Once saved always saved?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 13, 2011 at 9:20am

Roger:

 

This site has a purpose and a goal. It is here to meet a need in the body:

 

AllAboutGOD Ministries, Inc. created AllAboutGOD.NET as a place for brand-new believers who come to Christ through our more than 15,000 web pages, to:

· learn what Christian fellowship can be like

· get encouragement for their walk in Christ

· get some of their questions about the Christian life answered

· find good links to discipleship materials

· create in their hearts a desire to be a part of a local Christian church or to start one themselves.

Those are our reasons for existence!

Even though our name is AllAboutGOD, it has never been our intention to represent "all" the points of view about God, or to be everything for everybody. Not everything goes here like on some other social networks (see our Membership Agreement), we believe the Bible is true and is the final authority when it comes to matters of faith and how we live our lives, so to some we are too restrictive. At the same time we have believers from scores of different countries and backgrounds so for others we are too permissive. We are, however, very focused on our purpose for TheNET and that will never change:

To be a place for Christian fellowship, encouragement, and discipleship for new followers of Christ.  http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/thenets-purpose-reminding-us

 

David V.

Volunteer NET Moderator

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on February 12, 2011 at 5:13am

I am eternally secure. I don't know about anyone else.

Rita

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 12, 2011 at 10:20am

haahaha hahaha Got to love you girl.

 

Rita - you rock. I KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT I KNOW... THAT I BELONG TO HIM AND HE BELONGS TO ME.

AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSEHOLD WE WILL SERVE THE LORD - YOU - YOU I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU GONNA DO, BUT LIKE MY BELOVED SIS HAS SAID : I am eternally secure

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Permalink Reply by Carla on February 12, 2011 at 10:58am

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 13, 2011 at 9:14am

GReat vid beloved .

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Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on February 14, 2011 at 8:58am

I love Religion!! I love reverence, liturgy, praying with your mind and body and all that comes with it... Being at the western wall in Jerusalem was an awsome experience. Worshiping with every muscle of your body...It was just great.

 

What I hate is anarchy of Religious doctrines, that indeed is a problem.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 15, 2011 at 2:16am

LB,

 

Please pray study and meditate on what you are being presented. I do not know if you do or don't, but it seems to me that you are so gun-ho to defend your stance that you are missing out on the beauty you are being given by many.

 

Why do you do this? >>But if he hates pure religion then he is mistaken! The brother is a beautiful man of God, a pastor of God's people. He is extremely familiar with:

 

Pure religion and undefiled (holiness!) before God and the Father is this, according to the New Testament: To visit the widows and fatherless in their affliction... And to keep himself unspotted from the world!  -James 1:27.

 

I know cause before I place something here or give it a thumps up I spend hours researching them. The guys I quote or place videos here of, I been listening to for at least 13 years. No they do not shape my theology, they do edify me, but the word of God shapes my theology. How long have you listened to Driscoll LB? Look sis I am not into embarrassing anyone, but please stop, ask God to help you with this issues that you are so sure you have down and you don't. You are teaching error and that is really serious. I still don't see you as someone that comes here with ell intentions to teach unbiblical doctrines, but please study what you are being presented and don't just be so quick to try to rebuke it.  Praise God this is not a primary issue but a secondary one.

 

I wonder how Jesus feels when we say things like:

 

>>God never accepted blemished or spotted animals under the Law.  You had to give him your best, and it had to be unspotted and unblemished.  God only accepts us if we keep ourselves (our bodies as living sacrifices) as holy and righteous as He made us when He saved us and washed us in the blood of Jesus.

 

That statement is so bad that I have to remind myself that you are my sister in Christ and this issue is secondary and not a primary one, but oh my if I am offended by it and heartbroken at the level of error that statement teaches, I wonder how the unblemished Lamb of the world feels when He sees those whom He died for making such horrible statements. 

 

Sister, Jesus was the perfect sacrifice and is not asking u to be perfect as He is perfect. Yes I know you will come back and tell me, well brother do you not understand plain English? The bible says to be holy and to be perfect and then I will tell you that God can ask for no less than perfection and holiness. He told people go and sin no more, but then tells us that whoever says they are without sin, make him a liar.  He is not asking us to be unblemished on our own doing, apart from him.  Yes we are to present our bodies a living sacrifice (Romans 12), but we do not keep ourselves unblemished, rather God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit keep us unblushing once and for all through Christ’s sacrifice and keep us in the way of holiness through the sanctification process. We are already without blemish for salvation but not to receive blessing here do to our obedience. .

