Am I a WITCH?!?!?!?!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Colby on September 27, 2013 at 4:56pm

Kayla,

I was taken aback, actually shocked, by your pastor's reaction when he asked you why you continue to be hesitant about getting baptized.  It was unfounded, cruel, and incredibly inconsiderate for your pastor to jump to conclusions about your motives, accusing you of practicing in witchcraft.  It really gives me pause, causing me to question his judgment and discernment, that he would make such a serious and hurtful judgment about you.  If anything, this is likely to lead you to having further doubts, if not hostility toward Christ and the church, which is the last thing any of us want to see happen.

 

I understand and agree with the sensibility of your position that you don't feel it's right to be baptized as long as you continue to have lingering questions or doubts about placing your faith in Christ.  You are showing maturity and discernment here.  You understand the profound and deep significance of baptism, which outwardly symbolizes a person's decision to commit themselves to faith in God.  Be assured that my fervent hope is that in time your questions will be answered; that you will come to a deep and abiding faith in God and be imbued with the over-flowing grace of Christ, certain of your eternal destiny, in response to the calling and wooing of the Holy Spirit.

 

In the meantime, I urge you to leave this church immediately.  Don't even have any second thoughts about this.  You need to seek out a healthy and well-balanced church.  By that, I mean a church that affirms sound biblical teaching, where you'll be accepted as you are (although that's not where God intends to leave you), where you'll experience the love of Christ, where the pastor and others take a Christ-like approach toward answering your questions and a genuine interest in your spiritual growth.

 

Colby

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Permalink Reply by Sathish Kumar ( Dan) on September 27, 2013 at 5:04pm

Kayla ur pastor is lame , get out of that church God will lead u to a new one ,

You are a Beloved child of God

God Bless You

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Permalink Reply by Carla on September 27, 2013 at 7:44pm

Kayla,

I agree with what others have already said here.

This church does not sound like a safe place to ask your questions.  Questions are good.  When you do get baptised it will be the right time.  There's no hurry to rush into something you are not sure about.  Jesus isn't looking for converts.....He's looking for people who are sold-out on-fire in love with Him, ready to give up your life for Him and His purposes... It is important to 'count the cost.'  You already are in a good starting place as you seem to understand that this is not something to enter into lightly.

 

Blessings, Carla

 

What does it mean to count the  cost’ (Luke 14:28)?"

Answer: In Luke 14, Jesus lays out the  terms of discipleship. There were great crowds following Him. Everyone loved the  miracles, healing, and free food. Jesus was cool, the talk of the town, and the  latest fad. But He knew their hearts. He knew they desired the benefits of what  He did rather than an understanding of who He was. They loved His  gifts, not the life He was calling them to. So He explained what it takes to be  one of His followers:

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own  father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even  his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and  come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a  tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to  complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish,  all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not  able to finish.’ Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will  not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet  him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is  yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So  therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my  disciple" (Luke  14:26-33).

Jesus said a lot in those simple illustrations. He  quickly put an end to the idea that He offered some kind of welfare program.  Although the gift of eternal life is free to anyone who asks (John 3:16), the asking requires a transfer of ownership  (Luke 9:23; Galatians 5:24).  “Counting the cost” means recognizing and agreeing to some terms first. In  following Christ, we cannot simply follow our own inclinations. We cannot follow  Him and the world's way at the same time (Matthew  7:13-14). Following Him may mean we lose relationships, dreams, material  things, or even our lives.

Those who are following Jesus simply for what  they can get won't stick around when the going gets tough. When God's way  conflicts with our way, we will feel betrayed by the shallow, me-first faith we  have bought into. If we have not counted the cost of being His child, we will  turn away at the threat of sacrifice and find something else to gratify our  selfish desires (cf. Mark 4:5, 16-17). In Jesus’ earthly  ministry, there came a time when the free food stopped and public opinion turned  ugly. The cheering crowds became jeering crowds. And Jesus knew ahead of time  that would happen.

Jesus ended His description of the cost of  discipleship with a breathtaking statement: "Any one of you who does not  renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:33).  “Renouncing” may mean we give up something physically, but more often it means  we let go emotionally so that what we possess no longer possesses us. When we  become one of His, we cannot continue to belong to this world (1 John 2:15-17). We must  make a choice, for we cannot serve both God and Mammon (Matthew 6:24). The rich  young ruler, when confronted with that choice, turned his back on Jesus (Luke 18:18-25).

