All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Trinity
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Morning Scribe D'Nucov, stalwart soldier of the King of Kings.
When reading the comments on the Diety of Christ, it becomes obvious that most have a very poor or little understanding of who God really is. They are inclined to, as the song goes: "Put him in a box, tie him with a ribbon and throw him in the deep blue sea" when evaluating him with whom they believe God should be.
On a simple issue like marriage and death, the people of Jesus' day had to be corrected: "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Mat 22:29. This Jesus did when people of His day made false statements. Today people still continue to bring God down to their level and foolishly describe him according the gospel of Joe Soap, chapter 4 verse 12.
I will not go into all the proof verses that prove that Jesus is, was and always will be God, except for one verse which simply shows that those who reject the divinity of Christ are not Blessed and I would add that their faith is in fact doubtful and their salvation in jeopardy .
We have the acknowledgement of Thomas which in my mind closes any doubt, unless one is incapable of reasoning or arriving at a conclusion of the obvious.
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:28-29
Jesus by His very nature, would have corrected Thomas if Thomas had foolishly or incorrectly addressed Him as his Lord and God. In fact if Jesus was not God and said nothing to correct Thomas, Jesus would be guilty of making Himself equal with God if He was not.......
Therefore, ALL who are adamant and wish to lay claim that Jesus is not Lord and God, must then accuse Jesus as guilty of acknowledging a false identity when He allowed Thomas to address Him as Lord and God, without correcting him.
Sadly should they continue to reject the deity of Christ despite the Fact that Jesus accepted Thomas' acknowledgement of who He really is, then they must also accept the responsibility of accusing Jesus of accepting a false identity and the worship that should have gone to God alone.
Should they by chance come across 2Cor 5:21 where we are told that Jesus was sinless, they would realize that Jesus who is God, had no no need to correct Thomas who was simply telling the truth.
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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I get you. I was jabbing you a bit there, too. Sorry that my humor just came across as sarcastic. So, let's consider what you have said:
>>an example to highlight what appears to be an absurdity in logic
So, just at the point when the idea of the supernatural seemed to be absurd, science began to bump into discoveries and theories that tell us there are indeed more dimensions to the universe than could be understood before. In other words, there is a supernatural nature to the world, one that we cannot directly experience by our 5 senses. Yet, to the 19th century man, that seemed absurd. However it is science and not religion that has concluded this to be true.
The problem of considering this to be an "absurdity in logic" as you have said, is that you can only say that if you have a perfect logical view of all things. You and I both know that we do not.
Let me give you an example:
Let's say that Arian has an opinion that he could get high enough to see the whole of all the surface of the earth. His arguments for that would only hold water with those who believed that the earth was ultimately (and entirely) flat. But, Athanasius is convinced the earth is round, so he says it is not possible because evidence of a sphere is all around and throughout. You and I, with limited knowledge may consider Arian to be wise and Athanasius to be "illogical".
However, with more knowledge, we know that no one can ever get high enough to see the entire surface of the earth. You would have to be in at least two places simultanously because the earth is a sphere.
end of example.
So, you have people who want to put God into a box that we can understand from our finite (limited) frame of reference - where we can't see the full nature of God because we are in a limited universe. God simply declares that He is not to be defined or understood as what they are saying (they being the Arians of the world). God declares that He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, that each is God, in substance; yet not the same in person.
So, do we fully understand that? No. No mortal can. But, Jesus declares it to be true. So, you are faced with a dilemma: do you decide that you know more than Jesus, or do you decide to accept what Jesus has said and accept it by faith?
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Grazer, this line of questioning always goes around in the same circles. Jesus did not say "I am God!!". Because to do so would have been the opposite of the demonstration of humility he came to both demonstrate and prove. Jesus instead demonstrated his Divinity and Deity, by proving it out rather than talking about it.
As brother Ron said above, Jesus told the Scribe and Pharisees "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God". Mat 22:29
He continuously proved that he was incarnate Deity by his miracles; And, then he also proved it from the scriptures. I could make the case here, but have already done so on several occasions.
blessings,
~ Scribe
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Scribe, I love the way you answered this:
Grazer, this line of questioning always goes around in the same circles. Jesus did not say "I am God!!". Because to do so would have been the opposite of the demonstration of humility he came to both demonstrate and prove. Jesus instead demonstrated his Divinity and Deity, by proving it out rather than talking about it.
Amen and AMEN! Excellent response!
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Grazer, There are so many verses in scripture to tell us about the Deity of Christ.. Here's one example:
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1(A)In the beginning was (B)the Word, and the Word was (C)with God, and (D)the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.
3(E)All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4(F)In Him was life, and the life was (G)the Light of men.
5(H)The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.
What do you make of these verses?
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Grazer, we've run out of sub-comments... so i'm reposting here in answer to your questions. Fair enough, I will pull out my work on this and get some answers to you. There are plenty of places where we can derive this... and I'll do my best.
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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21 Now when all the people were baptized, and when cJesus also had been baptized and was praying, dthe heavens were opened, 22 and ethe Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and fa voice came from heaven, g“You are my beloved Son;3 with you I am well pleased.”4
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Grazer,
You asked: "Who, in the Bible, makes the claims that he was God?"
My input on this subject earlier was that Thomas made the claim when he addressed Jesus: "Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." Joh 20:28
If this was not true then Jesus would surely have corrected Thomas. Yet there was no denial.
Have patience with me as I repeat my statement from my previous blog: "In fact if Jesus was NOT God and said nothing to correct Thomas, Jesus would be guilty of allowing a false statement, to go unchallenged, especially when one realizes the confusion it would have created.
Finally Grazer, you speak of a need for time to get your thoughts in order concerning the Trinity. This discussion has been "Hammered" from all angles since 2009 with your good self involved. There is an old saying: "There is none so blind as those that will not see." Any further proof to this subject would simply be a repitition of that which has gone before.
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