Loss of Salvation is Possible

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on May 2, 2014 at 8:35pm

The assumption regarding the mark of the beasts is that the church would have to still be here at that time, but it is highly probable that the church will have already been raptured by this time and the choice is for those who are left behind.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 3, 2014 at 5:58am

For those who fear Satan's mark, I would like to submit a verse:

Eph 1:11-14

11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession — to the praise of his glory. NIV

We are not the first to have believed but we are most certainly included in those who have also believed. We are included in Christ when we believed in Him. Having believed we were given this glorious mark of God, His Holy Spirit who is given to us guaranteeing our our inheritance in Christ. This is something we can count on. When you are sealed by God, it is over. 

All should be baptized once having received this eternal blessing. It is a wonderful testimony that we have believed in and received Christ as our Savior. However, all the work has been done by God. He is our eternal Father and we become worshipers. 

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Permalink Reply by Seek on August 3, 2014 at 1:15pm

Amen Roy!  How can the mark (seal) of the beast override the seal of the Holy Spirit which is a guarantee of our inheritance? 

Love ya Chip, but if people have to go around fearing they lose what was freely given all the time, then it was never a free gift and it puts one in the position of feeling they have to "work" to keep their salvation.  It's the old time Church of God...hellfire and brimstone the fear of God into em.  And that never ever did keep people.  They turned to Christ because they were afraid, not out of respect or a desire for His ways.  So they were never truly repentant but only wanting to escape His wrath. 

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Permalink Reply by Mary O on July 28, 2014 at 11:35am

I agree. I think the church will have been raptured.  It is possible the groundwork is being laid for the mark. The little computer chips have my vote, but another possible is the UPC codes like a tatoo. I was thinking maybe we can see some of this unfolding and realize the Lord is close to returning.

Some skeptics or unbelievers think the Lord isn't coming back.  All I can say is...Oh yes He is.   :-)

Love,

Mary

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Permalink Reply by Seek on August 3, 2014 at 1:24pm

I see us now as Ninevah.  People have been touting the signs of God's coming since the dawn of the resurrection.  But Ninevah too was marked for destruction.  Yet they repented and were spared.  And since none know the hour or the day, I cannot make a guarantee, but in my mind it's a safe bet He'll show up when we LEAST expect it and not when we're thinking He'll be here right around the corner.  Like the servants whose master arrived when they least expected it and didn't find his house in order. 

We're to KEEP prepared for His return.  Not look for the return and then prepare.  We keep prepared because of our love and respect, not because of our fright. 

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 3, 2014 at 5:44am

One also has to assume that this mark is neither symbolic or territorial. Is the beast a symbolical figure or will we really see a dragon standing on a shore of a sea anointing a beast or two beasts with feet of a bear, appearance of a leopard, seven heads, ten crowns or one with two horns, etc., etc. Revelation is so full of symbolism (which all is true, by the way) that it is completely impossible to predict what it is saying. It is a wonderful testimony of God's completed victory over the enemy of our souls which occurs when we believe. 

Revelation could represent your own personal battle with the enemy as we struggle to determine whether we will receive the mark of God or the mark of Satan. The mark of God is eternal and once received can never be removed. Books could be written about this "mark of the beast." Testimonies abound of mankind's struggles between that which is evil and that which is good. However, Jesus came to set us free from this struggle and to give us life. Those whose name are written in that Book of Life will be protected from this terrible mark of Satan. 

When we humbly kneel before our Maker recognizing the terribleness of our sin and the majesty of the Sacrifice of Christ, we are given this mark of God upon our foreheads. This mark will protect us from that terrible mark of Satan. We need not live in fear of this mark spoken of in Revelation 13 as it only pertains to those who do not have the mark of God. 

Is God able to save completely those who come to Him? Was Revelation written to frighten me into submission or ignite me into worship? I believe the latter is true. I believe Revelation is a wonderful scenario of the victory of Christ over the evil of Satan. We can come to Him in full confidence that the battle is already won and our salvation is perfected in Him. Whether it is of a future event or historical event does not matter. It is written and it is done. We are those who have inherited the benefits of that victory. The beast is already overthrown by the power of His name. We who have believed have receive God's mark and are no longer subject to the mark of Satan. 

We come to Him humbly recognizing our weak sinful human nature. We see His perfect sacrifice and receive it by faith. Through this action all of Christ's works are accredited to us and we place our trust in His works and not in our own. Those whose trust is in the Lamb of God need not fear this mark. That mark is given to those who reject the Lamb. 

We do not need to live in fear of this mark. Revelation is already written and the victory is already won. The Revelation of Jesus Christ will set us free from the fear of death. It is a glorious story of our great Savior's victory over the dragon. He has won and as a result we who have trusted in Him have also won. 

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on May 3, 2014 at 9:17am

Roy,

You wrote: "We come to Him humbly recognizing our weak sinful human nature. We see His perfect sacrifice and receive it by faith. Through this action all of Christ's works are accredited to us and we place our trust in His works and not in our own."

Why is it so difficult to believe it really is this simple?

Jesus said, "Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you" John 15:3 ESV.

Aren't those words for us, too, and not just the ones who were present with Him on that day?

