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Once saved always saved?
Many believe that once you are saved you are always saved and that you cannot lose your salvation or be rejected by God.
What is the scriptural basis for “Once saved always saved”? Does not the responsibility lie with the believer how he/she conduct themselves after initially being saved?
I see many scriptures that say/imply other than once saved always saved:
Old Testament:
Num 14:11 Then the LORD said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?
Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them..."
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.
1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her…"
Pro 2:13 …From those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness…
New Testament:
Joh 17:12 …Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition…
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery…
Act 8:13 …Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done…
Act 8:20 …But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
Act 8:23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 Now "IF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE IS SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?"
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
2Ti 2:17 …Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth…
2Ti 2:24 …And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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I echo this. I am not a calvinist yet I am confident in Jesus for Eternal Security.
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Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on
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Sharon,
I have a hard time to believe that God, when creating anyone says: This shall be saved, this shall be dammed. Rather, we all may be saved, but we may choose not to.
Yes, God knows the future, and this means that He knows who is going to accept salvation or not. The opportunities will be given to all. Not all will take them.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Yael -
God does not care what you/I/we have a hard time with. He is God with you/us or without you/us. The sooner you receive that, the much better you will interpret scripture. Well understanding of course that the natural man does not understand the things of God. The Holy Spirit is not leading you to all truth unless you are born again.
"See now that I, I [am] He, and there [is] no other God with Me. I kill, and I keep alive. I wound and I heal, and there [is] no deliverer from My hand" (Deu 32:39). "Jehovah kills and keeps alive; He brings down and causes to go to Sheol. Jehovah brings down, and He gives riches; He brings low; yea, He lifts up high. He raises the poor from the dust; He lifts up the needy from the dunghill, to cause [them] to sit with nobles; yea, He causes them to inherit a throne of honor; for to Jehovah [are] the pillars of the earth; and He sets the habitable world on them" (1Sa 2:6-8). "Behold, He breaks down, and no one builds; He shuts against a man, and no one opens. Behold, He holds back the waters, and they dry up; and He sends them out, and they overflow the earth. With Him [is] strength and sound wisdom; the deceived and the deceiver are His. He causes wise men to go stripped; and He makes judges fools. He loosens the bonds of kings, and He binds their loins with a girdle; making priests walk [away] stripped; and He overthrows the mighty; turning aside the lip of the trusted men; and He takes away the reason of the aged. He pours scorn on nobles, and He loosens the girdle of the mighty; revealing deep things out of darkness; and He brings the shadow of death to light. He gives greatness to the nations, and He destroys them; spreading out the nations, and He leads them out. He takes away the heart of the heads of the people of the land; and He causes them to wander in a waste [in which is] no path. They grope in the dark, and [there] is no light; and He makes them stagger like a drunkard" (Job 12:14-25). "But He [is] in one [mind], and who can turn Him? Yea, His soul desires, and He does [it]. For He fulfilled my lot, and many like these are with Him" (Job 23:13-14). "But our God [is] in Heaven; He has done all that He has pleased" (Psa 115:3). "For I know that Jehovah [is] great, and our Lord [is] above all gods. Every [thing] which Jehovah [was] pleased to do, He did, in the heavens and in the earth, and in the seas and all deep places. He causes the vapors to rise from the end of the earth; He makes lightnings for the rain; He brings the wind out of His storehouses" (Psa 135:5-7). "The lot is cast into the lap, but all ordering of it [is] from Jehovah" (Pro 16:33). "[As] streams of waters, the king's heart [is] in the hand of Jehovah; He turns it wherever He desires" (Pro 21:1). "Have you not known? Have you not heard? Was it not told to you from the beginning? Did you not discern [from] the foundations of the earth? He who sits on the circle of the earth, even those living in it are like grasshoppers; He who stretches the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in; who gives potentates into nothing. He makes judges of the earth as nothing. Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they are not sown; yea, their stem [is] not taking root in the earth. And He shall also blow on them, and they shall wither, and the tempest shall lift them up like stubble. To whom then will you compare Me, or [am] I equaled, says the Holy One? Lift up your eyes on high and look: Who has created these? Who brings out their host by number? By greatness of vigor, and might of power, He calls them all by names; not one is lacking" (Isa 40:21-26). "Behold, the former things have come to pass, and I declare new things before they happen, I cause you to hear" (Isa 42:9). "I [am] Jehovah, and [there is] none else; there is no God except Me. I will clothe you, though you do not know Me, that they may know from the rising of the sun, and to its going down, that [there is] none besides Me; I [am] Jehovah, and there is none else; forming light, and creating darkness; making peace, and creating evil. I, Jehovah, do all these things" (Isa 45:5-7). "Remember former things from forever, for I [am] God, and no one else [is] God, even none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past those things which were not done, saying, My counsel shall rise; and, I will do all My desire; calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of My counsel from a far off land. Yes, I have spoken; yes, I will cause it to come; I have formed; yes, I will do it" (Isa 46:9-11). "O house of Israel, can I not do to you as this potter? says Jehovah. Behold, as the clay in the potter's hand, [so are] you in My hand, O house of Israel" (Jer 18:6). "Who [is] this speaking, and it happens [when] the Lord does not command it?" (Lam 3:37). "And all the trees of the field shall know that I, Jehovah, have brought down the high tree [and] have exalted the low tree, [and] have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree flourish. I, Jehovah, have spoken and acted" (Eze 17:24).
