All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Losing Salvation?
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If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
LOSING YOUR SALVATION -http://robertwells.tripod.com/losingsalvation.html
YOU CAN'T LOSE YOUR SALVATION OR HAVE IT TAKEN AWAY BUT.......
When you were saved you turned to God. Turning to God means the you have committed your life to trusting and obeying God. In John 1:6-7 it says, "If we claim to have fellowship with Him, yet we walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son, purifies us from all sin."
According to this text, "If we walk in the darkness, then we do not live by the truth." If our heart is not repentant when we sin, if our attitude is one of disobedience to the Laws and Commandments of God, if we turn away from God, if we live a life of sin, if we decide the effort to lead a Godly life is not worth it, if the actions of our lives indicate that we no longer desire to be one of God's children, then we don't lose our salvation, and salvation isn't taken from us, but we through our own free will, take our salvation and give it back to God. We tell God we don't want it. We give it up!!!
Ezekiel 3:20 "If the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die".
If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
So ask yourself this question. What is the only way to gain eternal salvation? There are a great many verses that tell us the answer. Below are just two of them:
Ephesians 2:8-9 "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God's gift."
1Peter 1:5 "Those who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
God makes salvation completely available through Jesus Christ - and not only to specific individuals, but to all who will receive and believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus made this very clear when he said, "Whoever believes in me would not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) The word "whoever" includes everybody. No person is excluded from the opportunity to believe and receive everlasting life.
Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are committing those sins mentioned in the above paragraph, then you simply don't believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions, certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
In other words you can not walk in the darkness unrepentant and still hold onto your salvation. Keep in mind that repentance is much more than stopping the very act of committing those sins that you are asking forgiveness for. Repentance is actually the act of turning away from doing those sins, of not committing them anymore, of changing your life in such a way as you no longer want or desire to commit those sins. You are the one who decides whether to walk in the light or the darkness. God gave you the free will to make your own choices. If you decide to walk in the darkness then your salvation will not be taken away from you, nor will you lose your salvation. No, what you will do is give up your salvation. You will be telling God that your salvation "is not worth the effort it takes to walk in the light". That you do not wish to have his gift of eternal salvation. That you want to make it through this life on your own without any help from God. That you will follow the ways of the world rather than the ways of our Lord. So your own free will determines whether you are going to keep your salvation or give it up. God allows your eternal future to be in your own hands.
Since your own free will is what determines your eternal destiny, then it is very important to note that God will not force anyone to come to him. He is not going to get down on his knees and beg you to believe him, trust him, or accept him. Nor will he force you to love him or demand your obedience. The choice is up to each one of us whether to surrender our lives and our hearts to God or to refuse his love and his blessings. If you don't want any part of Jesus Christ then he is willing to accept that decision since it was made by you through your own free will.
Our Lord did tell us that once we are saved, once we are looking to him for everything, once we have surrendered completely to him, then no one could snatch us away from him.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
So you can't be snatched way, but you sure can walk away.
There are a great many examples of this in the Bible but my favorite is in the book of Mark. It has to do with the story about the time Jesus arrived by boat to a town where he met a demon possessed man who was living in a graveyard. (You can read the entire story in Mark 5:1-21, and it is a great example of people exercising their free will and possibly putting their eternal salvation in jeopardy).
The Bible mentions that this demon possessed man was unusually fierce and dangerous, so much so that the townspeople could not even use the roads in fear that they would be harmed or even killed by this demon possessed man. The demons who resided in this man recognized Jesus and even talked with Jesus, and they knew that Jesus had the power to expel them from the man. So the demons seeing a herd of pigs in the distance, told Jesus that if he was going to expel them from this man, then would Jesus allow the demons to enter into the herd of pigs. So Jesus expelled the demons and the demons left the man and entered into the pigs. Suddenly the pigs realized something was terribly wrong and every single pig rushed over the cliff to their death. The pigs evidently realized that they would rather be dead than to have those demons living within them.
Now the pig herders saw all this happening and they went to the town and told everyone all the details. Verse 17 tells of the townspeople response. "Then the people began to beg Jesus to leave their area." So the response of the townspeople was to tell Jesus to get out of there because they were holding Jesus responsible for the destruction of a whole herd of pigs. They were furious at Jesus because of this economic loss. All that these people could do was to scream at him because they no longer had this herd of pigs. So you can see that the people's only concern was the economic loss of the pigs.