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 3, 2014 at 9:45am

Yes, amen Amanda, we are made clean by His Word. We are not made clean by our own actions but by His. We receive His Word by faith and that is not even of ourselves. I was weak and useless and He gave me faith to believe in Him. I was trying to do it on my own. I wanted to be worthy but I knew I wasn't even close. I wanted to succeed but recognized the impossibility. I gave up and asked Him to do it for me and He did. When Chip wrote of the mark, the whole Book excites me. I see victory in this Letter from God to our hearts. He wants us to see the victory of the Lamb over the dragon. He wants us to see our God coming to us on a white horse with that sword coming out of His mouth. He will completely destroy all demons, dragons, beasts that wage war against us. He has already won the victory but that victory can be applied to our hearts by faith. We need to see a victorious Christ on a white horse with an entire army following Him and not a weak lord that cannot save those who come to him. I would have given up. You would have given up. He was facing all the demons, dragons and beasts of hell and He won. He did not give up. He is our victorious Lord. He can save completely those who come to Him. We need to get our eyes off of our weak selves who do not have the power to win and onto Him Who has already won. He is my conquering Savior. He is my Rider on the white horse who destroyed all the enemies of my soul and gave me eternal life. I worship Him.

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Permalink Reply by Seek on August 3, 2014 at 1:27pm

One also has to assume that this mark is neither symbolic or territorial. Is the beast a symbolical figure or will we really see a dragon standing on a shore of a sea anointing a beast or two beasts with feet of a bear, appearance of a leopard, seven heads, ten crowns or one with two horns, etc., etc.

Exactly.  Jesus spoke in parables and not literal much of the time.  But people have long since latched onto this literal version of the beast and have never thought it could be completely different than the picture they've formed in their minds based on a literal translation.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 3, 2014 at 6:40am

There are some who are waiting on His coming but for some He has already come. I remember forty years ago this summer as I fought or was being fought over in a great battle. It was the battle of faith. I had already come to the conclusion that I was not or would ever be good enough to receive God's glorious gift of life. A battle raged in my soul. The battle had become so intense that I resolved to quit eating or drinking anything nourishing until the battle was over. In this battle there were beasts, dragons and all kinds of enemies. Beasts appeared out of oceans and land attempting to place on me that mark where I would be identified with them. 

Finally, at the conclusion of the battle, a Rider on a white horse appeared and slew all the enemies of my soul. He is called faithful and true. He is my King of kings and Lord of lords. He is my total and complete victory over all that might hinder me from receiving God's glorious gift. 

We all must fight this battle of faith. But when we see that Rider on that white horse, the battle is over. Jesus is our Warrior. He is the One that brings us complete victory. He is the Word of God and He has come. When He came His eyes were like blazing fire. He came with justice in His hand. He came to vindicate all those who were God's children. He made war with the enemy of their soul and He won completely. 

There is a future coming to those who have refused Him. But for us, He has already come and He has already won. When He came for me, I knew that from that day forward, I would always be His. 

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Permalink Reply by Jenny on July 28, 2014 at 10:49am

Roy, 

Thanks for sharing this. 

That was forty years ago, and my question is, have there been any battles of faith since then?

I seem to have a battle of faith every 6 months or so. Battles to the point where I'm sure I'm doomed. But they always end in my looking to Christ in simple faith, which is so simple, yet in the battle it seems impossible. 

I'm tired of the battles and would really love to have them over with, but again I battled through the night last night. It's scary- my faith is so dim, and I feel my old self coming back with so much power. I sin so much, I'm dissatisfied and grumbling, just like the Israelites in the wilderness. And then the fear- that I'm just like them- God has sworn in His wrath I will not enter His rest. And then a glimmer of hope- look to Jesus! it seems impossible... but with God all things are possible... and so on. 

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on July 29, 2014 at 4:54pm

Hi Jenny,

The battle for the faith is over. I had a wife and three kids at the time. Since then I was given two more children and to date 15 grandkids. The issue of salvation was settled for me during that battle forty years ago. My battle was understanding who I was in Christ. To that point I felt I had to achieve certain victories before I belonged to Him. I felt that if I were not able to accomplish certain things I would be lost. I believed my salvation was conditional upon what I could do. During that battle which took about ten days for me, I came to the understanding that it had nothing to do with what I could do but everything to do about what He had already done for me. It was the first time in my life that I realized that He had saved me by grace through faith plus nothing else. It was at that point that I no longer put trust in myself for salvation but in Him alone. It was at that point that I realized that salvation was absolutely free. I knew He had paid the full price and that the gift was now mine forever. Up to this point I was miserable. 

Since then I have had many down points where I knew I had failed Him. However, I have really never doubted my salvation. I began to work even harder for Him but the pressure of needing to be successful was gone. I was no longer working to make heaven. I do want to please Him but the fear of being cast away is gone. 

Perfect love drives away fear. There is no fear in love. It seems to me that the battle you are fighting has to do with how much success you are having living for Him. The command that God has for you is to put your trust in Him and not in yourself. The Israelites could not enter because they did not believe. It was not due to their failures which were many. Always look to Christ in simple faith even during the times of your failures. He will be with you during your successes and during your failures as well. His love is not conditional upon how successful your are at the time. He loves you because you belong to Him. You are His responsibility. Do not be guilty of taking on His responsibilities. He came to get you home. He will not fail. He will never fail. You will fail over and over again. He will never fail. Trust always in Him and not in yourself. 

Not everyone agrees with this concept. Some do believe as I used to that our salvation is conditional on a successful lifestyle. It is not. Jesus came to save me and get me successfully home with Him. I always live to serve Him. I am bound by His grace. I do not live in the fear of being cast away. I have shifted my focus off of myself and onto Him. It works much better. Put your complete trust in Him. He is completely able. He has already forgiven you of all your sin. 

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