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Once saved always saved?
Many believe that once you are saved you are always saved and that you cannot lose your salvation or be rejected by God.
What is the scriptural basis for “Once saved always saved”? Does not the responsibility lie with the believer how he/she conduct themselves after initially being saved?
I see many scriptures that say/imply other than once saved always saved:
Old Testament:
Num 14:11 Then the LORD said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?
Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them..."
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.
1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her…"
Pro 2:13 …From those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness…
New Testament:
Joh 17:12 …Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition…
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery…
Act 8:13 …Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done…
Act 8:20 …But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
Act 8:23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 Now "IF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE IS SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?"
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
2Ti 2:17 …Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth…
2Ti 2:24 …And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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David, I'm glad to hear that it helps answer you questions. There's several problems with the extreme views of the positions on both sides of this debate. However, in no way do I see God ever trick his people into believing they are saved by any means other than the shed blood of Jesus. Even in the Old Covenant, there were means for repentance and restoration for the wayward sinner - unless they were unwilling to accept those means of cleansing.
For instance: take David, King of Israel. He sinned against God and committed a heinous crime against an innocent man (Uriah). God judged him for it - yet not by causing him to lose his salvation. What David says in Psalm 51 is that he lost the JOY of his salvation. David was faithfully confronted by God, for his sin and David repented of that sin. He offered the appropriate sacrifices as prescribed by Moses and faithfully committed his heart back to God.
What many people read as the consequences for moral sins committed by a believer have nothing to do with the "insult to the Spirit of Grace" that is spoken of in Hebrews. Yes, there are consequences to sin and the LORD does bring us to account for our moral and spiritual failures. However, if we are in Christ, those consequences do not equate to losing salvation.
Just looking at the Old Covenant system, which is commonly called the "Mosaic" system, there were annual sacrifices and periodic sacrifices to cover the people for their sin, given through Moses. You see, God anticipated their inability to keep the moral law. That is why there were 612 other laws pertaining to sacrifices and offerings for all manner of cleansing and renewal.
Now, if you try to take Hebrews 6:4-6 out of context and lump it together with those other verses as you have in your question, you create a concept where a person cannot be brought back to repentance. This is never what Jesus intended! You see, the idea of "losing salvation" and then "regaining salvation" is not accounted for in the book of Hebrews. The writer is saying that if you could lose it, you're done baby! Now that's a scary thought - because I have had moral failures even while trying to live for Christ.
This is a way of actually saying the opposite: if you are in Christ, you are safe, but if you are seeking to hedge your bets at the Temple, by sacrificing a sheep for your sins, then you have actually insulted the Spirit of Grace by trampling over Christ's blood on your way back to the old obsolete system.
The writer of Hebrews is pleading with them not to do that and rather for them to completely rely upon the new relationship with God through Christ. He's saying: fellowship among the believers in Christ and turn your back on the Temple and the associations you have there. Do not fear the opinion of man, and instead turn fearlessly to God.
This was a big cost to the Jews of the 1st Century. The prestige, the opportunities and the cash were with the folks who hung out at the Temple. Being recognized as a Christian meant abandoning your entire life. You would be spurned and scorned. You would be an outcast. Your family would hate you and disown you. Your neighborhood friends from the synagogue would turn their backs on you and shun you completely. Your business may fail, you may not get a decent job. You may have to start over completely in a new town.
Hebrews is speaking to us today. It's not cool to believe in Jesus. It's not cool to believe that there is a creator and you will be ostracized if you ever admit to believing the Bible's account of Creation. Maybe your friends will mock you. Maybe your neighbors will laugh at you and you may not get a job if they know you are "one of those crazy Jesus people" if you admit to believing that Jesus rose from the dead.
Believe it anyway and have joy through faith in God; because the kingdoms of this world will all fall and come to nothing. The Lord laughs at those who mock you.
Hebrews is saying "persevere, by faith in God. Let the Spirit lead you. Depend on God and depend on your bothers in Christ". We need to remember the cost paid by those who went before us.
The history shows that most of the Jewish Christians were faithful and they obeyed Jesus. But some went back to Temple worship. When the siege of Jerusalem came, under Titus, those who trusted Jesus were spared the destruction and spared the captivity - their community continued in Petra for over 100 years because they fled the city "when armies surrounded" and they did not go back. But those who turned back to defend the city and the temple suffered the same fate as those who did not follow Jesus. The horrors of the Roman siege of Jerusalem are well known.
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Permalink Reply by David Abel on
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Hi Scribe
It still makes me wonder about those Hebrews who accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, and then because of external pressures and circumstances still went back to the old system, thereby being guilty as charged according to Heb 10.