What is really interesting is Jesus's response.
Jesus didn't try to explain to the townspeople that they no longer had to worry about this very dangerous demon possessed man. That he was no longer a threat to their safety. Nor did Jesus ask them if they wanted to know why this formerly demon possessed man was now able to sit there quietly, fully dressed, and in his right state of mind. Nor did he try to tell them that if he could expel demons from this man, then just think of the demons that he could expel from the rest of the townspeople. Neither did Jesus ask the people if they wanted to find out more about this man who could expel demons or why he even did what he did, or why he even came there in the first place. And Jesus certainly didn't argue with the people that the price of the pigs was rather small compared to their peace of mind and their eternal future. Jesus didn't even ask these people if they wanted to learn about the one who sent him. Jesus didn't do any of these things because he could see that the only thing any of these people really cared about was the economic loss of the pigs. They had their minds all made up and money was the number one thing in their lives. They exerted their free will and told Jesus to leave town and leave town now. They had exercised their free will.
Using their own free will, those people wanted nothing to do with Jesus. Their only interest was in worldly things and because of that, they told Jesus to hit the road and go some place else and kill pigs. Jesus knew exactly what was in their hearts, and that their minds were closed to anything that Jesus had to say. So what did Jesus do? Jesus simply turned around, boarded the boat and proceeded across the water and went into his own city. Without a word, he simply turned and left, and very possibly took with him their eternal salvation.
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit".
John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".
1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Linda Ruth,
A true believer will not fall away.
1Jo 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that [fn] it would be shown that they all are not of us.
1Jo 2:20 [fn] But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
1Jo 2:21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and [fn] because no lie is of the truth.
1Jo 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the [fn] Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
here's another scripture to confirm that also:
2Jo 1:9 [fn] Anyone who [fn] goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
2Jo 1:11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.
Linda Ruth, logically speaking, if a person truly knows Jesus Christ, would they or could they really turn away. I don't believe they could. I believe they could walk in disobedience, but they could not turn away never to return.. God will discipline them back. He will not let them go.
Let's look at these scriptures:
2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the [fn] coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Th 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your [fn] composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a [fn] message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
This is referring to the Lord's second coming. This is during the tribulation, after the rapture takes place. I see that you are focusing on 'a falling away first'.. but again, IMO this is during the tribulation, after the rapture has already occured.
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, cleaving to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons, There are many false teachings and false teachers out there Linda Ruth. We have seen a fair bit even here online.
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, cleaving to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons,How can one depart if they were not in a place in the first instance?
The character of an apostate is outlines here:
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [fn] fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
1Ti 4:2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
1Ti 4:3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
1Ti 4:5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
The source of apostacy is demons. Part of this is deomonic doctrine that involves an attack on the believers liberty.. forbidding to marry, and to refrain from eating certain meats.. Legalistic apostacy will increase as church history unfolds in the last days.
another character of an apostate is this:
2Ti 3:5 holding to a form of [fn] godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.
What is the mark of an apostate? These false teachers are teaching destructive heresies:
2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2Pe 2:2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2Pe 2:3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
They deny the Trinity:
1 John 2:22,23
They deny the incarnation
1 John 4:2,3
2 John 1:7
They deny the second coming of the Messiah
2 Peter 3:3,4
They deny the person and the work of the Messiah
Jude 17-19
We can spot an apostate by their mockery. They will mock the inspiration of the scriptures, the virgin birth, the substitutionary death of The Messiah, and His physical resurrection from the dead. They will mock the doctrine of the second coming. Because they are denying the fundamentals of the Christian faith, this mockery results in division of the church. We can see in church history the division that has occured over the Trinity, the Incarnation and the Second Coming.
It is not that these apostates once had the Holy Spirit and turned away, it is that they were carried away by false teachings and never received the Holy Spirit in the first place.
Jhn 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Jhn 10:29 " [fn] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30 "I and the Father are [fn] one."
Jud 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, Jud 1:25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and [fn] forever. Amen.
