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Now, this is my opinion, but I have decided to stick with the King James Version just because it is the closest to the original and because some verses in the other versions are slightly altered. I attended a Apostolic Pentecostal church last Sunday and they believe that salvation is earned through spirit and water (Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 2:38) and also repentance. I was always told that salvation is obtained through believing in Jesus Christ and asking for salvation. After reading those verses, I now believe baptism is in the process. They also believe that proof of the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues. I have mixed feelings on that because I have been told that speaking in tongues is ONE of the gifts of the Holy Ghost (as is wisdom, mercy, discernment, etc), but they believe that speaking in tongues is evidence and they only evidence of the Holy Ghost.
1. What are your thoughts on tongues?
2. Which denominations use the KJ version and also believe that salvation is earned through water and spirit (other then Pentecostal)? I know Baptists use the KJ, but not sure about their views on salvation. I would like to attend a church who uses the KJ and believes in salvation through spirit and water because of the above verses.
3. Do you believe salvation can be lost? I think that I do and I know Pentecostals do as well.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I didn't see anything you said as rambling Nick. I think what you said will be very useful as our sis continues this race set before her. Actually, she has already said that they have helped already. So, continue forward waving that sword brother.
Stay wrapped up tight in Him
--Tammy
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Permalink Reply by Colby on
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1. What are your thoughts on tongues?
It is one of several supernatural gifts of Holy Spirit, but not all believers speak in (or interpret) tongues (1Cor12:10,30). First Corinthians and the Book of Acts discuss the gift of tongues in detail. We must use discernment to distinguish between genuine manifestations of this gift and those that are not. The Bible warns us of false teachers, and those among them may allege that they have the "gift of tongues" as a way to mislead and confuse.
2. a) Which denominations use the KJ version?
I've heard it said that the best version (English translation) of the Bible is the one you will read. I happen to love the King James Bible for its beautiful Old English prose, and it was the first Bible I owned. For nearly 500 years, it has been held up as the standard of English language translations--preferred by many. However, its language has become increasingly outdated, as the English language has undergone great change. Many of the words it uses are no longer in use or have taken on different meanings today. For this reason, many find it difficult to read and understand the KJ Bible.
We are fortunate today to have many excellent English language translations available to choose from, in addition to the KJ Bible. These include the NIV, ESV, NASB, and NKJV, to name a few, as well as the NLT, which comes closer to being a paraphrase. I own copies of all them and a few more. In the liberal mainline churches, you are likely to find the NRSV in the pews. Why are there are so many English translations? Primarily because they take somewhat different yet valid approaches to translation. Think of a continuum ranging from word-to-word (literal) to thought-for-thought (dynamic equivalence) with each translation fitting somewhere along this spectrum, each meeting the needs of a particular audience and level of biblical literacy.
b) Which denominations believe in salvation through spirit and water?
Bottom line, I'm sure we can both agree on this point: What really matters is what the Bible says about baptism and salvation. Read the Bible carefully (not just selected verses) and see if, in its entirety, the Bible says that we are saved by faith or faith plus baptism. For example, take a look at Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 1:17, and Acts 16:30-31: "'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' And they said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.'"
Do you think that someone who came to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ but died on the way to their appointment to be baptized could still be saved?
Why (if baptism is essential to salvation) did the Apostle Paul say he was sent to preach the Gospel, not to baptize (1 Cor 1:17)?
3. Do you believe salvation can be lost?
What matters here, again, is what the Bible says. Does the Bible say that we earn our salvation and that we have to perform good deeds and observe God's laws in order to maintain it? If salvation can be lost, how can we say we have eternal life -- if it can be here today and gone tomorrow? The Bible says that salvation is by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, and that it is God's unmerited gift to us. Further, that at the time of conversion or regeneration, the Holy Spirit takes up residence in us, and we become new creations in Christ, being daily conformed to the image of Christ (sanctification). This can be lost? How could we ever know if we are truly saved and possess God's gift of eternal life? Does the Bible say we can be born again ... and again, and again, and again?
Yet, granted, each of us can probably think of many persons, past and present, who seem to have come to a genuine faith in Christ only later to fall away. Some eventually came back to faith; many did/do not. But what does that mean? Did they "lose their salvation" (because the Holy Spirit failed? They weren't give enough faith?), or that they never had a genuine rebirth? Not all who say Lord, Lord are truly saved, the Bible tells us. Many go through the motions or trappings of coming to faith, but I would submit never had a true conversion of the heart.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Kayla,
Regarding baptism, one of the AAG leaders, David Velasquez, posted this discussion and its replies are enlightening.
http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/how-important-is-water-bapt...
