Why can one not call another member by their denomination?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 3, 2011 at 4:56pm

David,

 

I am not sure of what you are talking about. My approach is honesty and I am afraid I cant change that, it is against my moral principles.

 

Please do not feel that you have to respond to my questions if you dont think 'my approach' is  right.

 

I meant NO HARM in my reply to Aslan. She didn’t seem to have taken offence, which is great and settles the matter for me. 

 

Please dont be overly zealous.

Thanks

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 4, 2011 at 10:52am

Yael,

 

Here is a song or two for you :) 

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 4, 2011 at 5:04am

Chris, I can only think of one thing to elaborate on that:

Christ, the new Moses, Gave GOD to ALL men. "Before you were not a people[...] now you are royalty [...]".

 

For non-Jews, Christ brings nothing more nothing less than eternal life.

 

Take care friend!

 

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 4, 2011 at 7:15pm

 

What Doctrines Are Fundamental?

by

John MacArthur

Copyright 2006, Grace to You.
All rights reserved. Used by permission.
 

  

How can a Christian determine which doctrines are essential and which are not?

To begin with, the strongest words of condemnation in all the New Testament are aimed at false teachers who corrupt the Gospel. Therefore the Gospel message itself must be acknowledged as a primary point of fundamental doctrine.

But what message will determine the content of our gospel testimony? Let’s turn to Scripture itself and attempt to lay out some biblical principles for determining which articles of faith are truly essential to authentic Christianity. 

I. All Fundamental Articles of Faith Must Be Drawn from the Scriptures

First, if a doctrine is truly fundamental, it must have its origin in Scripture, not tradition, papal decrees, or some other source of authority. Paul reminded Timothy that the Scriptures are “able to make thee wise unto salvation” (2 Timothy 3:15, KJV). In other words, if a doctrine is essential for salvation, we can learn it from the Bible. The written Word of God therefore must contain all doctrine that is truly fundamental. It is able to make us “adequate, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:17). If there were necessary doctrines not revealed in Scripture, those promises would ring empty.

The psalmist wrote, “The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul” (Psalm 19:7). That means Scripture is sufficient. Apart from the truths revealed to us in Scripture, there is no essential spiritual truth, no fundamental doctrine, nothing essential to soul-restoration. We do not need to look beyond the written Word of God for any essential doctrines. There is nothing necessary beyond what is recorded in God’s Word.

This, of course, is the Reformation principle of sola Scriptura -- Scripture alone. According to the Bible itself, no supposed spiritual authority outside “the sacred writings” of Scripture can give us wisdom that leads to salvation. No papal decrees, no oral tradition, no latter-day prophecy can contain truth apart from Scripture that is genuinely fundamental.

II. The Fundamentals Are Clear in Scripture

Second, if an article of faith is to be regarded as fundamental, it must be clearly set forth in Scripture. No “secret knowledge” or hidden truth-formula could ever qualify as a fundamental article of faith. No cryptic key is necessary to unlock the teaching of the Bible.

The truth of God is not aimed at learned intellectuals; it is simple enough for a child. “Thou didst hide these things from the wise and intelligent and didst reveal them to babes” (Matthew 11:25, KJV). The Word of God is not a puzzle. It does not speak in riddles. It is not cryptic or mysterious. It is plain and obvious to those who have spiritual ears to hear. “The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple” (Psalm 19:7).

The point is not that every fundamental article of faith must be supported with an explicit proof text. The doctrine of the Trinity, for example, is certainly essential to true Christianity-and it is very clear in Scripture-but you will find no comprehensive statement of the Trinity from any single passage of Scripture.

This does not mean that a doctrine must be non-controversial in order to be considered a fundamental article. Some would argue that the only test of whether something is essential to true Christianity is whether it is affirmed by all the major Christian traditions. By that rule, hardly anything of any substance would remain to distinguish the Christian Gospel from the “salvation” offered by pagan morality or Islamic theology. “There is much truth in the remark of Clement of Alexandria; ‘No Scripture, I apprehend, is so favorably treated, as to be contradicted by no one.’” (Herman Witsius, Sacred Dissertations on the Apostles’ Creed [Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian & Reformed, 1993 reprint], 1:21)

III. Everything Essential to Saving Faith Is Fundamental

Third, a doctrine must be regarded as fundamental if eternal life depends on it. Scripture is full of statements that identify the terms of salvation and the marks of genuine faith.

“Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). That verse makes faith itself essential to a right relationship with God. It also expressly identifies both the existence and the veracity of God as fundamental articles of the Christian faith.