Heb. 3:12. Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
I believe this was written a group of Hebrew Christians who were considering returning to judaism due to their lack of understanding and biblical knowledge. The purpose of the book of Hebrews was to establish the sufficiency and superiority of Christ as Messiah. If any person truly knows this and rests in it, I believe that it is impossible for them to turn away. God will keep them. I believe that they were close, but not quite there yet. This letter was written to help them mature in their knowledge and understanding.
I hope you don't mind that I have responded here. I look forward to hearing from you regarding what I have written.
Blessings, Carla -
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Permalink Reply by Sarah Gardener on
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Carla,
Blessings,
A true believer will not fall away.
If that were true and I was to believe it then I need to get rid of this scripture in my bible:
Mar 13:22 For false christs and false prophets will be raised, and they will give miraculous signs and wonders in order to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
It is true that there are ones that were never of us in the first place and they are tares.
Linda Ruth, logically speaking, if a person truly knows Jesus Christ, would they or could they really turn away. I don't believe they could. I believe they could walk in disobedience, but they could not turn away never to return.. God will discipline them back. He will not let them go.
I know of people that have.
This is referring to the Lord's second coming. This is during the tribulation, after the rapture takes place. I see that you are focusing on 'a falling away first'.. but again, IMO this is during the tribulation, after the rapture has already occurred (2 Th 2:1).
I strongly disagree with your interpretation of this scripture Carla and I am sure there are plenty of others who would such as:
Wesley: 2Th 2:3 Unless the falling away - From the pure faith of the gospel, come first. This began even in the apostolic age.
Scofield: (2) the apostasy of the professing church (2Th_1:3); (Luk_18:8); (2Ti_3:1-8).
JBF: a falling away — rather as the Greek, “the falling away,” or “apostasy,” namely, the one of which “I told you” before (2Th_2:5), “when I was yet with you,” and of which the Lord gave some intimation (Mat_24:10-12; Joh_5:43).
I could go on. I see the “Left Behind Series” has done its damage (IMO it is a strange doctrine). But this is another area and another discussion for I do not believe as you do in regard to the rapture of the church. I believe this warning is for here and now.
There are many false teachings and false teachers out there Linda Ruth. We have seen a fair bit even here online (1 Tim 4:1).
There are and many are departing from the faith – I am seeing it with my own eyes. Can all who are in Christendom be right – the word says that the road is narrow as Edwin has confirmed for us. We must be careful that we are not “serving man”.
The character of an apostate is outlines here:
I am aware of the character as the Lord has had me do 2 studies in the last month (the Lord had me do this study to equip me against people who would led me astray) – see here:
http://www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/the-twisted-fate-of-twisted
http://www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/follow-which-leader
Be careful who you follow – serve God Carla – not man. That is the message I got out of these studies. Test all things to see if it be so.
I disagree strongly with all that you have written and I am sure that we can go around in circles all day discussing it but we both probably will not change our minds – I am firm. I will stand in the word of truth as it is delivered to me with the Spirit’s understanding.
I guess there will come a day when we will know who is right and who is wrong – when he separates the sheep from the goats.
This is my last addition to this discussion as I have more pressing family problems and will be off-line for a while.
God Bless
Linda Ruth -
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In this we agree.. I've taken this from one of your blogs:
The doxology of verses 24-25 describes God’s power and His character. Servants of the Lord can take courage in these words for it says that He is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless. Halleluyah! Our God is our help but that does not negate our responsibility to abide in the word and test the fruit of those we come into contact with. We are to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves.
I will only add... my confidence is totally in God that He will keep us from falling. I abide in Him because it is my hearts desire to do so... That desire can only come from the Lord. We are to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves.. I agree... My responsibility to abide in the word is not because i think 'i better do it or else'.. my motive is quite the opposite of that.. rather it is 'I just want to be with my Lord who is keeping me and guiding me.'
I think it is very saddening that God's children are not living in a confident assurance that He will keep them. I believe the opposite of you in this.. You say you do not want to be presumptious.. i say.. i do not want to show any lack of faith or trust...so
i believe Him when He says He will never leave me nor forsake me. I don't see this as presumptious, rather i see it as abiding in Him acknowledging His Power.