 

To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy-- Jude 1:24

 

>>But the Bible says we must keep ourselves unspotted from the world, so we will be holy and without blemish--and our Heavenly Father is not politely requesting it...he is demanding it of every true servant of Christ.

 

But it does not say we keep ourselves perfectly unspotted and it gives us the privilege here to be included in the work of Christ in us.

 

>>And whether we believe a Christian who is covetous was never really saved--or we believe they were saved but have dangerously slid back into bondage to sin--we must nevertheless be diligent to admonish one another daily that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man (who is an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God! 

Paul said that in Ephesians 5:5 and I believe that is also a description of our religion: true Christianity is pure religion!

 

Well one thing is for sure LB your teachers surely taught you how to interpret scripture aligning it to their erroneous belief about the topic at hand. The Holy Spirit has not taught you this interpretation of that I am 100% sure, for it is not biblical.

 

All Ephesians 5:5 is saying is what we find in:

 

5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all^b sin.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 13, 2011 at 9:14am

 

Royal,

 

This is applicable to Christ our Lord but how do those verses come to apply to us in losing or not losing salvation? You lost me, unless you are thinking that we are saved by our devotion. I do not know how you are applying those verses to this discussion, please give me a bit more and break it down for me if you don't mine bro.

 

Love and blessings to you.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 15, 2011 at 2:00am

Royal-

 

A down payment of our salvation? Where do you find that in scripture? That is right - nowhere.

 

>>May I ask you one question and that is what you believe as an individual will bring you salvation so that you will receive the promise of eternal salvation.

 

Please feel free to ask away. I do not have the time to give you the details responses I would like and since I had decided not to discuss differences in secondary issues I have been ignoring a lot of way out stuff here, but some of this stuff just makes no sense to me. How can some of the scriptures that are being misunderstood and taken out of context to create the horrible teaching that salvation can be lost be abuse like this?

 

I think you are asking me how is a person saved, is that the question? If that is the question then the answer is: Repent and believe, not by works, but by grace through faith, which faith is living and actively producing works in us. What will bring us salvation once we are saved is God keeping us.

 

Now let me ask you a question: what do you make of this verse?

 

For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Philippians 2:13

 

>>Any one who does not believe the scripture and do as told by that scripture will not understand scripture under any circumstances. Read verse 9.

 

Heb 5:9 And by being perfected in this way, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.

 

Ok and? I know you are not applying something that was applicable to Jesus only to say that this is what we have to do? We are not called to be Jesus, but to manifest Jesus. There is only one Jesus.  Scripture interprets scripture read:

 

Hebrews 2:10

In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.

 

So what in the world are you talking about bro, you lost me again? :)

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on February 15, 2011 at 6:33pm

Your quote: "You can lose your salvation and that is by being disobedient to God"

 

Royal, which thing could I disobey that would cause me to lost my salvation? What sin causes me to LOSE salvation? Please let me know, because I don't want to lose it. If I have lost it, how do I get it back? 

 

Your quote: "Heb 5:9 And by being perfected in this way, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him"

Royal, In what way would I obey Him (Jesus)? What has Jesus compelled me to do? Can you tell me? 

 

Consider: 

"For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus"  (1 Thess 4:2)

"hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments" (1 John 2:3)

[if you look at the construction of the sentence, it has a double reference that the object intended in the reference pronoun "his" is Jesus. In other words, John is making it double clear that we must obey what Jesus himself specifically commanded] 

 

Do you know what commands John and Paul are referring to? 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 13, 2011 at 9:09am

 

Royal -

 

It is impossible to lose what you did not merit, work for or deserved. No way possible. Please do not make such a beautiful salvation and gift a matter of works - human performance - by calling it - obedience. Christ’s work was perfect and complete at the cross for His people.

 

Church day today Yayyyyy!!!!! So I do not have much time, but here is something for you to consider:

 

The arguments you are bringing up have been dealt with on the discussion below as most of the ones being discuss here. We do not mind at all discussing them again beloved, but have a look.

