ASSURANCE!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 23, 2010 at 10:03am

Ron,

What I am asking is this: if I have the freedom to choose whether or not we will receive this free gift of salvation, what will stop me from choosing to walk away from it once I have it. How does the doctrine of justification stop me from becoming so frustrated with all that is happening in this world and come to the conclusion that a loving God would never allow all this to happen? What stops me from walking away from Him once I have freely chosen Him?

Do I have the freedom to walk away once I have freely chosen to receive this free gift of salvation? What is there in the doctrine of justification that would stop me? Am I not free to choose anymore - does the doctrine of justification completely take away my free will? Does the doctrine of justification cover me regardless of how evil I become?

Roy

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 23, 2010 at 11:38am

Hi Roy and Grazer....
Something has gone wrong with AAG in that you both come up on one page and now the "Reply to this" does not appear. I had to move up to this area in order to continue our chat

Roy to answer your question I have to rephrase it like this: "What stops you from accepting Christ in the first place?' The answer is: "Simply Unbelief."
You also asked: "Does the doctrine of justification cover me regardless of how evil I become? My answer is this: "Is there a limit on the power of Christ to forgive?"

BUT! Should you wish and continue to remain evil, then I believe God will not allow you any freedom or satisfaction through the doctine of Justification but rather a door will be left open for Satan to have free sway over you. Trusting that you will either come to your senses or perish. It is obvious that a man such as this, never accepted or turned to Christ for forgiveness in the first place.
To the next question I would answer: "If through repentance you truly believe and truly accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour. It becomes impossible to walk away because of the New Birth where you have become a new Creation.

Your Justification has nothing to do with your staying power, it is your faith that stops you from walking away. But it is your correct understanding of Justification that decides whether you will remain joyful when your assurance/faith is challenged, or miserable and insecure when you look to yourself rather than the reality of what Justification brings.

Sadly I don't think I am wrong when I say that millions of Christians accept the accusations the devil throws at them when they dont undestand that in God's sight they have become fully Justified through faith in Christ. Instead they turn their gaze inwards to themselves only to find that in their own eyes they fear that they remain condemned unless THEY do something to change it. They do not see themselves as already Justified through Christ, in God's sight.

To Grazer, Yes! You are absolutely right when you speak of the importance of love and fellowship between Christians and their display of Love to a lost world.
The Bible definitely has all the answers, we just need to know where to find them in order to point others in the right direction and where they can find it in the Bible should they want to look for themselves.

Blessings
Ron.

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 23, 2010 at 11:30am

Hi Ron, Beloved brother..

To be assured of our salvation, we must know who we are in Christ! What are the positional truths of who we are in Christ? This is a magnificient large study to do..but a very important one. We are identified as being in union with the Messiah as a result of our salvation...by the Grace of God.

We are crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20
we have died with the Messiah (Col 2:20
we were buried with the Messiah (Rom 6:4
we are made alive with Christ (Eph 2:5
We are resurrected with the Messiah (Col 3:1
We suffer with the Messiah (Rom 8:17
We will be Glorified with the Messiah (Rom 8:17
We are joint heirs with the Messiah (Rom 8:17

We are redeemed-The price of redemption was the blood of the Messiah. This means we have been purchased out of the slave market of sin.
We have been reconciled-The world was in a state of alienation from God--The was all changed by the Messiah's death. Reconciliation rendered all men 'savable'. This does not mean all men will be saved. There is an element of personal faith.. But all men are savable (Rom 5:10,11-II Cor 5:18,19-Col 1:20,21,22) This means the offending mankind is being reconciled back to the offended God.
propitiation-The wrath of God is satisfied because of what Jesus did-God is no longer angry at the believer (Rom 3:25; 1 John 2:2; 4:10)
Forgiveness-All the sins of a believer past, present and future have been forgiven Eph 1:7; Col 1:14 & 2:13). There is no sin that a believer can sin to cause them to loose their salvation.
Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven [fn] you.
The term 'In Christ'--The application is that since the believer has been forgiven, he should forgive fellow believers who have wronged him.

Col 3:13 Is such an important scripture: Col 3:13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
Since the believer has been forgiven, so he should also forgive others.

We are Justified-we are declared righteous. This means that our faith results in the imparting of Christ's Righteousness to us. (God's Grace leaves me in awe--and oh so thankful)

We are delievered--Delivered from the power of darkness.. We are no longer under any obligation to serve satan.