Elsewhere we are told that eternal life is obtained through the knowledge of the true God and Jesus Christ (John 17:3; 14:6; Acts 4:12). Since Jesus Himself is the true God incarnate (1 John 5:20; John 8:58; 10:30), the fact of His deity (and by implication the whole doctrine of the Trinity) is a fundamental article of faith (see 1 John 2:23). Our Lord Himself confirmed this when He said all must honor Him as they honor the Father (John 5:23).

The truths of Jesus’ divine Sonship and Messiahship are also fundamental articles of faith (John 20:31). Of course, the bodily resurrection of Christ is a fundamental doctrine, because 1 Corinthians 15:14 tells us, “If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.”

Romans 10:9 confirms that the resurrection is a fundamental doctrine, and adds another: the lordship of Christ. “If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.”

And according to Romans 4:4-5, justification by faith is a fundamental doctrine as well: “Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.” In other words, those who seek acceptance before God on the ground of their own righteousness will find they fall short (Romans 3:27-28; Galatians 2:16-3:29). Only those who trust God to impute Christ’s perfect righteousness to them are accounted truly righteous. This is precisely the difference between Roman Catholic doctrine and the Gospel set forth in Scripture. It is at the heart of all doctrine that is truly fundamental.

In fact, an error in understanding justification is the very thing that was responsible for the apostasy of the Jewish nation: “For not knowing about God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God” (Romans 10:3). Is that not the precise failure of Roman Catholicism? But “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (v. 4).

IV. Every Doctrine We Are Forbidden to Deny Is Fundamental

Certain teachings of Scripture carry threats of damnation to those who deny them. Other ideas are expressly stated to be affirmed only by unbelievers. Such doctrines, obviously, involve fundamental articles of genuine Christianity.

The apostle John began his first epistle with a series of statements that establish key points of the doctrine of sin (hamartiology) as fundamental articles of faith. “If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth” (1:6). That condemns wanton antinomianism (the idea that Christians are under no law whatsoever) and makes some degree of doctrinal and moral enlightenment essential to true Christianity. A second statement rules out the humanistic notion that people are basically good: “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (v. 8 ). And a third suggests that no true Christian would deny his or her own sinfulness: “If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us” (v. 10).

First Corinthians 16:22 makes love for Christ a fundamental issue: “If anyone does not love the Lord, let him be accursed.” And a similar verse, 1 Corinthians 12:3, says that no one speaking by the Spirit of God can call Jesus accursed.

The truth of Jesus’ incarnation is also clearly designated a fundamental doctrine: “Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist” (1 John 4:2-3). “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist” (2 John 7). Those verses by implication also condemn those who deny the Virgin Birth of our Lord, for if He was not virgin-born, He would be merely human, not eternal God come in the flesh.

And since those who twist and distort the Word of God are threatened with destruction (2 Peter 3:16), it is evident that both a lofty view of Scripture and a sound method of Bible interpretation (hermeneutics) are fundamental tenets of true Christianity.

V. The Fundamental Doctrines Are All Summed up in the Person and Work of Christ

Paul wrote, “No man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11). Christ Himself embodied or established every doctrine that is essential to genuine Christianity. Those who reject any of the cardinal doctrines of the faith worship a “christ” who is not the Christ of Scripture.

How are the fundamentals of the faith personified in Christ?

With regard to the inspiration and authority of Scripture, He is the incarnate Word (John 1:1, 14). He upheld the written Word’s absolute authority (Matthew 5:18). Christ Himself established sola Scriptura as a fundamental doctrine when He upbraided the Pharisees for nullifying Scripture with their own traditions: “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far away from Me. But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’ Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.… You nicely set aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). Our Lord had much to say about the authority and infallibility of the Word of God.

In the doctrine of justification by faith, it is Christ’s own perfect righteousness, imputed to the believer, that makes the pivotal difference between true biblical justification and the corrupted doctrine of Roman Catholicism and the cults. That is what Paul meant when he wrote, “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Romans 10:4). It is also why Paul wrote that Christ is become to us righteousness (1 Corinthians 1:30), and it is why Jeremiah called Him “The Lord our righteousness” (Jeremiah 23:6). The Lord Himself, Jesus Christ, is our righteousness (Jeremiah 33:16). That is the very essence of justification by faith alone, sola fide.

Of course, all the fundamental doctrines related to the incarnation — the Virgin Birth of Christ, His deity, His humanity, and His sinlessness — are part and parcel of who He is. To deny any of those doctrines is to attack Christ Himself.