 

Losing Salvation?http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/losing-salvation

 

God willing I will give you a proper response later. Have a blessed day family and go to church. :)

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 13, 2011 at 1:10am

Hello brother David,

 

You directed your last question towards LT but I hope you don’t mind me jumping in here. :)

 

>>1. Please clarify “sanctified” as it appears in Heb 10:29, where the person being referred to had been sanctified by the blood of the covenant.

 

Hebrews 10 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said, “I will take revenge. I will pay them back.” He also said, “The Lord will judge his own people.” 31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32 Think back on those early days when you first learned about Christ. Remember how you remained faithful even though it meant terrible suffering. 33 Sometimes you were exposed to public ridicule and were beaten, and sometimes you helped others who were suffering the same things. 34 You suffered along with those who were thrown into jail, and when all you owned was taken from you, you accepted it with joy. You knew there were better things waiting for you that will last forever. 35 So do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you! 36 Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised. 37 “For in just a little while, the Coming One will come and not delay. 38 And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.” 39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

These verses deal with the sin of Apostasy. Apostates are people who get close to the things pertaining to God and salvation, but intentionally fall away, they understand the Gospel, but rebel and walk away. Not all the Hebrews would respond to the gentle invitation of vv.19-25. The writer excludes himself and genuine believers from those who turn back (v.39). Sin willfully – the sin is rejecting Christ deliberately. Knowledge – the Greek term denotes specific knowledge, not general spiritual knoladge(6:4, 1Tim. 2:4). Judas is a good example of a disciple who had no lack of knowledge, but lack faith and became the arch-apostate. The apostate is beyond salvation.

 

>>2. Php 2:12-13. Even though it is God who works in us both to will and to do for His good pleasure (vs 13), what does the preceding verse really mean? The words that really stand out – work out, your own salvation, with fear and trembling. Is this a reference to the sanctification process? God’s work or our work? Define “work out”?

 

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

 

This cannot refer to salvation by works (Rom.3:21-24; Eph2:8-9) or that we are to go around with fear of losing our salvation , but it does refer to the believers responsibility for an active pursuit in obedience in the process of sanctification. God can kill you if He wants, if you are rebellious, God’s correction can involve wooping us, just as our natural parents can kick woop us, God can and does correct His sons, so just as we fear our mom’s telling our earthly fathers of our disobedience we are to fear our Heavenly Father.

 

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. – Although the believer is responsible to work (I am not saying that we are not and scripture admonishes us to work in many places), the Lord actually produces the good works and spiritual fruit in the lives believers. (John 15:5; 1 Cor.12:6).

 

To will and to do –God enables both the believer’s desires and actions. The Greek word for “will” indicates that He is not focusing on mere desires or whimsical emotions but on the studied intent to fulfill a planned purpose. God’s power makes His people willing to live godly.

Good pleasure – God wants Christians to do what satisfies Him (Eph 1:5,9; 2Thess. 1:11.)

 

Here are Calvin’s notes on verse 12:

 

12 Therefore, etc. He concludes the whole of the preceding exhortation with a general statement -- that they should humble themselves under the Lord's hand, for that will very readily secure, that, laying aside all arrogance, they will be gentle and indulgent to each other. This is the only befitting way in which the mind of man may learn gentleness, when one who, while viewing himself apart, pleased himself in his hiding-places, comes to examine himself as compared with God. EOQ

 

As ye have always obeyed. He commends their previous obedience, that he may encourage them the more to persevere. As, however, it is the part of hypocrites to approve themselves before others, but so soon as they have withdrawn from public view, to indulge themselves more freely, as if every occasion of reverence and fear were removed, he admonishes them not to shew themselves obedient in his presence merely, but also, and even much more, in his absence. For if he were present, he could stimulate and urge them on by continued admonitions. Now, therefore, when their monitor is at a distance from them, [118] there is need that they should stir up themselves.

 

With fear and trembling. In this way he would have the Philippians testify and approve their obedience -- by being submissive and humble. Now the source of humility is this -- acknowledging how miserable we are, and devoid of all good. To this he calls them in this statement. For whence comes pride, but from the assurance which blind confidence produces, when we please ourselves, and are more puffed up with confidence in our own virtue, than prepared to rest upon the grace of God. In contrast with this vice is that fear to which he exhorts. Now, although exhortation comes before doctrine, in the connection of the passage, it is in reality after it, in point of arrangement, inasmuch as it is derived from it. I shall begin, accordingly, with doctrine.

 

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