All About GOD

All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others

How well do you know Catholic Christianity?

As a Catholic Christian I am often hurt by the contempt with which the Church is written about here at All About God. net.  And yet I know that many Christians would not be able to answer even basic questions about the Biblical-based teaching and practice of the Holy Catholic Church.  So, here is a quiz that I found at Catholic Bible 101.  Can you pass this quiz without looking up the answers before hand?  And if not, then could we all agree to get to know Catholic Christianity before we condemn Catholic Christians?

 

Take the quiz and find out. 

  1. Pope John Paul II instituted a new set of mysteries to the Rosary called the ______Mysteries.  It is suggested by the Church to say these mysteries on _______ .
  2. The 3rd Glorious Mystery of the Rosary is the ________.
  3. Saul saw Jesus as a bright light on his way to _________.
  4. The first Christian in the New Testament, as well as the first evangelist, was _______.
  5. Paul describes Jesus as the new ______.
  6. The Ark of the Covenant contained three items, according to Paul, including ____, ____, & _____ .
  7. There are at least 3 righteous people mentioned in the Book of Luke, ____, _____, and _____.
  8. According to the Bible, _______ is the prince of the air.
  9. The first murderer in human history was _________.
  10. Adam and Eve's third son was named _______.
  11. Jesus is a priest forever, in the order of _______.
  12. True or False--The Catholic Church added the 7 books of the "apocrypha" to the Bible after the Protestant Reformation. 
  13. True or False--The Bible condemns all tradition.
  14. The Liturgy of the Hours draws mainly from the Biblical book of ______.
  15. __________ was completely forgiven for his sin by God, but still had to endure the death of his child as punishment.
  16. ________ told Mary that a sword would pierce her heart.
  17. Psalm _____ foretells the crucifixion of Jesus and that lots would be cast for his clothes.
  18. Bethlehem means _______of _______.
  19. The prophet _______ foretold that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem.
  20. The prophet _______ foretold that Jesus would be  born of a virgin.
  21. The prophet _______ foretold that Jesus would be sold for 30 pieces of silver.
  22. _________chopped off the head of General Holofernes, saving Israel. She is a biblical type of Mary, who crushes the head of the serpent, saving the Church.
  23. ________ was caught up to heaven in a whirlwind.  Just prior to that, ________ asked for and received a double portion of his spirit.
  24. _____ went to the Witch of Endor to get her to conjure up Samuel from the dead.
  25. True or False - Witchcraft, sorcery, and divination are not condemned by the Bible.
  26. ____ & _____ asked Jesus if he should rain fire down on a Samaritan village.
  27. Jesus appeared to his unknowing disciples after the Resurrection on the road to _______ .
  28.  In _____ chapter 6, Jesus told his disciples that if they eat ____and drink ____ they  would abide in him, and he in them.
  29. The angel Gabriel called Mary _____ of _____, rather than by her name.
  30. __________ was an Old Testament Prophet and King, who was a shepherd, was born in Bethlehem, started his Kingship at 30 years of age, and foretold that evil men would cast lots for the Messiah's clothes.
  31. Following the death of King __________in 930 BC,the nation of Israel split into the Northern Kingdom, called ________, and the southern Kingdom, called __________. 
  32. Of the 12 tribes of Israel, ___ were in the northern kingdom, and ____ were in the southern kingdom.
  33. The capital of the northern kingdom was ____________, while the capital of the southern kingdom was __________.
  34. In 722 BC, the northern kingdom was taken captive by __________.
  35. In 587 BC, the southern kingdom was taken captive by __________.
  36. The ________ kingdom eventually returned home after 70 years of exile.
  37. The ________kingdom assimilated with pagan countries and was never heard from again.
  38. Jesus said that a kingdom __________ cannot __________.
  39. According to 2 Maccabees, ________buried the Ark of the Covenant containing the 10 Commandments in a cave on or near Mount ________.
  40. Also according to 2 Maccabees, the long dead prophet _________ appeared to the former high priest Onias and to Judas Maccabees and presented a golden sword to Judas. Onias said the prophet_______much for the people and the holy city.
  41. Straight out of the Bible, the Seven Sorrows of Mary are ________, ________, ________, ________, ________, ________, & ________.
  42. _______ was taken up into heaven in a whirlwind (at the spot on the Jordan River where ________ started his ministry years later),  after giving a double portion of his spirit to his protege, ________.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on June 7, 2010 at 4:54pm
L.T.

Thank you so much. It takes me hours sometimes to put together just one response because I want to really know that I am publishing the truth of the Catholic Faith and not just what I think, or believe, or have heard, or have read is the truth of the Catholic Faith.

I am hoping to move AAG to a space where All Christians can feel welcome!

