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DOES ONE GOD MAKE A TRINITY?

I have been analyzing the concept of the trinity for some time. I went back to the roots of christianity. It seems that this concept was created over time. It was molded over a few hundred years and as time went on it seemed that we were giving in to the world instead of presenting truth.

 

Jesus said my father is a spirit being and many will be called to worship him in spirit and truth. Jesus said the words i speak i do not spreak on my own authority but the father who dwells in me he does the works. Jesus said, and this is eternal life that they may know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.It says there is one God and father who is above all through all and in you all. It says one God and father who all the heavens and earth is named.But where does it say trinity. The phrase isnt in the bible anywhere. It was a creation of man with the backing of lucifer. It was an attempt and succesfully presented to inject polytheism into christianity just as it has been injected into other religion.

 

God  is as the air within a balloon . The balloon is empty and has no shape or form. Once air is blown into the balloon it has substance and form. It has mass it takes up considerable space compared to its uninflated form.It is now filled with air. You cannot see air nor touch it though we know it exists. Now if we pop the balloon or let the air out the balloon goes back to its origional shape.God an invisible spirit being inhabits that which is not invisible manefesting himself through that which is able to be seen.

 

 God has shown me that he is the light and jesus is the lamp that the light is within. We if uninitiated believe the lamp is in fact the light but as we grow older we realize that the electricity is that which gives light. It the lamp is just the vessel that holds the electricity which becomes light. God has shown me that water can in fact take three forms. But it is still primarily called water. God has presented himself in three ways, the father in creation the son in redemption and the spirit in his church. These are all part of one God a spirit being. Each different charecteristics of one being,one mind, one consciousness. Just as a man can be a father a son and a brother. Each has different roles and different charecteistics but it doesnt make them three different persons with three different names.

 

God is as a cloud. The cloud is made up of millions of tiny droplets of water. It can break into smaller clouds or come together and make one large cloud again.  

 

Lucifer remember is a master of subltly. He needs to put idolatry within all religions because this is a major weapon against us obeying God.

 

The  concept presented here doesnt go against the concept of father son and holy spirit but allows a deeper understanding of God as his true person and only person a spirit being.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 11, 2011 at 12:28pm
hallelujah!!!! Love to you sis. Hey what is your name? kneelingB4Jesus is great, but what is a name i can use for you. :)
Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 11, 2011 at 11:12pm
Lovely name :) Heather . :)
Permalink Reply by Douglas A Pavone on February 11, 2011 at 6:57pm

I havent chimed in a long time but i agree as you will see in my post below of the concept of the father son and the holy spirit but in a different way.

First alot of the scriptures that you quoted refer to the word elohim and that is not the word that was origionally used.You can look at alot of if not all bibles in the foreward area and find quotations that refer to the proper name of God as Yahwey and how this was not used because of tradiotion. Some say Jahovah but this is not possible as there was no j in our alphabet until a few hundred years ago and this word was formed when the masorites translated the text around the 6th to the 10 th century and  replaced the vowels from the word YHWY with the vowels from elohim or adonai creating the wrong word YeHoWaH or Jehovah. 

The word elohim was a word that was put in by the Jews who didnt want to use the name of God. The genis 1 anlagogy is weak at best to state the trinity and is accepted best by a person who is a trinitarian. I will have to say i have a few brothers in the lord who have been hammering me on the trinity and have made some points that have  seemed to stick.

 Not withstanding God is one and he is a spirit being and that can attest to the fact that he is manefested in three ways or three persons if you will. but still be one God.

The real problem is that we believe our spirit being God looks like us this is how idolatry moved into the church.Our God is spirit he is above all through all and in us all.He cannot look like us he is not 5 foot ten inches tall with brown hair and brown eyes he is spirit. He  breathes stars for his sake.

This is a major problem i have with the trinitarian concept is opened the door for polytheism which is rampant in the catholic church and opened the door for a misunderstandiing as to who and what type of being our God is. It says he took the form of man because he didnt look like us he is spirit like the wind as Jesus said.

When we understand that God is spirit then we are less connected to the things of this earth and more connected to him and his spirt realm less materialistic and more like our lord and savior.

God bless you all

 

Permalink Reply by Karen Leon on February 23, 2011 at 6:26am

Douglas,

I did some research on the masorites.  They did put vowels to the Hebrew text, among other things to make it easier to read, but they were not the ones to put vowels to the name of God--JHVH, if you transliterate the Hewbrew letters.  