The essential doctrines related to His work — His atoning death, His resurrection, and the reality of His miracles — are the very basis of the Gospel (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Hebrews 2:3-4). Reject them and you nullify the heart of the Christian message.

The fundamentals of the faith are so closely identified with Christ that the apostle John used the expression “the teaching of Christ” as a kind of shorthand for the set of doctrines he regarded as fundamental. To him, these doctrines represented the difference between true Christianity and false religion.

That is why he wrote, “Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son” (2 John 9). Far from encouraging union with those who denied the fundamental truths of the faith, John forbade any form of spiritual fellowship with or encouragement of such false religion (vv. 10-11).

So What?

It has not been my purpose here to attempt to give an exhaustive list of fundamental doctrines. Such a task is beyond the scope of this article. Furthermore, the attempt to precisely identify and number such a list of doctrines would be an extremely difficult thing to do. However, a reasonable list of fundamentals would necessarily begin with these doctrines explicitly identified in Scripture as non-negotiable: the absolute authority of Scripture over tradition (sola Scriptura), justification by faith alone (sola fide), the deity of Christ, and the Trinity.

But what are we to do with this understanding? First of all, we should resist any temptation to wield these doctrines like a judge’s gavel that consigns multitudes to eternal doom. We must not set ourselves up as judges of other people’s eternal fate.

On the other hand, we must recognize that those who have turned away from sound doctrine in matters essential to salvation are condemning themselves. “He who does not believe has been judged already” (John 3:18). Our passion ought to be to proclaim the fundamentals with clarity and precision, in order to turn people away from the darkness of error. We must confront head-on the blindness and unbelief that will be the reason multitudes will one day hear the Lord say, “I never knew you; depart from Me” (Matthew 7:23). Again, it must be stressed that those who act as if crucial doctrines were of no consequence only heap the false teacher’s guilt on themselves (2 John 11).

We have no right to pronounce a sentence of eternal doom against anyone (John 5:22). But by the same token, we have no business receiving just anyone into the communion and fellowship of the church. We should no more forge spiritual bonds with people whose religion is fundamentally in error than we would seek fellowship with those guilty of heinous sin. To do so is tantamount to the arrogance shown by the Corinthians, who refused to dismiss from their fellowship a man living in the grossest kind of sin (1 Corinthians 5:1-3).

We must also remember that serious error can be extremely subtle. False teachers don’t wear a sign proclaiming who they are. They disguise themselves as apostles of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13). “And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness” (vv. 14-15). In view of the current hunger for ecumenical compromise, nothing is more desperately needed in the church right now than a new movement to reemphasize the fundamental articles of the faith.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 4, 2011 at 8:09pm

Why are there so many denominations of Christianity?

Why are there so many denominations in Christianity? The word denomination is clearly understood when used in reference to various values of currency. It is the name or title that we give to a group or class of units. Yet when denomination is used in reference to Christianity, the meaning is not as apparent.

Why are there so many denominations in Christianity? The word denomination is not found in the Bible. Jesus Christ never taught there should be divisions in the church with significant doctrinal differences. The original church was a single congregation of Christ's followers, distinct from the world. "So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch" (Acts 11:26). It is God's plan to encompass all believers into one body (Jesus Christ), connected through local churches, denominations, and affiliations which have their own particular name, doctrine, form of worship, and distinctive organization.

Religious division is certainly not a new concept. When the kingdom of Israel split into the northern and southern segments, each chose a different system of worship. Jeroboam and his advisors wanted Bethel to be Israel's chief religious center, intending to compete with Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:25-33). Though Jeroboam was a charismatic leader and organizer who had popular support, Bethel's religion became idolatry leading to Israel's eventual downfall.

Jesus realized that division creates a fertile ground for unbelief. "I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me" (John 17:23). The basis for this unity was the belief that Jesus was sent from the Father. Paul felt it imperative that there be no divisiveness in the church. He consistently urged unity. "Then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose" (Philippians 2:2).

So, if God desires unity why are there so many denominations of Christianity? Tradition in the Bible suggests "the concept of instruction that had been handed down from generation to generation." These instructions were often divinely given, as with many of the prophets. Paul praises the Corinthians for 'holding to' the teachings he passed on to fellow believers in Christ (1 Corinthians 11:2). Yet tradition can also originate from longstanding human practices that displace spiritual revelation. A denomination might hold fast to a man-made tradition that was handed down over centuries and ratified by the clergy. If the authorities believe that tradition is equal to the Scriptures, then the practice often becomes infallible. Divisions flourish when individuals are unable to differentiate between God's ordinances and man-made practices.