Thank you, LT, for your support and encouraging words.

Sharon.
Permalink Reply by Carla on June 7, 2010 at 12:49pm
Hi Sharon,

I'm just going to address a couple things that stood out for me here. I do commend you for the time you have put into your posts.

1) First of all I would like to address praying so that Mary and the other saints may pray for you.. This is unbiblical. Scripture tells us this:

Hebrews 4:16 (NIV)
16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
and this...
1 Timothy 2:5 (NIV)
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 7:25 (NIV)
25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

In Romans 8:26,27 the Holy Spirit also intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.

There are scriptures where people are praying for oneanother...but those scriptures are not referring to people in heaven praying but rather only here on earth.

Whenever the bible mentions speaking with the dead it is in reference to sorcery Leviticus 20:27, Dueteronomy 18:10-13,

In 1 Samuel 28:7-19 Samuel was spoken to after he died....and he was not happy about it.

In addition to that, God does not answer our prayers according to who is asking..but rather it is according to whether or not it is His will...1 John 5:14-15.

Please show me in scripture where it is taught that we should pray to Mary or to other saints who have died.

2) Regarding asking a priest for forgiveness.. Scripture teaches that all believers are 'priests'.
1 Peter 2:5-9

Hebrews 4:14-15 tells us that Jesus is the 'Great High Priest' and Hebrews 4:16 tells us we can appraoch the Throne of Grace with confidence.

The New Testament teaches that there are to be elders (1 Timothy 3), deacons (1 Timothy 3), bishops (Titus 1:6-9), and pastors (Ephesians 4:11) – but not priests.

1 John 1:9 says we are to confess our sins to God.
James 5:16--confess our sins to oneanother...nothing about a priest. In this verse there is no mention that forgiveness will be granted upon confessing our sins to oneanother.

You also said this:
The center of the Catholic faith is the Eucharist and the Eucharist is HIM.
Where is that taught in scripture? In had forgotten that the catholic taught this..that the eucharist is Jesus in physical form. Again....where is that taught in scripture?

Sharon.. truly, I am not very keen at all in continuing in this discussion. I do not want to say anything that would cause division, or set an example that is obviously upsetting to others here.

Christianity is not about Catholics...or non-Catholics.. IT IS ABOUT JESUS!

Blessings, Carla
Permalink Reply by Helen on September 5, 2010 at 3:19am
Hi Carla,

I was reading all that you and Sharon have been exchanging. I thought I may ask you to please consider these points:

You said:
1) First of all I would like to address praying so that Mary and the other saints may pray for you.. This is unbiblical.

would these scriptures be acceptable?

With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel[...] (Eph 6:18-19).

or this one

He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Romans 8:27)

You see, we catholics believe that praying to dead people is wrong. But Saints are those who have gained eternal life, and live in the Glory of God. They are part of the Family of God, just like us.

The book of Rev: 5, 8 tells us how the saints in heaven, representing both the new and old covenant, receive our prayers and take them to God ( as Catholics ask them to).

We also believe that indeed souls in heaven hear us and assist us. Didn't Jesus pray with Moses and Elijah, who were dead in the flesh (at least Moses was, since Elijah was taken up and vanished on a chariott) the world but alive in glory? Mt 17, 1-3 and Lk 9, 31-32


For Catholics, this is evidence that souls that departed in the Grace of God can interceed for us. Just think about it, it might give you a whole new perspective.

And lastly, because I dont want you to think that I am trying to argue with you, but I am genuinely concerned for your misperception of the Catholic teachings:

The center of the Catholic faith is the Eucharist and the Eucharist is HIM.
Where is that taught in scripture?

Well Carla, this is in John troughout chapter 6, as well as these:

John 6:4,11-14 - on the eve of the Passover, Jesus performs the miracle of multiplying the loaves. This was prophesied in the Old Testament (e.g., 2 Kings4:43), and foreshadows the infinite heavenly bread which is Him.

Matt. 14:19, 15:36; Mark 6:41, 8:6; Luke 9:16 - these passages are additional accounts of the multiplication miracles. This points to the Eucharist.

Matt. 16:12 - in this verse, Jesus explains His metaphorical use of the term "bread." In John 6, He eliminates any metaphorical possibilities.

John 6:4 - Jesus is in Capernaum on the eve of Passover, and the lambs are gathered to be slaughtered and eaten. Look what He says.

John 6:35,41,48,51 - Jesus says four times "I AM the bread from heaven." It is He, Himself, the eternal bread from heaven.


I hope you dont mind me interfering in your discussion. I just felt that I had some valid points worth mentioning.

I have also posted about other subjects in the forum, and I am almost sure that there is something that addresses some usual misconception regarding our devotion to Mary, not worship, that would be against the Catholic faith, of course. Just in case you want to read it...