The fact that they actually abandoned the old for the new (but couldn't follow through), who can say whether they were initially saved or not, or just apostates. Their hearts had to be in it at the beginning of their faith in Jesus Christ and their acceptance of the Blood of Jesus (under the New Covenant with the Blood of the New Lamb of God under the priesthood of the New High Priest in the order of Melchizedek). They knew enough, believed enough, had faith enough, were even sanctified (by the Blood of Jesus which they afterwards counted as common by disdaining the new for the old again), and were guilty of falling away. Falling away has the impression of actually being part of something, then literally falling away and not being part of that something any more. Was that "something" mere Christianity as a religion or actual salvation?
Just apostates or actually at the beginning of their faith and conversion saved?
God Bless,
David A.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Thank you for this Scribe.
Love to you my brother.
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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I'm very curious. Did God give us preachers that we would follow their word instead of God's Word?
What is difficult about John 3:16 that one can't believe what it says? What does "whosoever" mean? What about "God will never leave you or forsake you"? Or "no one can take you out of the Father's Hand"? Why do you disregard these wonderful verses? How can a person be a "disciple" of Christ and believe one can lose their salvation? What is regeneration? All through the New Testament it is spoken of the promises of God, God's Grace, eternal salvation and yet many don't believe what the Bible says. Paul also said, "if anyone speaks another gospel other than what I have taught you, let him be accursed". Yet, what I am reading here tells me that some of you believe "another gospel" and in turn, speak it.
You need to go to your bible, read it all the while asking God to reveal the truth of it to you.
Blessings to you as you study Who God really is...
Rita
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I do not believe that once saved then you are always saved. I liken salavation to a foundation (Isaiah 28:16) that needs to be belt upon by the word of God. (John 15:6-7). Therefore, if you want to be truly saved we must abide in Christ up to the very end. (Matthew 24:13) clealy shows that we must faithfully serve God up to the very end of our lives. This calls for deligence, commitment and faithfullness on our part, then God will grant us the grace to serve Him faithfully even upto the very end. The examples of the Israelites, Saul and others who were rejected by God even after saving them teaches us that when we remain obedient, faithful to God, seeking God whole heartedly and loving Him above anything else by the Power of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8, Zachariah 4:6) then we shall never lose our eternal inheritance of eternal life. (Rom 8:17). As believers, we need to completely surrender our lives to God, put Him first in our lives and do only that which he wants or desires us to do. Remember, God is faithful and He shall surely reward us. (1 Corr 15:58)
God bless you all
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God bless you
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All the verses you are placing here Demian have been successfully debunked throughout this discussion and throughout history. You should read the entire discussion and then go to the Lord in prayer and meditate on the truth you are being confronted with. Faithfully serving God to the end is nice and dandy but is not what gives you access to heaven. Please stop diminishing the work of Christ. His work was complete for those who would repent and believe.
You can't use the Old Testament to correctly divide the word in this topic. They were under a different covenant and before other members or you take the scripture "God is the same today...." let me tell you that indeed God is the same today and forever, but the covenants He establishes through the various dispensations do change.
>>As believers, we need to completely surrender our lives to God, put Him first in our lives and do only that which he wants or desires us to do.
To this statement I say - Amen!
Demian is not a matter of what you believe, but what scripture teaches.
Be blessed and a blessing beloved.
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I agree with you that it is not a matter of what you believe, but what scripture teaches. I also agree with you that the Work of Christ was complete for those who would repent and believe. Infact, the Bible says we are seated in Christ. (Ephesians 1: 19-20) and we reign with Him as believers.However, we should not relax but just like Christ we have the privilegde of expressing our love for God and for a dying world by revoking the comfort of that position.
Like Christ, you walk on the earthas a son of God, but like him, you also have become the servant of all (Philipians 2:7, Matthew 20:28. The good works you do are because you have everything that Christ Has, not because you are struggling to get anything. They are works of grace, not that you are working for your salvation you are completely saved as a believer. However, you should never relax and say 'Iam already saved and always saved' and do nothing like winning souls for Christ, teaching, preaching the Word and making known the mysteries of God. This is work that we as believers must do once we are saved.
However, my concern is for those who would believe and repent and backslide without repenting. Those are the ones iam refering as 'having lost their salvation'' like the prodical son who had obtained an inheritance and squandered it exept he repented.
God bless you
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Permalink Reply by Michael Vernon McEntire on
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Why does this debate continue after nearly two millenia? Because people imagine that God thinks like they do, that God governs like they would. Their god is simply the best judge they can imagine, the best father they can imagine in terms of human virtues. As an Elder, missionary, pastor, I never worried about the salvation of penitent backsliders. God gives Grace to the humble. But I worry about the salvation of people who have read the Bible but still don't know God in his supernatural condescension. They're idolators who are still creating gods in the image of man. I worry about the salvation of the self-righteous who think they no longer back-slide. Those who expect God to be juridicial will get no more than a juridicial god. Those who know that God is infinitely more than justice alone will get the Sacred Heart of Jesus.
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