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How can a good God send people to Hell
people, to hell.
Any ideas of what I can say?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Ronald,
If annihilation were true then the Word of God is in error. The Bible says the following:
MT 13:40
"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. (NIV)
MT 13:40
"Therefore just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. (NASB)
The text is speaking clearly of the end of the age. It mentions that lost will be thrown into the fiery furnace. It then goes on to state where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. There is conscious existence clearly revealed here in the fire.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Ronald on
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In Matthew 13:40-43, what did Jesus actually say and not say? We find nothing about anyone suffering for eternity, nor of their being conscious in the Bible hell (hades/sheol). Thus, any such thought has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into what Jesus said.
The weeds are false Christians; the harvest is indeed at the end of the age, and the weeds are then thrown into the fiery furnace of both the time of trouble and the judgment day that follows. There will indeed be much gnashing of teeth of those false Christians in the judgment day, which Jesus describes here as a "fiery furnace."
Fire can be used as a symbol of destruction, including purification, as the purifying of gold or silver, in which the dross is destroyed in order to purify the elements. (Numbers 31:32; Proverbs 25:4; Ezekiel 22:18; 1 Peter 1:7; Revelation 3:18) Thus, Jesus speaks of some in the "last day" (John 12:47,48) of judgment:
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy by your name, by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works?'
Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'
In the day of judgment, they are puzzled because they were not made kings and ruling with Jesus. Instead they find themselves being classed with the heathen, and entering into judgment with the world. Thus, that "day" will indeed be as a fire for them, bringing weeping and gnashing of teeth, but it does not mean that they will be eternally weeping and eternally gnashing their teeth.
We find further illustration of that day of judgment in Jesus' words concerning those to whom he preached, but who did not repent and receive him. He speaks of the "last day" judgment, and says: "But I say to you, that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." (Matthew 11:24) Though that day of judgment will be a time of blessing (Psalm 96; Psalm 98; Isaiah 2:2-4), it will also be a time of purging. It will be easier for the people of Sodom to repent than for those who saw and heard Jesus, yet opposed him. (Matthew 11:23) Those who rejected Jesus after he did many works in their midst will find it hard to repent in the judgment day due to the hardness of their hearts.
Many of these will be so hardened that they will refuse to repent, thus never coming to know God, in the sense of heart agreement with God (2 Thessalonians 1:7,8), while others will refuse to obey the Good News, the books that will then be opened. (2 Thessalonians 1:7,8; Revelation 20:12) It will be at the time when Yahweh's "judgments are in the earth", and the inhabitants of the world will be learning righteousness. (Isaiah 26:9) Many, however, in that new earth of righteouness (uprightness), will refuse to learn learn righteousness in that day (Isaiah 26:10; 2 Peter 3:13), and bring upon themselves, not the wrath of God as inherited from Adam (Romans 1:18-21; 5:19-21; 8:19-22; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22), but rather the wrath of God that results in the second death. (Revelation 21:8) Thus Jesus asks the religious Scribes and Pharisees who opposed him: "How shall you escape the judgment of Gehenna?" – the second death, for which there is no ransom sacrifice to ever be provided. (Matthew 23:33; Hebrews 10:26) In asking this, he was not saying that they were already under this condemnation and therefore could not escape from it, as many have supposed. Rather, he is just stating the difficulty they will have in the next age of overcoming their hypocrisy in the day of judgment. That some of this class can repent is shown to us by the apostle Paul, who at one time was Saul, a zealous Pharisee in opposing the early Christians. – Acts 8:1-3; 9:1-22; 22:3-17; 23:6.
In the case of these false Christians in the end of the age that Jesus speaks of as weeds (tares, KJV), they either live through the great tribulation into the time when Satan will have been abyssed (Revelation 20:3) and the knowledge of Yahweh begins to fill the earth (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:9), or else they will be raised in the "last day" resurrection of the unjust in order to judged "in that day." (John 5:28,29; 12:47,48) Either way, their being conscious in the fiery furnace is not due to being conscious while in sheol/hades, but rather due to their being conscious here on the earth when Yahweh comes, through Jesus, to judge the earth. -- Psalm 96; Psalm 98; Acts 17:31.
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Ronald,
In Matthew 13:40-43, what did Jesus actually say and not say? We find nothing about anyone suffering for eternity, nor of their being conscious in the Bible hell (hades/sheol). Thus, any such thought has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into what Jesus said.
You ignore the plain text and attempt to spiritualize it. Then you go off and attempt to rationalize and justify your spiritualized position.
The weeds are false Christians; the harvest is indeed at the end of the age, and the weeds are then thrown into the fiery furnace of both the time of trouble and the judgment day that follows. There will indeed be much gnashing of teeth of those false Christians in the judgment day, which Jesus describes here as a "fiery furnace."