We have been circumcised-This is a circumcision of the heart. This involved putting off the deeds of the flesh and walk righteouslessly before the Lord. Col 2:11

We are acceptable to God-Eph 1:6 and 1 Peter 2:5
Rom 5:11-21; ICor 1:30; IICor 5:21--Because of teh Messiahs's righteousness-we are Righteous also
ICor 1:2, 30; 6:11-We are sanctified therefore we are called 'Saints'.
Heb 10:14-We are perfected forever
John 3;18; 5:24; Rom 8:1-we are acceptable to God becasue we are not condemned by our sins.
Col 1:12-We are qualified

We have the first fruits of the Holy Spirit-Rom 8:23
We are born again-John 3:5,6 Titus 3:5.
We are baptised by the Holy Spirit-Rom 6:1-10 ; I Cor 12:13
We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit - Rom 5:5; 8:9; I Cor 3:16; 6:19; Gal 4:6...etc..
We are sealed--this involves assurance by the Holy Spirit- II Cor 1:22, Eph 1:3-14; 4:30
We are empowered for service-Eph 5:18

We are in the foreknowledge of God--Rom 8:29; Eph 1:5,11,12; I Peter 1:1 2 etc..

We are based on the Rock-Jesus is the rock-- Matt 7:24-27; ICor 3:19-15; Eph 2:20-22; I Peter 2:4-6

We are transferred into God's Kingdom--II Peter 1:11. Colossians 1:13-delievered out of the power of darkness-they no longer have any legal authority over the believer. Therefore, we are to walk consitently in an orderly manner as scripture commands (i Thes 2:12)

We are citizens of heaven--Luke 10:20; II Cor 5:1-2; Eph 2:19; Phil 3:20; Heb 12:22-24; I Peter 2:11-12
Therefore we are told to keep our minds on heavenly things not on earthly things. We are still here on earth.. But we are to be the light and salt while we are here.

We are in the Family of God--I Cor 3:9; Gal 6:10; Eph 2:19-20; I Peter 2:5

Ron--these are just some of the positional truths of what it means to be 'In Christ'. There is far too much to type here. I'm on a new laptop..and I'm just getting used to typing on it (I'm hitting the backspace key alot). :)

Once we know these and other positional truths, i believe we will be assured of our Salvation and Jesus meant it when He says this:
Jhn 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
Jhn 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Jhn 10:29 " [fn] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. Jhn 10:30 "I and the Father are [fn] one."
Praise God-- We belong to Him and He will not let us go.

Blessings and Love in Christ, Carla

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 23, 2010 at 7:50pm

Hi Linda Ruth,


Excellent question.
This is the scripture (obviously as you know--but posting it for those who don't)...
Rev 3:4 'But you have a few [fn] people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

Rev 3:5 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Rev 3:6 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

I know that Ron will answer you.. I always learn so much from his posts also.

I just want to share how I am reading this:

'and I will not at all blot his name out'.. reinforces what Jesus promises in the NT... " and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."

To me this means "Rom 8:38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and even the powers of hell can't keep God's love away."


I will not blot them out.. means 'it has never entered my mind to do so--and it cannot happen.'
Love and Blesssings, to you..
In Him, Carla

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 23, 2010 at 8:44pm

hi Linda Ruth,

Yes I think what you say is true.. Steadfastness in Him and focusing on regeneration is the thing..

God does this work in us when we abide in Him. However, the believer will abide in Him.. We may rebel at times and step away from Him.. But He disciplines us and always brings us back. His Power holds us and keeps us. HE gives us this desire to remain steadfast.

I learn so much from Paul Washer also.. I am always convicted when listening to Him.. and I am also always encouraged. I would personally love to see the video..could you post me a private link?

God Bless you also..
In Him, Carla

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 25, 2010 at 2:17pm

Hi there Carla and Linda, Lights of my life,

Lotsa love to you both. Also lotsa questions hey! OK lets see what can be said here.. Firstly it would appear that we have a hint of losing out on your Salvation...... I can't accept that. Lets look at your verses.