God bless,
Helen
Permalink Reply by Carla on September 5, 2010 at 6:33am
Dear Helen,

I have respectfully bowed out of this conversation for my own personal reasons a while ago.. However, I will go over the scriptures you mentioned of the context etc..and get back to you.

Blessings and Love in Christ, Carla
Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 5, 2010 at 7:31am
Helen,

You have taken a couple of verses and completely destroyed them in your attempt to justify the Catholic position of praying to the saints. You said:

You said:
1) First of all I would like to address praying so that Mary and the other saints may pray for you.. This is unbiblical.

would these scriptures be acceptable?

With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel[...] (Eph 6:18-19).

or this one

He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Romans 8:27)

Notice this verse that you attempted to use to justify praying to the saints:
Eph 6:18
18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. NIV

Who are the saints of God? I don't have time to give a long study of what a saint is but basically it is that person that God has sanctified according to His purpose. It is that person that He has set apart according to His will. The setting apart is a work of holiness. Only those who have been made holy by His blood will be acceptable to God. This sanctifying work of the Spirit is for all of us. Thus, I am one of the multitude of saints. Therefore, if you wanted to pray to a saint, you might as well pray to me. Since that won't do you an absolute bit of good, I recommend directing all your prayers to the Father in the Name of Jesus Christ. The concept of praying to the saints is just another deceptive practice of the RCC designed to bring you and all the rest of their constituents into bondage to their traditions.

I do not condemn the Catholic church. Yet, I do believe they have many doctrines of man that are designed to keep people Catholic rather than encouraging them to be free in Jesus Christ. I know the Catholic church could never accept me into their church. Yet, I am a member of His church.

I was very surprised to see you use the two verses in the above post to justify an obvious error in the church. Praying to saints is a waste of time. St. Thomas could do no more for you than St. Roy. I could never measure up to the stature of St. Peter but you might as well pray to St. Roy or St. David as St. Peter. However, St. Roy can pray for you and he will be doing that.

St. Roy

By the way, the church cannot make a saint out of anyone.
Permalink Reply by Helen on September 5, 2010 at 5:17pm
Dear Roy,

I dont think I destroyed anything, sir. I am intitled to my interpretation as much as you are to have yours.

My Catholic interpretation might be wrong but it might be right also. Who can tell? You or your pastor?


For instance, I find your interpretation of what being a saint means to be wrong and not scriptural. Saints, in the catholic view is a person who have lived strictly according to God's will and have therefore not perished, but attained eternal life after leaving the world.

But if I would give it to you and say that I interpreted them wrongly. How about the other passages?


Like I said to Carla. I do not expect you or anyone to agree with me. I JUST wanted to point out that calling this catholic belief unblblical is inaccurate. It is in the bible, this we how WE understand it.

There are plenty of protestant interpretations that I dont agree with. I could claim the same, and call them unbiblical....But that would not be right.

In fact those were just a couple of references I wanted to show Carla, but there is more:

Matt. 5:44-45 - Jesus tells us to pray for (to mediate on behalf of) those who persecute us. God instructs us to mediate.

Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 – deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John (these may be the two “witnesses” John refers to in Rev. 11:3). Nothing in Scripture ever suggests that God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. To the contrary, God encourages communication within the communion of saints. Moses and Elijah’s appearance on earth also teach us that the saints in heaven have capabilities that far surpass our limitations on earth.

Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints, then so can we, who are called to imitate Jesus in word and in deed. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members.

Matt. 27:47,49; Mark 15:35-36 – the people believe that Jesus calls on Elijah for his intercession, and waits to see if Elijah would come to save Jesus on the cross.

Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus' passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.

Mark 11:24 - Jesus says that whatever we ask in prayer, we will receive it. It is Jesus, and also we through Jesus, who mediate.

John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary's intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God.

John 2:5 - Mary intercedes on behalf of those at the wedding feast and tells them to do whatever Jesus tells them. Because Mary is our perfect model of faith, we too intercede on behalf of our brothers and sisters.

John 2:11 - in fact, it was Mary's intercession that started Jesus' ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary's intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children.

Acts 12:7 – an angel strikes Peter on the side and wakes him up, freeing him from prison. The angel responds to Peter’s prayers.

Rom. 15:30 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for him. If we are united together in the one body of Christ, we can help each other.

2 Cor. 1:11 - Paul even suggests that the more prayers and the more people who pray, the merrier! Prayer is even more effective when united with other's prayers.

2 Cor. 9:14 - Paul says that the earthly saints pray for the Corinthians. They are subordinate mediators in Christ.

2 Cor. 13:7,9 - Paul says the elders pray that the Corinthians may do right and improve. They participate in Christ's mediation.