When the church at Corinth was faced with many elements of division, Paul encouraged cooperation among members, both Jew and Gentile (1 Corinthians 12:12). Despite their differences, each believer had one thing in common -- faith in Christ. This truth is where the church found its unity. Paul wanted to reinforce the relationship between the Jew and Gentile in the early church while discouraging competition among the churches belonging to Christ. "May God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 15:5-6).

Why are there so many denominations of Christianity? Some denominations may have a slightly different emphasis on the Scriptures. Other denominations may have adopted the name of their founder (Lutheran for Martin Luther) or a "method" for spiritual growth (Methodists). Baptists emphasize the importance of baptism. As believers, we all must share the same essentials of our Christian faith. God gives us unique personalities and abilities to worship, serve, and follow Jesus Christ, the head of the church. "There is one body and one Spirit . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:4-6).

http://www.allaboutreligion.org/denominations-of-christianity-faq.htm

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 4, 2011 at 8:34pm

The following article can be found and read in its entirety on:

http://www.reformationtheology.com/2007/04/love_unity_and_doctrinal...

Love, Unity, and Doctrinal Precision

It is currently in vogue within American evangelicalism to play against each other the complementary realities of Christian love and unity, on the one hand; and on the other hand, the necessity for a strenuous biblical precision in formulating and contending for those points of doctrine which are secondary in importance – that is, those doctrines which, to believe one way or the other, would not per se corrupt the essential purity of the gospel. A concrete example of such secondary matters would be one's beliefs in the debate between cessationism or continuationism of the so-called "sign gifts"; or else one's understanding of the nature of the millennial reign of Christ, or one's position on the mode of baptism.

 

Of those who (perhaps subconsciously) believe that these two realities are not entirely complementary, but to some degree mutually exclusive of one another, two basic camps tend to emerge: there are those who will accept into fellowship any professing believer, and thereupon studiously avoid any discussion that would call into question the doctrinal discrepancies between themselves – as if to reject one's doctrinal understanding of a matter were tantamount to denying that person the love and unity which ought to bind Christians together. On the other side, there are those who will not merely bring under scriptural scrutiny the erring doctrinal beliefs of another genuine believer in Christ and his gospel; but will, at the discovery of the most minute difference, essentially cut off all contact with that brother, implying in the transaction either that he is not a true Christian (and therefore, that for one to be a true Christian he must have an identical understanding of every point of doctrine, however minor); or that he is not a good enough Christian to be worthy of the unity and fellowship that by all scriptural accounts ought to characterize the church. Although these two descriptions characterize believers at the extreme ends of a very wide spectrum, I would contend that both varieties, as well all those Christians who are somewhere in the middle, are affected by the unspoken (not to mention thoroughly unbiblical) presupposition that these two basic approaches to Christian fellowship – love trumping doctrine or doctrine trumping love – are necessary antitheses; in other words, that, given the ongoing fallenness of Christians yet in the flesh, there must be a point at which one must make the choice between doctrinal purity or loving fellowship; and that a relative weight must therefore be assigned to each of the virtues in question. These metaphysical presuppositions lead, accordingly, to a grappling with practical questions along these lines: "How many doctrinal dissimilarities should I be willing to gloss over before I make a big deal of something?" "At what point should I refuse to cooperate/fellowship/associate with another Christian who believes differently than I?" "To what extent should I carry out my severance of fellowship?" "If I cannot join together with him to worship in church, may we still enjoy a cup of coffee together at the local diner?" My contention is that this sort of reasoning is informed by underlying errors in one's understanding of the true nature of love, of fellowship, and of purity. What we need is not more wisdom in determining the precise spot of "balance" on the continuum, the spot which would at once do justice to the importance of both love and doctrine. What we need is to call into question the metaphysical undergirdings of the continuum itself. Let us not be content to do the best we can within the paradigm we have been given; on the contrary, let us be careful that our paradigm reflects as closely as possible the paradigm of New Testament Christianity. That in itself is the larger portion of the battle.