Suppose you learned that you had been given an all-expense-paid condo on a  beach in Tahiti, complete with airfare, a car, food, and a maid. You could brag  about your new lifestyle, plan for it, and dream about it. But until you pack up  and leave your current home, the new life is never really yours. You cannot live  in Tahiti and your current hometown at the same time.  Many people approach  Christianity the same way. They love the idea of eternal life, escaping hell,  and having Jesus at their beck and call. But they are not willing to leave the  life they now live. Their desires, lifestyle, and sinful habits are too precious  to them. Their lives may exhibit a token change—starting to attend church or  giving up a major sin—but they want to retain ownership of everything else.  Jesus is speaking in Luke 14 to those with that mindset.

We cannot earn  salvation by lifestyle change or any other good deed (Ephesians 2:8-9). But  when we choose to follow Christ, we are releasing control of our lives. When  Jesus is in control, pure living results (1 John  3:4-10; 2  Corinthians 5:17). In Jesus’ parable of the  sower, it was only the soil that allowed the seed to put down roots and bear  fruit that was called “good.” If we are going to be disciples of Christ, we must  first count the cost of following Him.

Recommended  Resource: True Discipleship: The Art of Following Jesus by John  Koessler.

Read more:  http://www.gotquestions.org/count-the-cost.html#ixzz2g9D5x6Wu

 

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Permalink Reply by Kayla on September 27, 2013 at 9:11pm

 Thank you everyone for the support. It means a lot. I'll just  post the convo to make sure I'm not being overly sensitive. I'll see what you have to say.

Pastor:

Look at the 1st 7 words you just wrote: "I'm not so sure that I trust God..." There's the problem.

Also a problem is that you STILL haven't been baptized. You seem to be resisting God on that, too.

Obeying God seems to be hard for you. But if the Holy Spirit lives in you, it should be easy.

At least most of the time - unless there is a stronghold in your life.

Me:

Do I have to be baptized to go to Heaven?

 

Pastor:

You're avoiding the issue.

The Bible commands you to be baptized. Therefore, you should eagerly desire to do it.

If you don't, there's a problem.

Me:

I guess prior churches that I have attended, they didn't put an emphasis on being baptized.

Pastor:

You're still avoiding the issue. lol

You don't want to trust God about your looks. You don't want to obey God about baptism. Your problem seems to be in obeying God.

Trusting & obeying God.

Me:

Trusting for sure.

 

Pastor:

Obeying for sure too. Because the Bible commands you to trust & obey him. So when we fail to trust him & resist being baptized, we are disobedient, period. Not much more to it than that. So, I have to ask you why? Why is obeying God so hard for you?

Me:

I don't think I'd feel anything getting baptized and I don't think it would mean anything when I don't trust God and at times, am still skeptical of some things. Plus, I always thought that being baptized is symbolic, not a requirement. If it's a sin or disappointment to God not to be baptized just like sin is, I'm still going to Heaven if I sin so why wouldn't I if I didn't get baptized? I get confused with all the laws and rules of the Bible.

Pastor:

You're getting lost in your own reasoning. It's not complicated. Obey God or don't obey God. If you won't obey him & be baptized, I'd ask myself: Do I really have saving faith in Jesus, ? if I refuse to be baptized?

Food for thought.

Love you.

Me:

I'll get baptized. I just don't feel like it would be genuine. It's like standing at the alter and getting married to someone I don't love. I''m still navigating my way through Christianity and God and I don't feel strong or 100% convinced so I feel like getting baptized wouldn't feel real. I will definitely keep it in the back of my mind and continue seeking God to answer some of my questions. I do attend Bible study on Tuesday nights.

Pastor:

I hear you & accept you right where you are. You know that! lol But based on what you are telling me, I'd say you are still in a state of unbelief or being an unbeliever who has not yet decided whether she really wants to follow Jesus. If that's the case, then we should approach this from the stand point that you are not yet a Christian & take it from there. What do you think?

Me:

I was having a "debate" with an atheist the other night and I couldn't back up my points very well. That right there shows that I'm not strong.

Pastor:

I am happy to answer any of your questions anytime. I love you in the Lord deeply, as I do all my flock.

 Me:

I believe in an intellectual designer, but I'm uncertain if it's Jesus Christ. I want it to be Jesus Christ because I like what I know about Him. So, if I would believe it was Jesus Christ, I would choose to follow.

If that makes sense.

Pastor:

Sure. Makes sense. But it tells me you haven't converted to Jesus yet. Am I right? Rather, you are on the journey toward him? Right?

Me:

That's why I'm attending church, I'm on allaboutgod.net, and I have Bible study on Tuesday nights with my friend and her friend. I'm trying to figure all of this out.

Pastor:

I'm happy to have a Bible study with you.

Getting God's word open is critical to answering your questions.

Me:

I've been saved when I was a teen and a child....Twice. But, it didn't mean anything because I wasn't entirely convinced of His existence. That's why I'm not ready to be baptized. It wouldn't really mean anything to me other than wet hair.

Yeah, I was reading John.

Pastor:

So, you are unconverted?

