What is Free Will?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 20, 2011 at 10:45am

Amanda,

I have no idea other than it seems He chooses the weak and so if you hear any boasting, it is because I am weak, despised, and lowly and for no other reason. I am boasting as you are that He is strong and perfect and that He has made us such in Him.

1 Cor 1:27-31
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things — and the things that are not — to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God — that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.   31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." NIV

I cannot begin to understand Him as He just tells me that His ways are not like mine and what I would consider the way to do things are not the way He does them. My only choice is to trust Him that He does everything right. However, I see no way to take any credit for my position in Him. If I take any credit, then I am doing a little boasting. My only boasting is in Him and in Him alone.

2 Cor 11:30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. NIV

I certainly am not one that has it figured out.

When you say your faith has been destroyed I want to encourage you to put full trust in Him that He is doing a work in you His glory to perform. Yes, we are very bad but His plans for us are very good and we will do good because He has ordained that.

I cannot understand why anyone would not want Him.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 20, 2011 at 2:37pm

Jesus came to get His sheep. I do not understand that but He says that His sheep know His voice. They come when He calls. You are not responsible for whatever happens in your extended family but you are more responsible for those you are training. Focus your eyes on those He has placed within your care and not on those He has not. Teach those He has given you influence over. Teach them the wonderful news of the Gospel. Those others are not your responsibility. He will then bring more into your path to teach. Be faithful in that which He has given you. Let Him worry about those He has not given you.

I know you love your sister and want more than anything for her to know Your Lord. That, however, is the work of the Holy Spirit. He may use someone other than you to reach her as she probably resents you doing that. Love her as she is and let God bring her to Him. Trust the Lord in everything you do.

I know you already know all this and I know how difficult it is to have loved ones that do not follow the Lord. Keep bombarding Him with your requests. You will do your sister more good by speaking to God about her than speaking to her about spiritual things. Again, I know you already know these things. I guess I am just encouraging you. You are responsible for those He has given you but not for those He has not.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 20, 2011 at 3:51pm

Amen.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 22, 2011 at 6:06am

Grazer,

Our minds will never comprehend the ways of God. That is an impossibility. It is much better to embrace Scripture and submit to His plan. While most are trying to grapple with understanding Him, others are accepting Him and getting the job done.When Scripture says:

Eph 1:4-6
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he  predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
NIV

You can argue with that, say it doesn't mean what it says or simply embrace it. Everything God does is right. Some things He does, however, don't seem right in our eyes because we are on a much lower level and do not understand all that is right. Would you destroy every human being on the face of the earth, including the babies even before they did anything that could be considered sinful? Of course not. But, He did. You might say that you don't believe that He really did that since it doesn't seem right in your eyes. He chose Jacob over Esau before either one had done anything right or wrong. Many of those human souls were wiped out before they committed one sin. Some were still in the womb but were killed. That kind of thing still happens today. You will never be able to explain that. We cannot explain pain, suffering, riches, poverty, good health, poor health, etc. Those things we simply work with. One person is born a slave while another person is born to a wealthy tycoon. Where is the fairness? Yet, God's Word is true. Election is an doctrine that I embrace but could never explain it. You do not have to answer for God but you do have to answer to Him. You can either embrace His Word or dismiss those parts that you don't agree with. You are trying to understand things that you will never understand. It is way above the intellect that He has given you. His ways are way above our understanding. If we could comprehend God then He wouldn't be God. You will never be God but you will understand better by and by. If God has called you to preach, you better start preaching. Just ask Jonah.

Blessings.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 22, 2011 at 1:02pm

Ama-

 

Roy's statement is perfectly fine and we do not need to be critical about each other all the time. We can relax knowing we are among family and give each other the courtesy and family love we all long for.

 

I appreciate every menber here and look forward to everyone’s comments. This is a very blessed community because we allow love to win above all else. There is nothing derogatory about speaking a truth obvious to most. The truth is that most of us are hearers and not doers and hence find ourselves in despondency instead of victory. God has given us freedom of Choice, He is always working through circumstances, even when we do not perceive him, yet we have real choices to make. We do have free will. We have a moral responsibility before God to believe the Word and act upon it to see the result He claims we will get when we obey.

 

He is not going to come to obey for us, though there are times He seems to infuse us with great hunger for himself, when we have asked for his help and when we have asked for a time of rest from the sin that so easily makes us fall. We have both realities working in our lives beloved. God is sanctifying us through the Spirit and energizing us to drive us to do His will and we must surrender to such a work. We are already positionally sanctified and justified.

 

Above all else let us love one another and think the best motives of each other.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 22, 2011 at 1:19pm

Grazer -

 

I like your post and will give you my thoughts on it later, but for now bro, i will tell you what i have learn in situations where i need to be 100% sure there is a plan.

 

I find that God is after teaching us to wait upon him to open doors as we live in obedience to his will, peace and joy. As we live free in those difficult times of uncertainty because we don't really know what is next etc... God seeks to mature us in the waiting on Him department. So He can get all the glory when the doors are open. That is what i have seen in my life and the life of almost all of God's people.