 

In order to move from the realm of general abstractions to the more tangible realm of concrete examples, let's call into question a specific strand of feedback on this web page. "How," say some, "can everyone speak so certainly of the need for all Christians to be in fellowship with one another, and yet be so quick to attack any doctrinal understanding different from their own? How can it be loving to speak so negatively, for example, of Dispensationalism? Are they suggesting that Dispensationalists are not true believers?" This line of questioning is positing something very definite with respect to what love is. Love, in this way of thinking, is essentially affirmation, a recognition of the validity of the one loved to hold his own opinions. Love, in other words, is predicated on the lovableness of its object. But if this is the case, how could it have been possible, when we were sinners and unlovely, for Christ to express his love to us? This sort of love is not the kind of love that Christ has given to us. It is not Christian love. Now, what does this reasoning say about unity? Essentially, that unity is superficial politeness, the ability to get along with one another by avoiding topics which would bring to light the differences between us. The problem with this, once again, is that it is not a scriptural conception of Christian unity. Unity is founded, not upon superficiality and avoidance, but true commonality and partnership in precisely the same realities. Christians are united because, when they were sinners alike, they were given God's free gift of justification, and are now essentially righteous in Christ. Their fundamental reality, through the gospel, is that they are by nature children of light; and the commonality that inheres in being in the light is an inexhaustibly deep source of unity. Any practical denial of unity among Christians is a falsification of the essential commonality that they share. With regard to our discussion, this means that to assume that the rejection of a Christian brother's doctrine is a breach of fellowship is essentially the same thing as to assume that, for one to believe wrongly on any secondary matter is tantamount to his being removed from essential righteousness in Christ. Let me be more clear on this last point: to be in error on the mode of baptism does not exclude me from being counted righteous in Christ; being counted righteous in Christ is what likens me to other Christians – it is the source of my unity with them; therefore, being in error on the mode of baptism does not negate my unity with other believers who are correct on that point. Calling doctrine into question does not constitute a denial of essential unity; quite the opposite, it is the means by which we are enabled to reflect more accurately, in practical out-fleshing, the incontrovertible fact of our essential unity. We would do well to observe how Paul so often moves from essential reality to practical exhortation: e.g., "[Because] you are light in the Lord, walk as children of light" (Ephesians 5:8). So let us be content to reason, "Because we are in fact united, let us labor to think in unity on this particular point."

 

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 4, 2011 at 8:35pm

Dear Yael,

  

I said in a previous discussion: As a brother in the Lord and a minister of the Gospel I wil recommend the following: Abstain from calling anyone a Calvinist or Arminian unless they call themselves that. I think we all want to be known as bible believing Christians and not be defined by a title that brings so much controversy among us.

  

You commented the following :>>The bit tha gets to me is "we are bible believeing Christians and not be defined by a title  that brings so much controversy among us"

  

When quoting someone or something it is essential for the integrity of what the writer intended to convey with the comment to not ignore the context in which the quote was stated or the reasons for the comment.

  

First and foremost Arminianism and Calvinism/Reformed Theology are not considered denominations. They are the prominent theological systems in which most churches fall into. There are those who are a combination of these two theological schools of thought, there are others, but I dare say that 90% or more of the churches are either Arminian or Reformed in their theology. Secondly, the bible has many doctrines and at times it appears to be teaching things that contradict itself, but we know there are no contradictions in the bible and only lack of understanding in our part. I write this to say that growing in the knowledge of Christ is a process, a lifelong process in which we modify our beliefs as we continue to grow and learn. That process of course creates differences in our understand of scripture. Thirdly we do not follow a denomination or a man that comes up with a systematic way to arrange biblical doctrines; we follow the word of God first and foremost. God’s Spirit will lead us to all truth when we keep abiding in His word. However when someone identifies themselves as someone aligning in their theology to what Arminius or Calvin taught, then it’s perfectly ok to call them that, but for the most we want to be thought of as bible believing Christians.

  

Denominations do matter and I have never said different and I don’t recall ever reading anyone else say different either.

  

The following is from: http://www.redeemerfw.org/resources/christianfaith.html

The Primary Fundamental Doctrines of The Christian Faith

The primary fundamental doctrines are those which no person can deny and still be a Christian. That is to say, if a person denies one or more of these doctrines, that person is not a Christian, does not have the forgiveness of sins, and shall suffer eternal damnation. Over the years theologians have described these articles in different ways. But the following list includes all of the doctrines that must be believed.