We also must be careful to not depend on our works for salvation..we have nothing to boast about. Lord Bless, Carla -
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Then you would question my faith and trust and that of all the other people on here such as Edwin, Michelle and others who have contributed to the opposite. I will let God judge my faith and trust Carla not man. Just because I believe that I need to abide and heed the warnings in scripture does not mean I do not have faith or trust. Quite the opposite I think for faith without works is DEAD.
My faith and trust is this. It has been revealed to me that I have Ecephalitis of the brain due to an ongoing parasitic infection. My children are affected. My oldest son lies in a bed this morning with a headache that could kill an elephant and he has been like this for days. I could run to the doctors and hospitals as I have in past only to be sent home with a prescription for anti-depressant. They don't believe us. What am I doing now? - trusting in the one that has revealed and He will heal. My trust is in HIM. My faith is in Him. I will touch the hem of His garment and be healed. Not only me but my whole house.
I cannot boast - my only boast is in Him who keeps me by His word. My additions to this discussion are not from the point of view of boasting that I can but that of heeding the many warnings that are in scripture.
The Lord Bless Carla
P.S. I have violated my word in saying that the previoius post was my last but one cannot help but rebutt the accusation that I have no faith or trust. Now I will truly leave off. -
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Linda Ruth,
I asked some questions in order to get some perspective. They were not intended to come across as challenging or even as an attempt to sway you or anyone, that is between you and God. I tire of this debate, but wanted to see the reasoning behind some core issues for me from the other side’s POV. I thank you for replying. Since you asked me some questions in return it is only fair that I respond, but I don’t care to debate this any longer after this response. I have not been swayed by any of the arguments for losing one’s salvation, not that what I think matters. Most on both sides have not been swayed. This debate has been raging for many years and will continue until Christ’s returns IMO. No disrespect intended in my comment, but there just isn’t much else to say that hasn’t already been said.
One is saved when one repents, turns from their sins and is baptised. Yes, I am saved right now. But I can forfeit that salvation by committing a sin and not repenting.
Does one need to be re-baptized as well? Are you really saved if you can lose it? You are only able to say I hope I make it to the end. I could not imagine living the rest of my life wondering if I am going to make it.
Repentance is cofessing, turning in the opposite direction of the sin and in some cases restitution (which is rarely taught in the church today) such as this example:
There is another part of repentance that is also not often taught. The meaning of the root word means “a change of mind.” Repentance is a condition in which we have changed in our way of thinking. It goes way beyond simply an action, but affects the whole person. My repentance unto salvation is eternal. My mind has been forever changed. I know God is real, Jesus died for me, I needed salvation and He provided it when I surrendered to Him. This new way of thinking as the result of repentance is unchangeable because it is God initiated.
We are also exhorted to WORK OUT OUR SALVATION with fear and trembling. Why do we have to work it out LT if it is already guaranteed?
What does verse 13 state?
Being born again is a Spiritual Birth where we are sealed with Holy Spirit so that we can understand the things of a spiritual nature but we can grieve that Spirit by which we have been sealed with - Eph 4:30.
We are more than sealed, we are changed becoming new creations (2 Cor. 5:17). This is part of the reason why we cannot undo what has been done. Spiritually we are truly born-again with a new spirit that begins our new life in Christ as new born babes.
As Wesley says:
Eph 4:30 Grieve not the Holy Spirit - By any disobedience. Particularly by corrupt discourse; or by any of the following sins. Do not force him to withdraw from you, as a friend does whom you grieve by unkind behaviour. The day of redemption - That is, the day of judgment, in which our redemption will be completed.
KJV Eph. 4:30: 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Grieve and sealed are in the same sentence. We can grieve Him and yet He still holds us. There are consequences for grieving Him, but loss of salvation is not part of the package.
In regard to question 6 - I would ask you, "What is an APOSTATE"?
I believe that a person who sins as a born again christian can repent and if they repent they will be restored - again like the prodigal son.
You see the restoration as unto salvation and I see it as restoration as unto usability as seen in the example of Jesus washing the disciples feet.
God cannot be mocked - we cannot sin and expect to get away with it!
Praise God, that is why Jesus died, no sin is ever ignored.
A born again can be restored by repentance and restoration. A born again can and does sin and sin separates us from God. That is restored by repentance.
Restored to a position of usability.
