Once saved always saved?

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 8, 2011 at 11:52am

Amen Craig. Good word.

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Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on February 8, 2011 at 12:51pm

Craig,

 

I appreciate your opinion but, Sacred Scripture does not agree with you on this one.

 

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Acts 14:21,22
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 4:
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Romans 11:
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Colossians 1:
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Philippians 3
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

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Permalink Reply by Craig Baker on February 8, 2011 at 1:17pm

Think About It

Does it make any sense to say that salvation is offered as a solution for our sin and then to turn around and teach that salvation can be taken away because of our sin as well?

The good news is that God's pencil has no eraser. Before you breathed your first word, God knew how you would respond to His offer of grace. According to His foreknowledge. He wrote your name in the book of life. And there it shall remain forever. Jesus said it this way:

   My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. -- John 10: 27-28

And as if that were not clear enough:

   My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. --- John 10:29

meditate on this

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Eph 2: 8-9

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 10, 2011 at 12:26am

Vero,

 

If the list of verses you placed above is a list according to you to show that salvation can be lost, that list is completely being taken out of context. None of those verses support that false teaching. Not one on that list. By placing each or all the verses in context with a correct understanding of the revealed character of our Lord we can see that nowhere is scripture teaching that salvation can be lost. But good Lord i do not have the time to do that just now. The correct interpretation of those verses (and not the correct interpretation according to me, but to historical sound biblical doctrine) can be found on this discussion: Losing Salvation? http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/losing-salvation

 

>>Another good example is Lucifer (Satan) - abided in Heaven, knew God Himself, lived with God Himself yet he was not "saved" when given the opportunity... as punishment for the sin of pride. This sin occurred after having known and accepted God.

 

This is actually a real bad example sis. Lucifer never had to accept God. Angels and humans were created with intelligence, the ability to reason and liberty to choose and Lucifer chose to sin. But we do not read anywhere that He had to accept God. We are called to repent and believe, but angels are not call to repent, believe or accept our God as far as we know.

 

>>for he now resides in

 

Satan is not residing in Hell. He has not been cast to hell or the lake yet.  

 

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Permalink Reply by Craig Baker on February 8, 2011 at 2:43pm

^{Since you have nothing new to add I guess that I will take on your verses one at a time. Numbers 14 (if you read on)}

¹³ And Moses said to the LORD: “Then the Egyptians will hear it, for by Your might You brought these people up from among them, ¹⁴ and they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, LORD, are among these people; that You, LORD, are seen face to face and Your cloud stands above them, and You go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night. ¹⁵ Now if You kill these people as one man, then the nations which have heard of Your fame will speak, saying, ¹⁶ ‘Because the LORD was not able to bring this people to the land which He swore to give them, therefore He killed them in the wilderness.

God said what He said so that Moses could intercede for them. And of course God proved that He was able to deliver Isreal even though they did not deserve it! Even as salvation can't be earned so God won't destroy or turn away from His chosen people because of their sin. Once they are His they are always His chosen people just like once we are saved we are always saved since we were also chosen.

 

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Permalink Reply by Carla on February 8, 2011 at 4:48pm

LB,

 

If what you say is true than there are contradictions in scripture..  and we know that's not true.  The scriptures indicate that God will hold us, keep us and bring us home safely. 

 

Romans 8:29,30

Romans 8:38-39

John 10:28,29

Jude 24,25

 

..and the wheat and the tares will be together until the Lord Himself does the separating. (Matthew 13:25-30)

 

In the meantime, we may not always know who is a true believer.. scripture tells us we will know them by their fruit..  but sometimes it may be deceiving.  If anyone claims faith in the Lord, we must treat them as a brother or sister in Christ.  If their fruit shows otherwise, then we must approach them, and try to win them over, apply church discipline if necessary.  The Lord is Sovereign.  He is able to keep us, and not only is He able... He does keep us.  How do we know we are saved? (Romans 8:16).  Jesus wants us to be assured of our salvation. (1 John 5:11-13).

 

 “And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

 

Why would this be written if God does not want us to be assured?  Rest Assured, a true believer will not loose their salvation.

 

Blessings, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Craig Baker on February 8, 2011 at 9:20pm

Pride is not trusting God. Pride is trusting yourself.

 

If any man glorys let him glory in this, that he understands and knows Me that I AM the LORD!

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Permalink Reply by Carla on February 9, 2011 at 8:40am

LB,

 

I am trying to determiine one of a few things with your responses:

1) you are teaching a works salvation

or

2) you are genuinely encouraging believers to continue in good works because of their love for the Lord.

or/and (including)

3) sinless perfection

 

Honestly, I'm not sure where you stand yet.   You seem to be very focused on what you can do to be good enough.  the doctrine of OSAS is not a license to sin...to say it is, is to distort a most precious truth, that God does not let us go... nothing can separate us from His Love.    The motivation of a persons heart is really what it comes down to.  I don't know the motivation of your heart.  The reason we are doing works for the Lord, is because we know He has snatched us out of the fire..  we know what we have been saved from.  We are indebted to Him.  Our lives become a sacrifice for His purposes not our own.  So yes, works do play a part..but what is the motivation behind it.    Also, many times people will run ahead of the Lord and do some 'good work' that He never asked them to do.  God does not want us worrying and wearing ourselves out.  This is a love relationship...we ask the Lord where He is working, and we step up along-side Him to do what He asks of us.  If what you say is true...than any ole' 'good person' will make it to heaven...because you seem to be basing salvation on the work you are doing.  Your salvation has nothing to do with you.. 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Craig Baker on February 9, 2011 at 8:56am

thank-you Carla this is very thoughtful and well put

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 9, 2011 at 12:32pm

Carla,

 

Well said.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Carla on February 11, 2011 at 8:12am

LB,

This idea of sinless perfection is an important topic, i think it is worth beginning a new thread.  We can discuss it there..  because i believe that is the root of believing a person can loose their salvation.  This conversation is becomiing circular and divisive.

Here's a link that I've just started:

http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/sinless-perfection

Blessings, Carla

Volunteer NET Administrator

 

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Permalink Reply by Carla on February 10, 2011 at 7:38am

Yes..  Amen.  God has not forgotten about Israel.

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