 

To wait upon the Lord is not an easy lesson to learn. it seems that we must try all we can before we say : Ok, Lord - I surrender, have your way in me...

 

I am happy to read that you are seeking confirmation that is the wise thing to do.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 22, 2011 at 3:58pm

So, just how much free will do we really have? So much was dictated in our lives long before we were born. So much is dictated based on your culture, family, country, year, climate, etc., etc., etc. I know some people with very good genetics and some with poor genetics. Some are born very healthy while others are born with handicaps that would depress the majority.

We certainly don't have any choices in any of the above but do seem to have some choice on other areas but still things are very much all planned out for us.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 26, 2011 at 8:23pm

Roy-

 

>>How much free will do we really have?

 

Enough to make us morally responsible creations before a living, holy, merciful, gracious and just God.  

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 26, 2011 at 7:17pm

Ama -

 

>>I study science. Just as a past time.

I do to sis, coolio. You must like Weird Science as well (The Movie hahaha).

 

>>Let’s say that the Universe works on predictable mathematical models. Then that would mean there is no room for free will.

 

There was a time that we thought that the universe followed predictable mathematical models and we know that there are laws that are ever dependable. We can even route a satellite to an exact position by centimeters using such laws. However quantum physics has taken the veil off another part of the universe, the most important one, the foundation of the universe is rule by what appears to us, as randomness and disorder. All known natural laws to us, up to now, break down and appear to be nonexistent, so there is room for free will. With God all things are possible.

 

>>So my question is this: where does that ability come from?

We are created in the image of the almighty sis. That ability comes from us bearing his image. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. Well, at least I am hahaha hahaha hahaha J/K you, we all are.

 

>>The uncertainty principle is a phrase used in quantum physics that tells us the Universe is governed by probability and not certainty.

 

Science falls short from the glory of God as all else in the universe does. One day when we are in the new heavens and new earth, we might do science just for fun and it will all make sense. Science is wrong in this case. The universe is not ruled by probability, but by God, who holds it in his hands.

 

>>If we were designed to be governed by our free will and if God’s will governs the Universe and everything, then how can free will exist at all?

 

Easy - God can make the impossible possible. it's impossible for us to understand how God's sovereignty and our ability to chose can coexist in the same space and time, but it does, for the word of God teaches us it does. God's mind is not finite like ours. I am perfectly ok with accepting that God has perfectly logical methods that for now our impossible for our finite minds can grasp or comprehend.

 

>>Are we are only doing what we were designed to do?

Nope and yes!

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 26, 2011 at 7:54pm

hahahaha i am totally gonna still those and use them hahaha

 

Too cool girl, too cool.

 

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 27, 2011 at 1:07pm

My question is this: did God write the Scripture to people who understand quantum physics or is it written to people who do not understand those concepts? If the understanding of those ideas are necessary to the understanding of Scripture then Scripture was written to only a few. The few would have the power to say what God intended for us to know.

I do not think that was God's intention. That is the thought process that has the church world in the mess it is today. Today, man thinks that only the astrophysicist can accurately describe the origin of the universe. Today, the church is scrambling trying to make Scripture agree with modern philosophy. All this is nonsense.

The red shift that has man thinking that the universe is expanding is what man sees today that actually happened when God first brought the universe into being. How do I know that? Because that is what God says. He says He stretched out the universe which, of course, would create a red shift. However, he did it quickly according to Him. He did it in days rather than billions of years. We can only define the universe by what we see today and not what we imagine was long ago. Only God was there and the only possible way for us to know that is to read His Word.

Since we cannot see the entire universe, we cannot possibly know all its laws. We can only see what is happening in our near proximity. We know what we can observe today. We don't know about yesterday except what God has spoken to us. No physical law can ever explain how we came into being. To attempt to understand theology through quantum mechanics is ____________.

All truth comes from God. God is truth and the Bible is that part of the truth that He has chosen to reveal to us. The astrophysicist cannot explain theology to us. He is struggling to understand even a minute part of the universe. The more we can see, the more we will understand. As the telescopes become stronger and stronger, our understanding will get better. Will we ever be able to see the edge of the universe? Assuming the universe is finite and not infinite, the answer would appear to be a yes. Will the exploration of the universe ever be able to explain to us the moral purpose of God? Absolutely not. The universe was only a means to an end. This universe will eventually pass away and a new one will be created. We, on the other hand, were created to be eternal. I am certainly glad that He has me in the palm of His hand. He saved me and made me His own. I do not believe I had anything to do with that.You may think I am boasting. On the contrary, I am humbled since He chooses the weak.

That's my take on the subject.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 27, 2011 at 1:46pm

Roy -

 

Well said beloved, we are in agreement. It is fun to contemplate all the stuff science comes up with, since much of it shows God's fingerprints all over the place haha, but we depend on God's word for our true understanding of the universe. 

 

Whenever science contradicts scripture - Guess who is wrong? Yeap! You got it, science loses every time.

 

Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge." Romans 3:4

 

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