At this point.

Me:

Maybe I'm an agnostic with an interest in Christianity. I was brought up in a Christian home. My mom took me to church for years and I even went to Christian school.

I want Jesus to be real.

Pastor:

How long have you been involved in witchcraft?

Me:

I never felt close to God. I never felt anything.

Lol I'm not involved in witchcraft. Why do you think that?

Or is that a different meaning for something else? 

Pastor:

You keep saying you don't feel anything. Then you say you were saved twice but it didn't mean anything. All this points to demonic blocking of your ability to receive the gospel. This points to involvement in witchcraft - either knowingly or unknowingly to put you in touch with demons that are blocking you from believing in & receiving Christ.

Me:

How can I unknowingly be involved? I never practiced anything...

Can I be under a spell from someone? 

Pastor:

By the way, most Satanists & witches deny that they are Satanists & witches at first. Not saying that's the case with you.

There are a thousand ways to allow demons in. I'd have to talk to you face to face to try to find out if that's the case - and I believe it very well could be.

AND the convo continues. I'm agreeing to  meet him Sunday after the service.

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Permalink Reply by Colby on September 27, 2013 at 11:06pm

Kayla,

You've read and pondered the reactions and advice of those who responded to your original post, which you've graciously acknowledged.  The unanimous advice: your pastor's accusatory question was unprofessional and utterly inconsiderate, and that you should quit that church.

But, you haven't shared your reactions--except to ask us to comment on the possibility that you were "overly sensitive" in reacting to your pastor's accusation of being a witch.

Accordingly, you posted an amazingly detailed transcript based on your recollection of the discussion you had with your pastor.  

Now you're asking us to give an opinion as to whether or not you're being "overly sensitive."

Also, you shared with us, contrary to the advice given, that you've agreed to meet with your pastor on Sunday after the worship service.  The purpose of this meeting, if I understand correctly: to further explore the possibility raised by your pastor that you might be possessed by, or otherwise under the influence of, demons operating without your knowledge and awareness.  The only way he can determine this, you said, is by a face-to-face meeting.  Fine.  But wait, you already had such a meeting.  Did or did he not determine demons were present?  Why would he have concluded that you've been and continue to be involved in witchcraft?

Before I would consider revising or adding to my earlier response, I would prefer to hear more from you about the responses already posted, the questions I am raising here, and if you've already made up your mind about Sunday, well, maybe we should just wait until that meeting happens before commenting any further.

As for me, having now read your discussion transcript, I don't feel your reaction to being accused of witchcraft (no laughing matter) was "overly sensitive."  I know I sometimes I over-react to comments and criticisms that are directed at me--don't we all?  But here, it wasn't just an insensitive remark or careless slip of the tongue.  Your pastor has leveled a serious accusation that you are, knowingly, a witch, or unknowingly, possessed by/under the influence of demons.  Why?  On what basis?  Because you have persistent doubts and questions about committing yourself to faith in Christ?

If you do meet with your pastor on Sunday, which it appears you've decided to do,  and he concludes that you are possessed by, or are otherwise under the influence of demons, do you think your reaction will be any different to having been accused of being involved in witchcraft?  If so, what will that prove?  If he concludes your not demon possessed, does that leave you as being a witch?  I'm not clear just what this meeting will accomplish. 

Please know that I'm praying for you in this difficult and troubling situation.  I appreciate your frankness, openness and willingness to share your personal concerns about your faith with us, the AAG community.  You have my fullest sympathy.  I'm hopeful and confident that the Lord will guide and comfort you, leading you to the truth, causing you to embrace Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and to receive abundant new life.  Stay strong.

Your turn.

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Permalink Reply by Kayla on September 28, 2013 at 5:29am

 I'm sorry that I didn't elaborate  more  before posting this convo. This is the actual convo that I cut and paste.  This wasn't recollected from memory, just to make that clear. I'm not too good at reiterating conversations. This was all said through instant message. He wants to meet with me in person so he can discern what's going on. I agreed  because I feel  like I'd look  guilty if I  backed out.

My reaction, at first, was laughter. I've never been asked that and it caught me off guard so I laughed to myself (not to him). And then  shortly after, I became annoyed. My ex bf was a baptist and we would get into fights all of the time because he said that my Bible (the NIV, NLT) is wrong and the non-denominational churches I attend (before I attended the one I attend now) practice this and that and it's all wrong. He would make me feel like  I'm following a false religion or trying to follow a false religion and it hurt me for some reason. He would never attend the  church I attended before him to see for himself, which I found odd. He just held that opinion and there was no way around it. So, now when my pastor  thinks I'm a possible witch or Satanist because I question things or am still exploring, I'm ultra sensitive to  it  because of  how my ex made me feel at times. I feel like every step I take,  I'm doing  something wrong or something is wrong with me for feeling or not feeling a certain way.  I felt like I had to be defensive with my ex, now I have to defend myself with my pastor, or so I feel. I 100% understand why a lot of people are turned off by religion. My only defense is: it's not God,  it's the people. And I'm not going to give up. I'm just annoyed. And definitely reconsidering  leaving.  I  know that everyone here will be honest and I value what everyone has to say. Also, everyone's responses have validated how I feel. I wanted to post the convo to make sure I wasn't overreacting. 