I to am settled in my belief LT and I am curious as to how others can be so sure that that have already WON a race that they are still running. If we neglect, training (living the word of God), eating right (abiding in His word and making it a part of us that we are living stones) and discipline (taking thoughts captive etc) in all these things - do we expect to win the race?
I am not running to remain saved. The race of salvation was won at the cross and applied by the blood. I am living as a child of God, bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus. I am not perfected, but being perfected. That is sanctification.
Regarding Jude 1:24
What does the verse say? Now to Him who is able to keep you from … and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy I am kept by Him and will not stumble.
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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LT,
This is true - I have no desire to debate either but will leave you with this:
Does one need to be re-baptized as well? Are you really saved if you can lose it? You are only able to say I hope I make it to the end. I could not imagine living the rest of my life wondering if I am going to make it.
No one does not need to be re-baptized. I was totally washed when born again but simple need just a foot washing now :-)
Thats correct I can only say that I do WITH THE LORD'S HELP make it to the end:
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are the ones keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.
That is cheerful endurance which makes it over the finish line to attain the prize that Paul talks about:
1Co 9:24 Do you not know that those running in a stadium indeed all run, but one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain.
1Co 9:25 But everyone striving controls himself in all things. Then those truly that they may receive a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 So I run accordingly, as not uncertainly; so I fight, as not beating air;
1Co 9:27 but I buffet my body and lead it captive, lest proclaiming to others I myself might be disapproved.
It is the fact that I don't presume that makes me push harder on in the race LT. Would I bother to train, eat right and discipline myself if I knew I had won the race.
There is another part of repentance that is also not often taught. The meaning of the root word means “a change of mind.” Repentance is a condition in which we have changed in our way of thinking. It goes way beyond simply an action, but affects the whole person. My repentance unto salvation is eternal. My mind has been forever changed. I know God is real, Jesus died for me, I needed salvation and He provided it when I surrendered to Him. This new way of thinking as the result of repentance is unchangeable because it is God initiated.
Then why do we have scriptures that talk about taking thoughts captive and brining it into obedience to Christ. If our minds are forever changed then why do we not do what is good but still sin. Paul mentioned he struggle in Romans 7:18-25. I would wish for this forever changed mind but my mind still wants to sin so I have to take the thought captive and bring it into obedience to Christ - the Word. I say in situations of temptation, "I reject that thought in the name of Jesus". I say it over and over again until it is gone. Thus resist the devil and he will flee.
What does verse 13 state?
Php 2:13 for it is God who is working in you both to will and to work for the sake of His good pleasure.
That is I am not alone in the working out process that He is with me and I can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens me.
We are more than sealed, we are changed becoming new creations (2 Cor. 5:17). This is part of the reason why we cannot undo what has been done. Spiritually we are truly born-again with a new spirit that begins our new life in Christ as new born babes.
Thats right BECOMING new creations. Becoming to me speaks of a process that we ourselves can thwart by our foolishness. We can resist the Spirit with which we have been sealed with.
KJV Eph. 4:30: 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Grieve and sealed are in the same sentence. We can grieve Him and yet He still holds us. There are consequences for grieving Him, but loss of salvation is not part of the package.
The Lord was grieved that He made man upon the earth when they continued in their sin and what happened? Has God changed? He is patient but His patience can run out - a risk that we don't want to take:
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear that it may be He will not spare you either.
Rom 11:22 Behold, then, the kindness and severity of God: On those having fallen, severity. But on you, kindness, if you continue in the kindness. Otherwise, you will also be cut off.
You see the restoration as unto salvation and I see it as restoration as unto usability as seen in the example of Jesus washing the disciples feet.
The parable states that the SON was LOST but now he is FOUND. So while he was wallowing in the pig poo he was lost but when he repented he was found and restored to full sonship. We do see this differently.
I am not running to remain saved. The race of salvation was won at the cross and applied by the blood. I am living as a child of God, bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus. I am not perfected, but being perfected. That is sanctification.
I am mindful of my obligations in the covenant LT. A covenant has requirements on behalf of both parties. I do not want to be presumptious with my Lord and Savior. I would rather say, "have mercy" than "I thank God I am not like". I just want to remain humble and pliable in the hands of my Savior.
I guess this scripture sums it up for me:
1Co 10:12 So that he that thinks to stand, let him be careful that he not fall.
