Is Glenn Beck a Christian?

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 8, 2010 at 5:02am

My brother Roy,

Amen and amen!!!

You are not a lone brother, your sentiments are shared by many still fighting the good fight, but the majority does slumber and conform to the demands of the world.
As I watched Glenn, I could not stop thinking how great it would be for a man of God with the correct gospel to be where he is at, with equal or greater zeal and passion. I still do not know enough about this man to opinionate on his views, but I do suspect his boldness to proclaim his faith is opening curiosity for his religion among those that are like the waves that come and go.

Blessings bro.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 8, 2010 at 1:52am

Beloved Roy,

I understand that your original post did not intend to scrutinize the Mormon religion, but I hope that in view of the many comments that have accumulated here in reference to the validity of a Mormon being a brother you bare with me as I attempt to briefly touch on the reasons why the Christian Church has created Primary and secondary doctrines, to deal with the issue at hand.

This is a subject we have looked at in past discussions, but never by actually dealing with a particular religion, as far as I recall. This type of scenario, where we are being conflicted within, by our Christian beliefs agrainst supporting a gentlemen that proclaims Christ as Lord and Savior, but the difficulty presents it self when we understand that his Christ is not my Christ, merits an answer.

We all know that we cannot judge the heart of men. We know that, if we don't, we need to understand that only God has that right. We do know the Lord has giving us clear instructions for us to examine ourselves to know if we are in the truth. Also to be able to determine if we or someone else is walking in the light. We will know them by__________ and ______ and_____ etc.

God wants us to be able to know who is and who is not abiding in Him. Again we do not know the heart and we understand that people (as we probably experienced ourselves) will go through their droughts and valleys for different amounts of time and we should never rush to judge anyone’s present conditions. Some will go back to the vomit for however long they are permitted to. Keeping in mind the different variables mentioned above, plus others not mentioned, we understand those things are real within the Christian experience.

However here another difficult issue in Christianity has come up. Difficult because none of us likes to be judge over people's salvation, we know that is God's domain. Having said that, I ask you all to consider the following and feel free to enhance it or share your views about it.

How much can a religion change the Nature of God and still be considered Christian?

I will not touch on all the reasons why Mormonism has been deemed a Cult, but rather I will like to post a few questions and then use portions of an article to expand on my thoughts.

1.God has not only giving us ways to know if we are in the truth, but has revealed to us what the truth about his Nature is. How much of that information can be distorted and not harm the Gospel drastically?

2. Is God offended by humans changing His nature and making Him a created being, or a being that started off as human and gradually worked its way to becoming divine?

3. Does God accept the confession of faith of someone who has accepted a different Jesus?

4. Can God overlook the fact that someone is in a cult, but has truly believed and answered His effectual call while engaged in a cult?

What makes a church or group non-Christian?
by Matt Slick
The entire article can be found at: http://carm.org/what-makes-church-or-group-non-christian

The definition I use (and other Christian ministries and theologians use as well) for "non-Christian cult" or "non-Christian religion" is a group that may or may not include the Bible in its set of authoritative scriptures. If it does include the Bible, it distorts the true biblical doctrines that effect salvation sufficiently so as to void salvation.1 If it doesn't use the Bible, it is a non-Christian religion and does not participate in the benefit of divine revelation.

In Christian bookstores, there are almost always 'cult' sections which include the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. So, I am not alone in describing what a non-Christian, bible based cult is. Nevertheless, what makes something non-Christian is when it denies the essential doctrines of the Bible.

•The Deity of Christ, which involves The Trinity
•the Resurrection, and
•Salvation by Grace

All of them add to the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Some cult groups even add to the Bible, i.e., Mormonism which has the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price.

Cults add their own efforts, their own works of righteousness to the finished work of salvation accomplished by Jesus on the cross. All Cults say that Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient, but that our works must be 'mixed with' or 'added to' His in order to prove that we are saved and worthy of salvation. They say one thing but believe another.

In Mormonism Jesus is the brother of the devil begotten through sexual intercourse from a God who came from another planet.

Ok I will stop here for now.