1. The knowledge of sin and its consequences.
   • Isaiah 64:6
     We are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
   • Ezekiel 18:20
     The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
   • Romans 3:12, 23
     There is none that doeth good, no not one, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
   • Romans 6:23
     The wages of sin is death.
2. The doctrine of the Person of Christ (true man and true God)

2.  
   1. That Christ is true man
      • 1 Timothy 2:5
        There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
      • Luke 21:27
        And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
   2. That Christ is true God.
      • John 1:1, 14
        In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
      • Colossians 2:9
        For in Him [Christ] dwells all the fullness of the deity bodily.
      • John 10:30
        I and the Father are one.
3. The doctrine of the work of Christ
   0. He lived a sinless life for us.
      • 2 Corinthians 5:21
        God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
      • Hebrews 4:15b
        [Christ] was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
   1. He died for the sins we committed
      • John 1:29
        Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world.
      • John 3:16
        God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
      • 2 Corinthians 5:21
        God made Him [Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
      • 1 Peter 1:18-19
        Ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, . . . but with the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
      • Romans 5:10-11
        For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
      • 2 Corinthians 5:19
        God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them.
      • 1 John 2:2
        He [Jesus] is the propitiation [i.e., wrath appeasement] for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

[Personally I do not think a complete understanding of the Trinity (deity/Godhead) is necessary for salvation or to be a Christian, but some Christians do.]

4. The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity
   
   By confessing that we believe in the Trinity, we mean to say the following:
   0. There is only one true God, and that
      • Deuteronomy 6:4
      • 1 Timothy 2:5
      • Ephesians 4:6
      • Isaiah 45:22
   1. The one true God exists in three distinct and coequal Persons, namely, God, the Father; God, the Son; and God, the Holy Spirit.

4.  
   1.  
      • The Father is God.
        • 2 Peter 1:17
        • 1 Corinthians 8:6
        • Philippians 2:11
        • John 17:1-5
      • The Son is God.
        • John 1:1, 14
        • John 8:58 (together with Exodus 3:14)
        • John 10:30-33 (together with Leviticus 24:16)
        • John 20:28
        • Colossians 2:9
        • Isaiah 9:6
        • Isaiah 44:6 and Rev. 22:12-13, 16
      • The Holy Spirit is God.
        • Acts 5:1-4 (the Holy Spirit is identified as God)
        • Acts 13:2 (the Holy Spirit has personal attributes)

In the Athanasian Creed we confess the following:

Whoever will be saved shall, above all else, hold the Christian faith, which faith, except everyone keeps whole and undefiled without doubt he will perish eternally. And the Christian faith is this, that we worship one God in three persons and three persons in one God, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal. As there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. . . . This is the Christian faith which, except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

5. The Doctrine of justification by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (the central doctrine of the Christian faith).

5.  
   • Romans 3:28
     Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified [declared righteous] by faith without the deeds of the law.
   • Ephesians 2:8-9
     For by grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.
   • Galatians 2:16
     Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
6. The Doctrine of the bodily resurrection of Christ.
   • 1 Timothy 1:19-20
   • 2 Timothy 2:17-18
   • 1 Corinthians 15:12-19

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 5, 2011 at 3:01pm

Hi David,

I've got to go out now, but I comment on your reply later.

B4 I do, can you please explain who decided that "The primary fundamental doctrines are those which no person can deny and still be a Christian."

 

Thanks!

 

Yael

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 5, 2011 at 3:39pm

No problema girl.

 

The word of God decides. :) Most or all of questions will be answered if you read the articles I attached.

 

II. The Fundamentals Are Clear in Scripture

Second, if an article of faith is to be regarded as fundamental, it must be clearly set forth in Scripture. No “secret knowledge” or hidden truth-formula could ever qualify as a fundamental article of faith. No cryptic key is necessary to unlock the teaching of the Bible.

The truth of God is not aimed at learned intellectuals; it is simple enough for a child. “Thou didst hide these things from the wise and intelligent and didst reveal them to babes” (Matthew 11:25, KJV). The Word of God is not a puzzle. It does not speak in riddles. It is not cryptic or mysterious. It is plain and obvious to those who have spiritual ears to hear. “The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple” (Psalm 19:7).

The point is not that every fundamental article of faith must be supported with an explicit proof text. The doctrine of the Trinity, for example, is certainly essential to true Christianity-and it is very clear in Scripture-but you will find no comprehensive statement of the Trinity from any single passage of Scripture.

This does not mean that a doctrine must be non-controversial in order to be considered a fundamental article. Some would argue that the only test of whether something is essential to true Christianity is whether it is affirmed by all the major Christian traditions. By that rule, hardly anything of any substance would remain to distinguish the Christian Gospel from the “salvation” offered by pagan morality or Islamic theology. “There is much truth in the remark of Clement of Alexandria; ‘No Scripture, I apprehend, is so favorably treated, as to be contradicted by no one.’” (Herman Witsius, Sacred Dissertations on the Apostles’ Creed [Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian & Reformed, 1993 reprint], 1:21)

From the article: What Doctrines Are Fundamental?