The Children of Israel had many books from way back in their history . The Book of Life, The Book of Genealogies, The Book of God etc etc. Each book acted as a reference Book. Births and Deaths, transactions made and broken, etc. etc. When it comes to the book of life it's reference was to life on earth and eventual death.
When Moses suggests his name be blotted out of the Book of life, He is basicly saying as we have possibly done at some time ourselves: "Lord just end my life now blot it out of your book Book of life, I don't want to live here on this sad old earth any more." Lets look at the following verses you put forward, with the above explanation in mind


Exo 32:32 And now if You will, lift up their sin. And if not, I pray, blot me out from Your book which You have written. Do we really believe that Moses would ask God to send him to Hell? No it's just a way of saying: "I'm tired Lord, I just want to die." This is how we say it today. In Moses' time it was said differently: "Just blot my name out of your book - the book of life - Lord I can't handle this anymore.

Exo 32:33 And Jehovah said to Moses, Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him from My book.
WHICH BOOK????????? THis could be the book of life which means should they continue in sin, God will shorten their lives. Obviously they are also on the cards for punishment.

Psa 69:28 Blot them out from the Book of Life; yea, let them not be written with the righteous. Here again "Let them be blotted out - They shall be blotted out from the land of the living. They shall be cut off from life, which they have forfeited by their cruelty and oppression. Their lives will be shortened. I don't want them living with righteous people." We can be sure that their lives were therefore shortened and they would face God's wrath. But again keep in mind it's speaks
about blotting them out. It is referring to their lives on earth being brought to closure. After that they will face the music.


Rev 3:5 The one overcoming, this one shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not at all blot his name out of the Book of Life; and I will acknowledge his name before My Father, and before His angels. Here God is saying that the man will have a long life worthy of his good deeds. After that he will receive rewards especially in Heaven.

Is it not until the later day that Jesus will sort out the sheep from the goats? Is it not required of us to overcome as it says in Rev 3:5? Some of those goats genuinely thought they had made it and even questioned Jesus - but LORD didn't we....... Yes this is judgment day and many are in for a shock. The fact that God says He will not "Blot out a name" is a repeated word of assurance to us rather than a veiled threat that he may or could in fact blot us out.

Sleep well ladies safe in the arms of our Lord and Saviour.

Your Advocate has promised that "None shall pluck you out of His hands." THANK YOU LORD JESUS.

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 25, 2010 at 2:56pm

GOOOOOOD to hear from you.

Remember Angel, Paul was given almost the entire New Testament to reveal Christ's heart to us. He must have been a very special man once he was converted, much like his Master Jesus .... Therefore I can well expect a man like him also prepared to give up himself for sinners just as Jesus did.

I was getting a little downhearted not hearing from My Mate Rod and his lovely bride. If "Aussie" wasn't so far away I would come and settle you both for ignoring me...
Please keep in touch in order for us to pray intelligently.

Your "Mate"
Ron

Love you both

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 25, 2010 at 3:01pm

Dear Ron.. Truly. I know that nothing can separate us from the Love of God.. and also that no one can pluck us from His hands. Praise God! He is faithful. I am assured of Salvation. I also believe that these are words of assurance..that Jesus will not blot out our names from the book of life..

And I know it has nothing to do with me. Blessings and Love to you and Gene

It's good to hear from you on these forums... Will we be seeing more of you? I hope so.. :-)

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 25, 2010 at 3:24pm

Dear beautiful sis. I hear your heart on this.. God knows our weaknesses...

Be reassured, and ecouraged.. You can be assured..and still remain vigilant.
Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 26, 2010 at 12:40am

Hi Carla and Linda,

I wonder why my computer continually blows up or gets struck by lightning?
It was hit on Sunday night again and yesterday was spent getting it repaired.
This is not the first time this year. I must be doing something right that leads to
these continual attacks.
My Bride is not coping, I am afraid the effects of the last two operations one after the other, lasting some hours, has pulled her down. Her memory has gone out the window.
She has forgotten and can't remember that we are married. That's nice in a way cause now I have arranged with our church that she and I have a marriage ceremony at Christmas time, once again. Please pray for us.

Ron n Gene.

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 26, 2010 at 10:20am

Hi Ron,

I'm so sorry to hear about this. God Bless you both. I will keep you in my prayers.
The 2nd wedding is a wonderful idea..
Love in Christ, Carla

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 26, 2010 at 10:25am

Ron,

I may disagree on your position of free will but I will certainly pray for you and your wife. How many years have you been married? I know God has mightily blessed you in your life. I can tell by your posts.

God bless you,
Roy

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