Blessings family.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 8, 2010 at 5:20am

David,

I am in absolute agreement with you on the doctrinal position of the Mormon church. It is as messed up as you could possibly get. I personally am insulted by their doctrine of Christ. My first reaction is that I don't want anything to do with anyone that believes God had a relation with Mary. That is so absurd and offensive. Jesus is my beloved and I will never compromise with anyone about Who Christ is. I would rather die.

But, at the same time, I want a better nation for my grandkids. I think we are in danger of losing some of our most fundamental rights such as the freedom of religion. I would rather go back to the days of decades ago where Christians and Mormons went at each other. Today, I think we are going to have to join hands to get anything done. I have come to the conclusion that many of us Christians are too lazy to do it.

However, David, I know that doesn't include you.

But, think of this: when Jim Garlow and other Evangelical leaders out there in California called for help in the Prop 8 movement, 25,000 showed up to help him. 24,000 of them were Mormons if I have my facts straight. I know with your mighty research skills that you will correct me if I am wrong.

How much support should we give to Beck? Is he secretly supporting Mitt Romney, another Mormon? I do have to admit that I was a little surprised by those who acknowledged Beck's salvation.

Your signed and sealed brother,
Roy

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 8, 2010 at 1:53am

Are Mormons our family in Christ with such beliefs?

http://carm.org/mormon-beliefs
Mormon Beliefs documented
Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-Mormon writers:

1.Book of Mormon

A.The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461.)

2.Devil, the

A.The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192.)
B.Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)

3.God

A.God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
B."The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans..." (D&C 130:22).

4.God, becoming a god

A.After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
B."Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).

5.God, many gods

A.There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
B."And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).

6.God, mother goddess

A.There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
B.God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).

7.God, Trinity

A.The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

8.Heaven

A.There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).

9.Holy Ghost, the

A.The Holy Ghost is a male personage (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discources, vol. 5, p. 179).

10.Jesus

A."Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
B."The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). C."Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).

11.Joseph Smith

A.If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).

12.Pre-existence

A.We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).
B.The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
C.The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

13.Salvation

A."One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).
B.A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).
C.Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
D.Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
E.There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
F."The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).
G."As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79).
H."This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
I."We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).

14.Trinity, the

A.The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 8, 2010 at 5:06am

Great job David,

Okay, their theology is a mess. So, now I want to know why is God, then, using a Mormon to call His people back to Himself?

Do we agree with Glenn Beck that this nation needs to return to God? The Evangelical that I mentioned that stood with Glenn Beck was Jim Garlow, an Evangelical leader highly involved in the Prop 8 (David can tell us about that one) amendment to the state constitution in California recently attempting to declare that marriage was between a man and a woman and not between a couple of guys or gals. He was working his heart out trying to get that thing going out there. He called out to the Christians for help. He got some but not much. He met with some Mormon leaders and they decided to lay their theological differences aside and work together for the common good. He had 25,000 show up to take their petitions door-to-door. 24,000 of them were Mormons. What do you think? Without their help, Prop 8 would have probably been defeated.

Do we want a nation where homosexual marriage is legal? Is that the kind of nation you want for your grandchildren? Do you want a nation where they are not allowed any Godly teaching in their classrooms? Or, do you want change? I want change and not a change towards a more socialistic America. I want to return to the time where God was honored in our country. If something doesn't change pretty quick, our motto which is "In God We Trust" will be removed from every public institution in our nation. The phrase "under God" in the flag salute has already been challenged several times. It is about to go.

What do you think? The Christians have their theology right, but are they doing much good in our country? If not, then why aren't they? Where are we missing it? Maybe we should ask Samson before he goes out to fight the Philistines for us if he has his theology correct.

Jim Garlow uses this phrase: "They are not our theological brothers and sisters, but they are our friends and neighbors." What do you think? Should we work together to change our culture?