By John MacArthur

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 5, 2011 at 5:44pm

David,

 

The word of God cannot decide problems by itself. It is NOT a self interpreting thing. It needs men to read it and interprete it. Lest why would you need ministers of the word?

 

Even when Jesus was around he would have to explain both the OT and his own teachings to people, because even though they were proficient in the OT, they still misinterpreted a number of things, they didnt understand what they read time and time again....

 

More importantly. If the word of God on its own was sufficient for a perfect understanding there would be NO disagreements. Because the BIBLE IS ONE and the SAME for all.

 

Clearly, the fundamental doctrines were outlined by Men, based on THEIR INTERPRETATION of the WORD of GOD.

 

Just look at History of Christianity. If the Word was sufficient to clarfiy people's understanding of things, would Luther had ever broken with the Catholic Church,  or would modern denominations ever disagree with one another? Couldn't they just open the bible and see who was right or wrong?

 

I am sorry, but I think you are off the mark.

 

Thanks anyway.

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Michael Vernon McEntire on January 6, 2011 at 11:56am

Unfortunately, not all christian ministers are eggheads, Aslan-christine.  Some are charlatans.  Some are well-intentioned, poorly-educated goofballs.  Some are very intelligent men and women with very talented mouths, who in previous generations would have made good salespeople or entertainers.  Some of them are talented preachers who in previous generations would have made good leaders (albeit not necessarily good pastor/counselors) in small-ish local congregations.  There are also many Christians who have gotten themselves into plenty of trouble by taking their own thoughts to be words from the Holy Ghost.  The Holy Ghost was given to us so that GOD could live with us, not so that we could all become Biblical exegetes- nothing could be clearer from Christian hisory than that.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 6, 2011 at 2:18pm

Yael,

 

>>The word of God cannot decide problems by itself.

I think I know what you mean and there is a reality to the bible you are not factoring in to it. Is essential to understand what constitutes the power and beauty of the bible and it is not the written word in its self though the bible is a beautiful book anyway you see it, full of history and ethical instructions and very wise proverbs and counsel. But without the Holy Spirits enlightenment is nothing more than another book. The word of God comes alive; it jumps off the pages when the Holy Spirit activates it per se. For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart (Hebrews 4:12). The natural, unregenerate person is not previewed to that part of the word though it its powerful enough to convict the hearts of the unregenerate person. The word of God can do MUCH more than simply decide problems by itself. It is able to renew the mind. The portion of the article I placed as an answered to your question does a wonderful job explaining how it was decided which doctrines are essential. The bible itself tells us which doctrines are essential; because of that fact the essential doctrines of Christianity have been the same for approximately the past 1700 years.

 

>>It is NOT a self interpreting thing

It sure is friend. The word of God interprets the word of God. What that means is that when a portion of scripture is not so clear or difficult to understand we continue to study and ask the Holy Spirit for understanding and wisdom and He will lead us in a short time or through a series of studies to the correct interpretation. The word of God by itself without the Holy Spirit’s work of enlightening the human mind is nothing more than a nice book, which can help you sleep, it is unfortunately the sleeping pill of millions, but when the Spirit quickens your Spirit and you are no longer just a natural person, but a Spiritual one hahaha Wow – let the blind say – I see.

 

Men do read it and interpreted and may even think that the Holy Ghost gave them the interpretation at times and unfortunately we err at times and it was not the Spirit, but one of many variables. However God will feed the hungry for righteousness and eventually the child of God will be presented with the truth, at that point is up to the person to rejoice and modify their erroneous understanding or hold on to the old.  By the Grace of God almighty we do have wonderful Pastors and teachers presently and throughout history we can learn from, but our meat comes from a one on one with the Lord in our private study time.

 

>>Even when Jesus was around he would have to explain both the OT and his own teachings to people

What Jesus would do is explain to them the deeper meaning or Spiritual meaning of the laws they already had, which the Jewish nation had missed in the midst of their legalism and religiosity. He used parables which He explained to them when they did not get it. That is what the Holy Spirit does; He explains to us the word in its deepest meaning. Interpreting scripture correctly does take the leading of the Holy Spirit, He helps us to find the meaning of the author’s words, intent and phrases, for He is the author of it. To interpret scripture correctly one must:

• Study the context of the passage and the theme of the book.
• Look up the actual meaning of each word in the original languages. (Not really necessary, but extremely helpful for those with a desire to go beyond the surface)
• Note the verb tenses, the cases, and other grammatical determinants.
• Learn the cultural setting of the passage.
• Determine what the original readers understood it to mean.
• Check out cross-references to see how the words are used in other contexts.
• See how the first mention of the word or topic is presented in the Bible.
• Confirm an interpretation with two or three similar passages.