Is a god who does not control all of his creation the God of Holy Scripture?God indeed chooses who He saves, that is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to obvious for anyone who
>>Yes, God knows the future, and this means that He knows who is going to accept salvation or not. The opportunities will be given to all. Not all will take them.
Give me one verse, there are thousands in the bible that backs up the false notion that God's election is due to His foreknowledge of our acceptance of him. Give me one. You will not find it.
Yes - I love Calvin and Wesley and Arminian and St. Augustine and RC Sproul and Jack Hayford - Have you study their writings???? Sola Scriptura of Course, but we do not cast aside as other arrogant brothers the beauty of the men God has used to bless His people, by hiding in their ignorance behind "I am bible only." Well when we read the bible we read the theology of Paul, Mark, Luke etc.... as God breath. The inspiration of Calvin and Wesley is not of the same kind, but it is of God none the less.
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Sharon,
You are completely given a false representation of Calvin/Calvinism - Reformed theology. I do not have the time to speak on this at the moment nor desire to take this discussion on a tangent about Calvinism and Armenianism. But you are misrepresenting the Reformed Theology stance.
There are millions of Christians; I am sure, around the world who believes in eternal security, that God keeps us without having an idea of what Calvinism is. They simply read their bibles and God leads them. It is good to know why others believe what they do, but is never good to misrepresent them.
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I DON'T believe in OSAS. Period. It's not scriptural.
As I read the Book of Revelation and the message to the 7 churches, it is clear that our actions count.
One can have his/her name blot out if one does not KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS. That's Crystal clear to me.
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Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on
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Yael,
Amen.
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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So, Yael: I will assume that you have been saved at some point. Have you ever lost your salvation since then? If not, are you sure not? If so, are you sure that you have regained it?
In other words, by what standard to you know you are saved. If you do not know it, what do you believe is your standing before the perfect standard of Almighty God?
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The race is not finished yet, friend. Remember Paul's word, keep your eyes on the price. You cannot win it before the race is finished.
"Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."
I am not saved, I am being saved. All I have to do is hold fast to what is right is God's eyes. When my time comes he will reward me accordingly. How do I know I am in good standing with God?
How about the 10 COMMANDMENTS? Keep them and you'll be fine.
"Those who love me, do what I say" I suppose that's the golden rule.
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Yael -
So are you born again now, because if you are the Spirit will lead you to all truth, but if you are not a child of God your opinion carries no weight and it should not be taken seriously by born again believers.
>>As I read the Book of Revelation and the message to the 7 churches, it is clear that our actions count.
From start to finish, our actions count, and...
>>One can have his/her name blot out if one does not KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS. That's Crystal clear to me.
The only thing clear about that is that your name can be blotted out of the book of the living, of those currently alive through divine correction.
Please family - stop calling God a liar - he said:
To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy-- Jude 1:24
Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
2 Corinthians 4:14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.
We have a responsibility to walk in holiness because His love is amazing. Oh how I love him, but please do not call my Lord a liar.
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Dear Readers,
Do we take Jesus at His word or do we formulate our own interpretation of His word? Once Saved always saved is very attractive, reassuring and very convenient. However, is it a true Christian teaching? Under whose authority was this revealed and taught? Is it of man or of God? Where did it come from?
Sharon.
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Hi Sharon.
Are Catholic? If yes, I'd love to ask you a few questions....
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