Roy

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on September 8, 2010 at 5:47am

Thanks for posting the new video David--enjoyed it immensely. And Roy, your latest post was very good.
I have a different take when I put all the information together and analyse it from my own imperfect mind, but I can see clearly how Glen Beck can be a Mormon and born-again Christian at the same time. Not to say that all Mormons are born again Christians but i still believe Glen is. At any rate I will pray for him in the thing that I believe he was called to do.
Time will give credence...or not..to whether he is a Christian. However, we need someone to speak out and turn us back to God and Glen Beck may be the man appointed for just such a purpose. His heart is in the right place and I will support him.

blessings,
Rita

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 8, 2010 at 6:01am

Rita,

I am leaning towards joining you. I must admit I have been so determined to be theologically correct at times that I probably have failed in other areas. I know Joe would be quick to tell me that in his very nice way of saying things.

Thanks for you observations,
Roy

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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on September 8, 2010 at 1:42pm

Roy, thanks again for bringing this matter to our attention. I feel honored to share with all of these excellent heart-rendered posts.
Here are a couple of passages from the Word that I feel are applicable to this issue:

Philippians 1:15-18,"Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? not withstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

Mark 9:38-40,"And John answered Him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in Your name, and he followeth not us; and we forbade him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in My name, that can lightly speak evil of Me. For he that is not against us is for us."

At this point, my position on Glenn Beck is to continue waiting and watching. It is still not clear where he`s coming from..... or where he`s going. I will give him the benefit of a doubt. Do we know for sure how deeply Bible based, or Mormon precepts based he is?

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on September 8, 2010 at 2:26pm

Greetings all,

The first question that needs to be answered is "Which Jesus does he believe in?" Does he believe in the true Jesus presented in Scripture and affirmed by the Holy Spirit to us, or the Jesus taught by the LDS/Mormons? One key to dealing with any orgaization is to determine what they believe about Jesus. This means what do they believe to be true about Him and His blood, not do they simply use the name Jesus. Some of this has already been addressed, but I will post two web pages that will also shed light on this topic.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html
http://www.allaboutreligion.org/mormonism-vs-christianity.htm

The second one has more pages that you can access by clicking on the "Learn More" tab near the bottom of the page.

The second question that needs to be answered is whether a person can find the real Jesus and stay in an organization that teaches a different Jesus.

The third question is do I want to give my support, politically and spiritually, to a man that follows an organization that follows a different Jesus? How can I trust his spiritual accuracy when he is being influenced by books that are viewed by the organization he follows as of higher importance than the Bible?

In America, as well as other places, we want revival. Revival requires presenting the true Jesus. We will be worse off if we follow a different Jesus, or a man that follows a different Jesus.

Only God truly knows his heart, but should Christians follow a man that chooses to follow a teaching that presents a different Jesus.

One last thing. People are confused today about the LDS and this confusion appears to be intentional. About 30+/- years ago the LDS changed most of their jargon to resemble the Christian church and her terms. Most of the terms have different meanings, but on the surface they sound the same or at least similar. For example, they both profess to believe n Jesus. When you understand what each believes about Jesus and what it means to "believe in Jesus" they are not even close. Food for thought.

Lord BLess,
LT
TheNET Coordinator

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Permalink Reply by The Shearer. on September 8, 2010 at 2:51pm

I am enjoying reading this discussion and wish i could put some imput in other than just encouraging everyone here on the good work that is done ,(my computer is playing up so i cant even view the videos at the moment )May God bless you all ,and may God give us the power to discern the true christians from the ones who would sway us otherwise ,may the Spirit be with you all....Andrew...I WILL JUST PUT THIS LINK HERE ,in case it is of any use ,I like to read the commentaries at the bottom of the page. http://bible.cc/2_peter/2-1.htm

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 8, 2010 at 7:30pm

You can go to just about any Evangelical church this Sunday and find a very sound doctrinal sermon being preached. If there is one thing we have down in our Evangelical churches, it is our doctrine. Most pastors have been required to take schooling before ordination to make sure their theology is accurate. They can walk down the line with you on subjects like the Trinity, salvation, sin, prayer, faith, justification, rebirth, adoption, marriage, etc., etc. But, in spite of all this good doctrine in our churches, the church in America is on the decline. According to this report church attendance significantly declined during the 90’s and average less than 20% on a given Sunday.
http://themoralcollapseofamerica.blogspot.com/2008/10/church-attend...