In your view they are being thrown into the judgment day. Jesus clearly says they are thrown into the furnace.
Fire can be used as a symbol of destruction, including purification, as the purifying of gold or silver, in which the dross is destroyed in order to purify the elements. (Numbers 31:32; Proverbs 25:4; Ezekiel 22:18; 1 Peter 1:7; Revelation 3:18) Thus, Jesus speaks of some in the "last day" (John 12:47,48) of judgment:Fire can be used as a symbol of destruction or purification. Here in Matthew 13 Jesus does not mention only fire, but includes the furnace as a place. These people at the end of the age will be tossed into the furnace and in the furnace there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (conscious existence).
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy by your name, by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works?'
Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'
In the day of judgment, they are puzzled because they were not made kings and ruling with Jesus. Instead they find themselves being classed with the heathen, and entering into judgment with the world. Thus, that "day" will indeed be as a fire for them, bringing weeping and gnashing of teeth, but it does not mean that they will be eternally weeping and eternally gnashing their teeth.
You say that “Thus, that day will indeed be as fire to them.” This is your opinion being inserted to justify your POV. The Bible does not say what you are trying to make it say. That is called Eisegesis (Definition of Eisegesis: the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas).You have not explained the verse, but asserted only why you think it means something other than it says.
MT 13:40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
MT 13:47 "Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
These two portions reveal literally 3 basic things regarding this topic.
1) Time: End of the Age
2) Fiery Furnace: A specific place
3) Weeping and Gnashing of teeth: Conscious existence in that fiery furnace at the end of the age.
Your argument is lacking.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Stew on
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A good and holy and just God must judge all as part of His perfect plan set in motion before the beginning of time. The most amazing news is the opportunity to escape the judgement of Hell that we all deserve. Even the most "decent" of us by our human standards does not rise to the holy and perfect standard of God that allows us to be in His presence. The blood of Jesus is poured out as a free gift for us and it covers our sin. We must accept the gift. So many know about Jesus and his sacrifice, but they fail to accept the gift. To acknowledge that you are a sinner. To turn (repent) from your sin. And to ask for redemption from your sin.
So many don't ask the most important question. Where will I go at the end of my life? There are only two locations. Both are eternal. Forever in eternal torment, separated from God where there will be weeping and knashing of teeth, or forever in the loving presence of God.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Hello Steven,
I would also like to see how you have arrived at your conclusion that hell is a byproduct of Lucifer and that God did not create hell. Would you please explain to me what you mean by this:
>>...God could never have created hell. Hell is the byproduct of Lucifer because he walked away from the light of God.
Thank you friend
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Dear Steven.
>>First let’s agree we are talking about the same God.
I think we are talking about the same God, but we will see. :)
>>We agree Our God is Everlasting! We agree Our God is Holy and can never sin!
Yes!
>>We agree God Created this World we live in for Our Salvation, for us to be Saved from
damnation and hell!
This world was created by God according to His good pleasure. humans were created by God to inhabit it and subdue it.
Please bro explain to me what you mean by you saying that this world was created for our salvation? Where in the bible that it say that? Where does it say that the world was created for us to be save from damnation and hell?
Genesis 1: 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
>>We agree there are darkness, and then darkness and hell.
Darkness is simply the absence of light, it does not have an anthological identity in its self, thought the demonic is referred to as the forces of darkness at times.
>>Now, without dissecting the Holy Bible, The Word Of God, let’s proceed.
Steve this is the root of the problem and why our theology is not matching in some things - I firmly believe in backing everything we speak with bible verses and I encourage you to do the same.
In Heaven, Lucifer, One of God’s Angels, waged war against God.
>>In this darkness, Lucifer created his own hell, The first entity to go to dwell in hell.
Matthew 25:41 (King James Version)
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
God made hell for Satan and his followers.
>>Without the light of Gog there is darkness, and then there is darkness and hell.
What do you mean by this?
>>To date, lucifer has not repented.
Repentance is not an option for Satan- his end is written already. He will be cast into the lake of fire.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Steven,
The comment above: "I have friends who cannot believe in a God who sends decent people, maybe any
people, to hell." That is the whole point of this discussion..It was a question posted referring to a person who is lost. This question comes from someone who does not know the Lord.
Who is Jesus to you Steven?
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Permalink Reply by kristina on
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One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?
One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot. That's the way He made us--after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth McD on
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God says if we accept Jesus Christ in our hearts, we have ever lasting life with Him. If you never take Jesus in your heart, you won't go to heaven and have everlasting life. Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins.
Romans 10:9,10 "...If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
-If you know that God is knocking on your heart's door,ask Him to come into your heart.Hope this helped answer your question.
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Permalink Reply by Terry Duncan on
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If anyone wants to reject Christ it doesn't take much on an excuse.
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