Yes, I can see your faith in believing that He will keep you LT and I too have the same faith that He will keep me but I do see in scripture plenty of warnings that are for our heeding.....
The Lord Bless you!
Linda Ruth -
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Linda Ruth,
I could respond to each comment and the endless debate would continue, but I will not :-)
You have the last word ... except for this comment telling you that you have the last word :-)
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Amanda,
Look into your heart. Do you believe in Him? Have You trusted Him? Your faith in Him testifies to your salvation. Salvation is the process by which you are taken out of one kingdom and placed into God's Kingdom. You have asked a question that will get different response. I personally believe one has to be born again before they can believe. Others will say it is at the same time that one is born again and is saved.
You cannot determine anyone's salvation other than your own. Whether or not this person that has brutally attacked another is really saved is up to God. He has the power to save anyone and I am very grateful for that for He has saved me from my sins. Any of us could commit a horrible sin. I am grateful that God will keep us in the midst of our weakness. All sin is horrible. You cannot say one is worse than the other. There are no acceptable sins. He must save us from them all. That is what He has done. His blood covers our sin. That part is over with. Our sins are completely paid for - past, present and future. Even in the midst of your deepest, darkest night, He will be with You. He will never leave you or never let you go. You do belong to Him. You have given yourself to Him and asked Him to save you. That prayer is answered. You are His and His alone. Satan can never have you back.
Please don't leave AAG. You have the prayers of many on here. You are obviously going through some heavy stuff. Here, you have the support of many.
You are absolutely forgiven of all your sins. His blood is absolutely sufficient. You can never take back what you have committed to Him. You entered into a blood covenant that is permanent. The blood was His and the commitment was yours. That is a covenant. You entered that covenant knowing how much You needed Him. He obviously needed you as well. He gave His life for your salvation. Never think His sacrifice could not cover any of your failures whether great or small. His grace and His work is completely sufficient for all your needs.
God bless you.
Roy -
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Permalink Reply by Edwin Muir on
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PARTS OF THE STORY OF THE SEED SOWN OR THE SEED THROWN OR CAUGHT AWAY
FROM THE HEART.
Being a doer of the Word is probably a sign of The Word taking a little root.And salvation being laid hold of.?!
Jn 8.31;Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Is 34.16 ;KJV and vultures can`t read but boy can they bother a body that close to dying.
Or a Soul having been given some REAL BREAD THEY NEED TO SNATCH AWAY! Ec;-and there is no discharge in that war;Ps 59.4 warns of the enemies faultless plans to steal but for the grace we are all lost in a moment.Lam 3.22 Jer 4.20.
Press through and read till it fills that need,*He* see`s and understands your sincerity of motive.
Trying to submit (Jude 20 even)and nothing too much working.
WELL TRY THE NEXT STEP.
James 4.7;Submit yourselves therefore to God. RESIST the devil, and he will flee from you.
And part of that could be;
2 Cor 4.2;But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
Ec 8.8;There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
Be careful to maintain good works for this is profitable - - - - -by FAITH not FEELINGS. -
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Permalink Reply by Michael Vernon McEntire on
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I should be ashamed of myself for doing this, but... What if all of the New Testament (with the possible exception of John's Gospel) was written before AD 70? What if all "The Law and the Prophets" were fulfilled in AD 70 (when Jerusalem was destroyed), and a new Dispensation began then? What if all of the New Testament was written in fading glow of the Law and the Prophets, and the emerging light of the new Dispensation that was about to dawn (in AD 70) and burn away the "heavens and earth" (all the old rules, principalities, and powers)? If you're intrigued, try reading the Gospel of John with no "ifs, ands, or buts" (only periods) after every statement about Salvation!
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Greetings all,
Well, after almost 400 responses to this forum we have come to the point where we have entered into circular debate. There is ample information here for a person to read through if they have questions regarding this topic. After all this time we are left with three prevalent views.
1) A person can lose their salvation because of sin.
2) A person can only lose their salvation if they walk away from God.
3) A person can never lose their salvation.
This thread will now be closed. To continue to add to this one will only lead to further confusion on the topic. The topic can be picked up again later in a new forum if anyone wishes to do so, but this one is exhausted and too large to be user friendly.
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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