I got the above list from: http://billgothard.com/teaching/hermeneutics the article is well done and I highly recommend everyone reads it.

 

I will share a bit more to get your taste buds wet: These are all proven study methods. However, it has always puzzled me how Bible scholars who claim to follow all of them arrive at totally opposite interpretations of the same passage.

For example, in a seminary in the Northwest, two professors wrote on the topic of divorce and remarriage. Each one assured his readers that he was following sound rules of Biblical interpretation. Yet, each one arrived at a view that was opposite of the other.

One day, I called up my former Greek professor at Wheaton Graduate School. He had written on the subject of hermeneutics, and I asked him if he could summarize the rules of hermeneutics in a concise list. His answer startled me. He said, “Bill, there is no such list.” I asked how we would know if we are breaking hermeneutical rules if there are no rules. He explained that there are certainly guidelines of interpretation. However, they cannot be confined to one set of rules.

So, what are the additional factors of correct Biblical hermeneutics?

1. Spiritual Perception Over Intellectual Understanding

2. God’s Revelation Over Human Reasoning

3. Genuine Love Rather Than Justification of Selfishness

4. Christ’s Commands Over Man’s Theology

5. One Interpretation and Many Applications

6. Correct Divisions of Truth Versus Truth Out of Balance

 

The writer goes on to give detail information about each of the above – enjoy! Proper hermeneutics requires diligent use of all the above factors under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The writer of the article concludes with the preceding statement and I say a big – Amen.

 

When interpreting the bible we must be aware of similes, parables, hyperbole and metaphors.  These forms of communication are used throughout the bible. When interpreting scripture we must also bridge the historical gap that exists due to the antiquity of the word.  However its antiquity does not take anything from its relevance to our lives today and to the lives of future members of humanity. No other book knows the human condition better.

 

>>they didnt understand what they read time and time again....

True they did not understand the words of Christ at times, the NT was not written yet, they wrote it after the death of Christ and so it wasn’t that they did not understood what they read. The Lord was training them and teaching them, they were not the same men after the Holy Spirit came to reside in them. They became world changers and the most brilliant scholars the world has ever known, because it was The Holy Spirit working through them. So it is with us, we do not understand but the Spirit leads us to all truth. Unfortunately some men full of zeal and not knowledge at times let that zeal take over and start new denominations according to what they think is a better understanding of scripture.

 

>>More importantly. If the word of God on its own was sufficient for a perfect understanding there would be NO disagreements.

Man – what planet are you living in? Humans disagree about everything on earth whether the truth about the thing they are disagreeing about is as plain as day. We are imperfect finite people trying to grasp an infinite, transcendent, almighty and loving God, so don’t blame the word for human in perfection.

 

>>Clearly, the fundamental doctrines were outlined by Men, based on THEIR INTERPRETATION of the WORD of GOD.

Clearly the fundamental doctrines were RECOGNIZED TO BE SO, BY THE WORD OF GOD MAKING SUCH A DISTINCTION. SERVANTS OF GOD RECOGNIZED THAT AND OUTLINED THEM. :)

 

>>Just look at History of Christianity. If the Word was sufficient to clarfiy people's understanding of things, would Luther had ever broken with the Catholic Church,  or would modern denominations ever disagree with one another? Couldn't they just open the bible and see who was right or wrong?

You continue to try to discredit the word or to take away from its clarity due to human imperfection. I hope you see your how wrong your concept is. You see how I can debunk your error without a sweat, well that is because the word of God is perfect; it is we who have the problem. We are selfish, self center, egotistical, stiff neck, rebellious, PROUD, stubborn, legalistic, self righteous, etc…

 

>>I am sorry, but I think you are off the mark.

I think you are running from what the Spirit is doing in your heart. I do not know your back ground and it doesn’t really matter. God is calling and you want excuses to run to your morals and values. Good luck with that. Yeah - Luck, what is luck and chance? The world’s wisdom is but a poor excuse to run from the truth. The truth is that God’s word is real and we humans are flawed, but don’t try to find excuses why not to believe the bible with arguments that are easily debunk. Answer the call.

 

You my friend first and foremost must:

Repent of your sins before a holy and merciful God and be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children. Repent and believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and savior. Repent of your sins and your eyes will be open and then you will see clearly.

 

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