That JHVH is from Wikipedia, with the "j" translitterated from the Hebrew letter named "yod" that looks like a big apostrophe.  Other sources use YHVH, which transliterates the "yod" as a "y," which is definitely the more common usage/pronunciation of "yod."

This site does say that even though it is commonly believed that the vowels from adonai (tranliteration of the Hebrew word for Lord) were first noted in Latin texts in the 13th centuries, and believed to have been used from the late 1100's, there is evidence that it may have been in use by the 5th century.

This still would not prevent the Germans from having translated the name of God into their language, but it does mean they were not the first to put these vowels to the Hebrew letters for the name of God.  And it still doesn't prevent English speakers from using their German translation and pronouncing the name with a German accent.  After all, each language is going to pronounce things a little differently.  Yet it does mean that Jehovah was used in other languages before German as the name of God.

So it seems we were both incorrect with some of our knowledge and correct about other things.  I appreciate what you did to motivate me to check this out so that I could correct my errors in thinking and learn more.

Permalink Reply by Douglas A Pavone on February 11, 2011 at 7:17pm

 

They can be seperate and one, seperate enentities just as the arm is different from the leg our spirit being God is not as easily defined but that was what i was getting at when i first wrote this post as i wrote below the brain our father cannot feel our emotions without his hand as the holy spirit. 

God since has worked on me and showed me Jesus and has revealed the holy spirit to me but the confusion between Jesus and the holy spirit is still a grey area.I appreciate the bioler plate analorgies that have been used for melinia but myself personally when God speaks to me in that quiet voice to say who is communicating to me?

God is a spirit being is so foreign as to not be believed but it makes the whole father son holy spirit thing work and still have one God one spirit as one cloud ( hi roy) now this blows most peoples minds and gives them no real points of reference.But does that make it untrue because we cant understand it?

Permalink Reply by RoyW on February 11, 2011 at 7:37pm

Douglas,

The reason it is untrue is because these are concepts of a mind not substantiated in Scripture. Jesus is God our Savior. God cannot be created, conceived or developed. God is God. He is eternal. Jesus is the eternal God. These are claims that can very easily be established in Scripture. If it were God communicating with your spirit, it would be in complete agreement with Scripture. Jesus told us that His sheep would know His voice. I am concerned that you are not hearing His voice. Who is the Lord? He is the eternal God - the everlasting God. He was neither created or conceived even though He became a man that we might be redeemed from our hopeless sinful state. He gave up all those divine attributes which can be confusing until you read the whole story. The Scripture is very clear that He Who was God in the beginning, became a man and lived among us. We are a most blessed people. Satan will do all he can to attempt to distort the person of our Savior God. If he can get us just a little off track he will have considered his work successful. I again encourage you to seek out a pastor that can help you through this crisis. I only mention this because I feel you are at a very dangerous point. I at first thought you were on here to lead people astray. Now, I believe you are sharing the thoughts that are going through your mind. These thoughts are being distorted. 

Listen to the voice of the Shepherd. He will lead you to understand Who He is. I believe your soul is at stake. 

Roy

Permalink Reply by Douglas A Pavone on February 12, 2011 at 6:58am

Roy,

What does your response have to do with my posting.I didnt say that God was concieved created or developed.I put this up so i could get some clarification and you have attacked me for it.I have been through so much in my life and i know it is God who brought me through it.I shared my feelings with you and you used them against me.Your are a hurtful person Roy and you set yourself up as a follower of Jesus but i dont know if you know him at all. they said to Jesus lord we have done great miracles in your name cast our demons in your name but he said begone from me you workers of iniquity.I have never insulted you though you take every opportunity to demean me.I believe that you dont understand.So i forgive you but if you treat others in this way on this site then you should think about leaving it because you behavior is destructive to the body here more than being  helpful.

It seems that you have a way to communicate that is demeaning and insulting.I dont know how to express it other than that. I have danced with you with scriptures in the past and have made many valid points and the fundamental God is spirit  assertion that i have is still valid.

It seems that if i come closer to the views that you share it still doesnt appease you.I have a life outside of this blog and do not have the time to debate you for hours and pour over scripture for days as i did in the past. Your arrogance and insulting harsh mannerism in your statements shows a mind that is not grounded in the love of christ and the understanding of Gods desire to bring those to him. I pray for you that God give you a heart that is more open to his love and in this i worry about your salvation.Does it not say we have one God and father and one Lord Jesus Christ.does it not say that we have one God who is above all through all and in you all.Does it not say in the first commandment that we should have no other Gods besides(not before) God.Does it not say that our father is a spirit being.