My friend attends the same church and she says he's human and he's fallible.  Yes, true, but he's also really radical and jumping to assumptions without questioning me first. Like Amanda said, how did he connect the dots to form a conclusion that I'm  into witchcraft?

Does anyone know a website that I can search for churches in my area according to denomination or whatever?

Thank you again!

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on September 28, 2013 at 7:47pm

Kayla,

From the following statements made by the pastor that you’ve quoted, I now see how he has connected the dots, and my mind hasn’t changed about him and I’m very disappointed in him.

Pastor:
You keep saying you don't feel anything. Then you say you were saved twice but it didn't mean anything. All this points to demonic blocking of your ability to receive the gospel. This points to involvement in witchcraft - either knowingly or unknowingly to put you in touch with demons that are blocking you from believing in & receiving Christ.

The connections are very irrational, especially how witchcraft gets thrown into the mix. I’m sure witchcraft opens the doorway to demons, but if there are thousands of ways that the door way can be opened, then witchcraft would be only one way, so how is he determining that, if demons are what is blocking you from believing in and receiving Christ, the other thousands of ways are ruled out in your case, and if involvement in witchcraft can happen unknowingly, then how can anyone, including him, ever really know if they aren’t involved in it?

 

I think people involved in it surely know! It's what they want. It's a choice. IMO

 

God is a jealous God and yes God punishes the wicked and disciplines the saved and would allow demonic oppression of His children and does allow demonic possession of the wicked. God is Sovereign, and as I understand it, anyone seeking Jesus and especially anyone wanting to receive Jesus, are given the power to become the children of God.

Jesus said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” John 6:37, KJV.

No demon or human has the ability to stop God from saving a person, and, according to this verse, no demon or human is able to block or keep someone from being saved, simply because Jesus said, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me.”

Jesus not only speaks truth but is Truth!

God is Sovereign and I believe God wouldn’t allow demons to block anyone’s ability who is seeking Jesus (coming to Him) to receive the gospel, nor would God allow demons to block anyone coming to Jesus from believing and receiving Christ.

If anyone will receive Jesus, then God will save him or her.

John 1:11-12
King James Version (KJV)
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

It just isn’t scriptural, unless I’m misunderstanding these verses.

I suppose it’s possible for demons and humans to try but they won’t be successful. Satan doesn’t want anyone to hear the truth.

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17, KJV).

God will open the eyes, ears, and hearts of those who are seeking Christ. This is my belief. It happens at different rates for different people because each one’s relationship with God is personal and each one of us is unique. Some are just beginning to seek but are doing it without heart. Some are seeking half-heartedly. When one is able to seek Him with all their heart, He will be found.

 

I think maybe you might have half a heart (because of hurts from your past and the defense mechanisms you are using for coping) -- but I’m just guessing. Yet, there’s no doubt that you are seeking. That’s what I think anyway. I think any more dialogue with this pastor will only be hurtful to you.

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Permalink Reply by Kayla on September 30, 2013 at 1:19pm

I agree. Thank you.

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on September 28, 2013 at 6:31am

I'm going to throw this out there without praying or looking into it deeper but at first, the man seems to be loving & concerned but then he throws that wrench in there out of the blue. It blew me away.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on September 28, 2013 at 9:52am

Kayla,

Thank you for giving some context to this discussion.  I'm posting a discussion of yours from a couple years ago... I urge you to read through it and seriously consider if you have possibly opened a door which you may not be aware of.

 

Here's the link:  http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/paranormal-investigator

 

Posting in Love, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Colby on September 28, 2013 at 10:54am

Kayla,

        The link Carla posted to "Paranormal Investigator,"  a discussion you initiated in 2011, which I previously wasn't aware of, does tie-in with and provides additional context that sheds light on the current discussion.  

        I would urge you, as Carla wisely advises, to "read it through and seriously consider if you have possibly opened a door, which you may not be aware of."

Faith, hope and love in Christ,

Colby 

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Permalink Reply by Kayla on September 28, 2013 at 11:44am

Yes, I am fascinated with the paranormal, but I'm not apart of any groups and I don't participate in anything.

And he doesn't know about that so I still have no idea how he jumped to that conclusion.

You can't help what you're fascinated with. Once again, I do not participate in anything.

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