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Hi Kayla,
You've had a whole lot of excellent counsel in your quest here so far.
I'd like to coat-tail on to my brother Colby's recent post. It is my belief also, that water baptism (by immersion) is not essential to one's salvation. However, if we read a little further from Acts 16:31 (So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.").....and we move down to verse 33 -"And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized."
I was immersed upon repentance and my public confession of faith 45 years ago, because I wanted to have it done. No, I didn't need to.....neither did Jesus, before He started His ministry.
Kayla, I think of baptism as putting on a wedding ring upon marriage.....I'm proud of being married to my wife......and proud to belong to my Lord and Savior - Jesus. I Peter 3:21b alludes to this way of thinking.
I agree that our salvation cannot be lost. But, those that fall away (and people do) did not really and truly come to a saving relationship with the Lord to start with. A good reference to this thought is found in Jesus's parable about the sower in Matthew, Chapter 13.
Oh, I'm with Colby, and all the different Bible versions he has. My favorite is the N.ewA.mericanS.tandardB.ible, with the Hebrew and Greek dictionaries in the back part.
I'm not going to wish you good luck in your search.....because I don't believe in good or bad luck(period).
I just wish you God speed.........and Grace and Peace.
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Oppps, correction,
Make that reference in the Book of Acts 16:33....NOT 17:33.
Sorry.........
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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Kayla
I am sure you have heard many stories, here is one more. I was raised Catholic, when I was 15 in 1976 The Spirit Movement had been spreading for a few years by then. In the basement of a Catholic Church, after a few weeks of studying The Word. Priests and other adults who had gone through, The Spirit Movement also taught. Then they all got together each of us stood, accepted Jesus as Lord, then they all went to us and laid hands on us, we were Baptized in The Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Sadly not long after that event, The Church changed how they dealt with these things. My parents stayed ( may be left for a moment, than returned) I however left. I have seen many things now over the years. Do I believe in Praying in The Spirit? Yes. Do I believe everybody should, or is it the only evidence that one has been Baptized in The Spirit? No, I do not believe that way.
For King James I think other versions have studied the Greek and Hebrew more thoroughly. We have the option of many versions on Biblehub.com, even a updated version of King James. For me I believe more in The Spirit of The Word, than the letter of The Word.
Can salvation be lost? We can walk away, yes. Still, The Word tells us He will never leave or forsake us. We cannot earn Salvation, it is The Gift of gifts. Jesus bought and paid for our Salvation. As we are called and lead to receive The Salvation He Paid for, we may slip and fall, even turn at times. But, to turn away and never obey His Leading to get back on the path set before us, well that is the saddest decision one can make.
I believe in His Love, His Mercy, His Joy, His Wisdom, His Grace, His Power, I believe in coming to Him and asking for these things. I Pray in The Spirit 14 For if I pray in another language, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.l 15 What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with my understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you praise with the spirit, how will the uninformed person say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may very well be giving thanks, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in other languages more than all of you; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in another language. 1Cor 14:14-19 In many ways this sums up who I see all of this. I Pray in The Spirit a lot on my own. I do not think I am better than anyone who does not. I do not understand all the confusion, I never have. I can Pray in The Spirit and am lead in what I am Praying about. I can Pray with just langue others understand. I believe I am more effective as I Pray in The Spirit, yet I do not judge anyone who struggles in this area. I could go on, but I am sure you have read many opinions. It is your heart that you must follow, what you believe The Spirit is showing you.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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I attend a Pentecostal church. But I'm a Christian. I believe if you're truly saved, you cannot lose your salvation since Jesus assured us no one could snatch us from Him. That means NO ONE...not even ourselves. I am a member of my church simply because we are creatures created to belong, a need to belong, a need for family. Do you agree with everything your family members say or do? LOLOL I haven't agreed with people in my immediate family uhhhh, probably never. LOL And in the church family, there will be disagreements. It is how we handle those disagreements that will matter. And most of them aren't even worth having. Some beliefs we just keep within ourselves and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling...not with Aunt May, Cousin Lucy, Nephew Jeb and Grandpa Patrick!
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