It is disconcerting to share that which is in my heart and be demeaned for it.You have tremendous amount of hate in your heart roy and you should examine that and give this to the lord.I have come a long way toward the trinitarian ideology in the recent months but if you read my response you would see that.I hope that you dont deal with others on this site in this way because if you do you are more destructive to it than i could ever have been.

I pray that God move and show you his love because for all the scriptural knowledg this seems to be missing.

1 Corinthians 13 (New International Version, ©2010)

1 Corinthians 13

 1 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on February 12, 2011 at 8:37am

Douglas,

You are correct. I have not been as kind as I should have been. I apologize for that. However, you cannot confuse that with the lack of love. You might notice that I first felt you were here to lead others astray but that I now concluded that these were your thoughts. Here is my problem: you are stating that God is talking to you communicating these ideas. The post I am concerned with I believe was yesterday. It read:

Permalink Reply by Douglas A Pavone 13 hours ago

Long time no post. God has shown Jesus and I have been blessed to develope a connection to him for the first time in a long time.

Jesus is God the holy spirit is God and the father is God. But the primary and only God is the father because the spirit is the father. Jesus was begotten of the father he was first.The holy spirit procedes from the father he was again first. They all are God parts of the whole which is the father.

 

 He is spirit as Jesus said he was. A spirit being and Jesus was the way that God showed himself to us, Jesus is the image of the invisible God again. Jesus is  the word of God which is the power and the wisdom of God. The holy spirit is the part of God that allows us to come into the understanding of the spirit being that is our God it is also the active force of God that connects us to God and lives in the believer making him a new creature.

 

 God has shown me that as the analogy of the body of christ eyes arms legs our father has these parts in the word of God and the holy spirit. Just as the hand touches and tells the brain what it feels like the spirit of God being God and part of God  communicates with the father who is as the mind.

 

 It says that jesus is our head and his head is God.I could go on but i think i have made a point that you should ponder. God is spirit and must be worshiprd in spirit and truth.God bless to all.

You cannot put Jesus in a position that is less than the eternal God. He was there with the Father in the very beginning. There was no evolution in the Godhead. It is eternal. When you say these thoughts are coming from God, that concerns me. I recommended finding a pastor. If I am mistaking, then please forgive me but I do not think I am. If you are ready to say that Jesus was God in the beginning and that there has never been a change in the Godhead until that day He was conceived in the womb of Mary, than I am fine. What I am reading in your post, however, is that you are saying that Jesus was not the Eternal God. Jesus did not become God, was not in the beginning begotten of God, is not an extension of God, nor any kind of a wispy cloud who became a man. 

Attacking me does not change that post. There is your post. I do not think God is telling you these things. I do believe your soul is dependent on your belief in who Jesus is. He is the eternal God. He is the Lord of the Old Testament. 

Forgive me for being so rough. I will try to do better. Only a true believer in Jesus can forgive. Are you a true believer?

Blessings.

Roy

 

 

Permalink Reply by Douglas A Pavone on February 12, 2011 at 9:13am

Wispy cloud that became man there you go again roy i realize that our minds are not wired the same way.You cannot concieve of what spirit is and i guess i cannot make you understand.This is why God took the form of man because most people can not understand spirit.

I had finished leaving the recent post and God put it in my heart to pray for you and i did. He had me pray for more love to enter into your heart to have his love heal all the pain and suffering that you have had in your life. He put it in my heart to remind me of a person in my life that reminds me of you and that you do not realize how you are.I can be hard at times too but our loving God has humbled me and made me subordinate to him. This is how our Lord is to the father he is sobordinate to him but they are one.

 Additionally you view Jesus as God and dont focus your prayer to the father I primarily pray to the father  and thank Jesus but recently I have been talking to Jesus for the first time in years and i am blessed to renew the relationship.

 God is showing me our differences and how this has created termoil.

I am not going to get into a scriptural debate with you roy because there are many many scriptures to show the subordination of Jesus to the father and most of his own utterances.I know that you can muster scriptures to prove that Jesus is not subordinate but im not going to go there. God has put it in my heart to look to have peace with others in the body and find common ground.

What do we agree on roy lets look at that ok.

May God richly bless you.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on February 12, 2011 at 10:20am

Douglas,

When you say things like this: I know that you can muster scriptures to prove that Jesus is not subordinate but im not going to go there.

This does lead me to believe you still do not have a good understanding. I could discuss this with you if you wished but only if you wish. 

Roy

Permalink Reply by Douglas A Pavone on February 12, 2011 at 11:19am

Lets find common ground with all the parts of the bod of Christ. I know that even those parts of the body that we believe will not be recieved into heaven may be those who God has chosen.