According to Rasmussen poll today 49% of Americans claim to be pro-choice while only 43% claim to be pro-life.
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100817/poll-voters-rank-abor...

In 1963 we decided in America (with the approval of most Americans) to throw God and His Word out of our schools. The reason I say with the approval of most Americans is because we didn’t do anything about it. During that time 2/3 Americans believed that the Bible was the Word of God with absolute truth. By 1999 that proportion had been turned completely around. Today, most Americans believe the Bible is a good book with a lot of good advice. It only takes one generation to turn a nation around.
(George Gallup and D. Lindsay. “Surveying the American Religious Landscape: Trends in U.S. Beliefs,” Morehouse Publishing, 1999).

So, what is the good news for today? Well, there isn’t much. We can say our doctrine is in good shape for the most part. This is good. But, now we are losing our young people at alarming rates. Some are putting the rate at an alarming rate of 70% and even higher. Why are they leaving? They are saying that the Bible is not relative. It is interesting to see when we are losing their support. One might think it is during the college years. It is not. We are losing them before that. I created a chart that reveals we are losing most of them in the elementary and high school years. This is when they begin to doubt the Word. This is happening when we are not aware. Sometimes they are not even aware.
( I couldn't get my chart to load but it shows that close to 85% of the children begin to doubt the Word in elementary and high school with only 10.6% beginning to doubt in college. I can e-mail that along with some other charts if you wish.)

The information was gathered from a book called Already Gone by Britt Beemer and Ken Ham.

It is very good to have good doctrine but somehow it is not being that relevant in a society where it has been degraded to a secondary position. Having our theology correct doesn’t mean that we really believe what is knowledge to us. Why are our children leaving?

This is entirely from me and no research. I think it is because we are not living our beliefs. What good is it to talk morals and then allow our children to watch immoral television shows and movies? We get all fired up talking about our Creator God and then send our children to an institution that teaches that we really aren’t a special creation of God. I call this the Bible Disconnect. Our theology must be relavant. We are wondering what is happening. Why are we losing ground instead of gaining ground? The answer is The Bible Disconnect. I’m not sure where I got that.

Again I say, if our theology is not making a difference in our society, there is something wrong with our theology. We are saying with our actions that we believe the Word of God is true but then live as it is not.

We are in trouble. We are losing the battle. Perhaps God is raising up a Mormon to teach us how to live according to our beliefs. The Mormons believe we are saved through our works. We Evangelicals believe we are saved by grace alone. Our doctrine is correct. Theirs is wrong. However, they are living out their beliefs. Our doctrine of grace in no way should be teaching us that once we are saved, we don’t have a huge job to do. Once we have been saved, our work has only just begun.
James tells us that our faith is dead without works. He tells us that faith without works cannot save us. Are we sure we have our theology correct. The doctrine of grace teaches us that God saves us by His grace to do good works which He planned in advance for us to do. I wonder if we are getting that work done. What is going on? If God has a plan and we are all doing what He planned, we would be winning the battle. There is no way God’s plan would not be victorious. Bible history teaches us that when morality is losing, it is because the people are not doing what they are supposed to be doing. Is God raising up a Mormon to get a message through to us who should know what to do?

Remember, good theology will change our world. I think we are missing something with our theology.

Roy

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Permalink Reply by The Shearer. on September 9, 2010 at 3:15am

Why do people think we can take a holiday when we are saved by grace ,if we are really saved ,then we know that there is a lot of work to be done!!! Look at what Jesus did cause He loved us so much,if we are to be more like Him should not we be doing as He did ,ministering to the lost any way possible ,May be this Glenn bloke does have his heart in the right place ,and if so ,he may have to be very careful how he goes about talking about his beliefs .If he is trying to get the truth to his fellow brothers ,and tries to change their doctrines too quickly ,they might throw him out and go on as they allways have ,but if his heart is in the right place and they start taking a bit of notice of him ,as well as some of us ,as well ,who knows what the outcome will be .We are in times of a lot of big changes so we need to be sure we are about our Fathers business more than ever.Like I said a bit earlier I havnt had a chance to see any of the videos of Glenn Beck yet ,so I''m praying big time that I am making some kind of sense in this ...Andrew.

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