Heavenly father we come together in the name of jesus and ask you to bring peace to the body of Christ. Bring your light and wisdom to us and allow your truth to flow upon us.You said your word is living and powerfull and sharper than a two edged sword. May that word clean us of the things of the world and may it make us acceptable to you in all that we do.Bring us together with no strife no rivalry no anger and no division.Allow us to be trained by your spirit and may you dwell within us and make us more like your son Jesus.We thank you for all that you have done in our lives.I give thanks for roy and all those who have shown me more about your word and pushed me to think about you more deeply.Help us to grow in you and help us to die to self daily.Help us to give more of ourselves to serve you God mold us because you are the potter and we are the clay.

God put it in my heart to post a prayer the power of prayer moves mountains and changes lives.It is best in a situation that is stressfull of unpleasant more than in a situation of peril.

Please pray for me to have God give me the strength to do his will.

Thank You Robbin for the peace that God has given you.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on February 13, 2011 at 2:20am

Who is Jesus?

To completely understand the Person of our Lord and Savior, we have to understand the nature of God. God was not born, created, or conceived. God has always been. He did not begin as one entity and evolve into another. He was God in the beginning. He is One. However, it is important for us to realize that our understanding of God is shaped by Scripture. And Scripture teaches that God exists as One but not as one person. In fact, there were three persons. Therefore we come to know Him as the Godhead: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The terminology of the word "Son" does have a tendency to indicate that Jesus (Who was God incarnate) was subordinate to the Father. That is not correct. He was in the beginning God, Who did not think equality with God was something that should be held onto, but willingly gave up that position to become our Savior. He laid aside those attributes to become a man that He might become our Redeemer. However, that does not mean that His nature was ever any less than God Himself. In nature He is not subordinate but in His position of man He is.

The knowledge that He would do this is eternal. He plan is eternal. Eternity is a concept that we cannot understand and so there is no use us trying to. The nature of God is beyond our comprehension but certainly what He did for us is completely understandable. God laid aside those divine attributes and became a man.

There has never been an existence when He was not. We cannot say God was first and then came the Son. He has always been. He has always been equal with God the Father. That, however, He laid aside to become flesh.

I personally believe that Jesus became a man just like us. (I believe in the virgin birth). He did not have divine knowledge (at least I don't think He did). I believe Jesus learned Who He was through Scripture. I believe He learned this at His local synagogue for He probably would not have had a copy of the scrolls Himself. I believe God the Spirit moved on Him and Jesus came to know that He was in fact the Lord of the Old Testament. He revealed Himself as such to His sheep when He told them He was the Good Shepherd. Those Jews knew that 23rd Psalm just as we do today. He told them, I am that Good Shepherd. His sheep know Him. The know His voice. Where do they hear His voice? They hear His voice all the way through the Bible. "He is the LORD. The LORD is the eternal God. He is both our Creator and our Savior. Since His plan is eternal, He has always been our Creator and our Savior. He is Israel's Savior. You can find Him all the way through the Old Testament. He is their Savior just as He is ours. He has made us one.

Philippians chapter 2 teaches us these things. He, Who was in very nature God, became a human being. The entire Bible gives us the reason. There was no other way. However, this was never plan B. It was always His plan. It was His plan in the beginning. He is our eternal Savior. 

Now, when someone comes along and says that Jesus was created, conceived, issued, became, an extension of some kind, etc., an alarm goes off inside me. You hear this in many areas and will begin to hear it more and more as our world becomes more united. Today, in America, our own President tells us that there are many paths to God. Jesus is just one of those paths. This doctrine will become more and more prevalent and the pressure on the church will become more and more intense to acknowledge these other paths and other prophets. The faith of our fathers is slowly slipping away. It is being attacked on every side - in our schools, in our seminaries, in our political institutions - all around.

There is coming a so-called prophet that will attempt to unite all the religions of the world. That is impossible for the true believer. I, along with some of you, will be among the first they will attempt to get rid of. I will never acknowledge any other than Jesus. He is my true Shepherd. When I pray, I will only pray to the Father through Jesus. Other prayers do not work. They are a waste of time. Universal prayers might sound good and appeal to the public, but they are worthless. The Father only hears those prayers through His Son. Why? They are the only ones that are His children. He has no other.

Jesus is the eternal God. He was never any less than that. He is Lord. As man He was elevated to that position. As God He has never been elevated to anything. He never needed to be. He is God. He is the I Am.

Blessings,

Roy

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