Gal. 6:2,10 - Paul charges us to bear one another's burdens, and to do good to all, especially those in the household of faith.

Eph. 6:18 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for each other.

Eph. 6:19 - Paul commands that the Ephesians pray for him. If there is only one mediator, why would Paul ask for their prayers?

Phil. 1:19 - Paul acknowledges power of Philippians' earthly intercession. He will be delivered by their prayers and the Holy Spirit.

Col. 1:3 - Paul says that he and the elders pray for the Colossians. They are subordinate mediators in the body of Christ.

Veneration / Honor of the Saints
Matt. 18:10 - the angels in heaven always behold the face of God. We venerate them for their great dignity and union with God.

Matt. 15:4; Luke 18:20; Eph. 6:2-3 Exodus 20:12; Lev. 19:3; Deut. 5:16 - we are instructed to honor our father and mother.

Luke 1:28 - the angel Gabriel venerates Mary by declaring to her "Hail, full of grace." The heavenly angel honors the human Mary, for her perfection of grace exceeds that of the angels.

Romans 13:7 - we are to give honor where honor is due. When we honor God's children, we honor God Himself, for He is the source of all honor.

1 Cor. 4:16 - the most important form of veneration of the saints is "imitating" the saints, as Paul commands us to do.

1 Cor. 11:1 - again, Paul says, "Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ." The ultimate objective of veneration is imitation.

Phil. 2:25-29 - Paul teaches us to honor Epaprhoditus who almost died for the faith. How much more honor is owed to the saints that did die for the faith!

Phil. 3:17 - Paul says to imitate him and others, which is the goal of veneration. Veneration is not worship.

1 Thess. 1:6 – Paul says to the Thessalonians, “You became imitators of us and of the Lord.” This is the goal of veneration.

2 Thess. 3:7 - Paul says that the Thessalonians should imitate him and the other bishops.

Hebrews 3:3 - Jesus is worthy of "more" glory and honor than Moses. This does not mean that the saints are worthy of no glory and honor. Instead, it proves that saintly people are worthy of glory and honor out of God's goodness.

Heb. 6:12 – the author teaches us to be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Heb. 13:7 - we must imitate the faith of our faithful leaders. We ask for their intercession and venerate them for their holiness.

James 5:10-11 – James teaches us to take heart in the examples of the prophets and Job, who endured suffering.

1 Peter 2:17 - Peter teaches us to honor all men, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the emperor. Don't those living with Christ in heaven deserve honor? Catholics believe they do, and honor them with special feast days, just as we honor those living by celebrating their birthdays.

Gen. 19:1 - Lot venerates the two angels in Sodom, bowing himself with his face to the ground.

Gen. 42:6 - Joseph's brothers bow before Joseph with the face to the ground. This is veneration, not worship.

Exodus 28:2 - it is especially important to honor religious leaders. Sacred garments for Aaron give him dignity and


BUT please, dont feel tempted to refute and reply to all this. The point of this forum is to KNOW the Catholic FAITH, not Condemn Catholic Christianity and Beliefs.

Many thanks and God bless you!!
H.
Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 5, 2010 at 6:18pm
Helen,

First of all, any interpretation you see that is incorrect from Scripture not only do you have the right to point it out, I believe you have the responsibility to do so. When there is incorrect interpretation in the Bible-believing churches, it must be corrected.

Now, the reason you find my interpretation of what a saint is is simply because you have not studied Scripture to find out what the Bible teaches on the subject but have just accepted your church's teaching without your own personal study. Discovering what a saint is in Scripture is not at all a difficult task. If fact, if you will use your concordance as you have in other cases and see how the word is used in Scripture, you would see the difference very easily. The word translated saints in Scripture comes to us from the Greek word Hagios. It means holy. It is used in reference to all those who are God's called in the church. These are those who have been made holy by His Spirit. It is not a reference to a select few of the believers. It is used of all of them. A simple short study of the word in your concordance will reveal that the word is used over 200 times in the New Testament.

Praying to a saint is just ridiculous. You are an intelligent person. It is a doctrine created for the purpose of deception.

Helen, here is another instance where you pick a interpretation out of the sky. The intended meaning has nothing to do with the doctrine you are trying to defend. You said,
Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints, then so can we, who are called to imitate Jesus in word and in deed. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members.

Helen, this is ridiculous. You are taking a couple of Scriptures that have absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about and using them to justify your deceptive position. Helen, at first I was thinking that you were deceived. However, these are attempts to deceive. These are examples of using Scripture to justify a very false position. Angels are not saints and can never be any. Only humans can become saints through the work of the Holy Spirit and not through anything they have done. You are teaching a salvation by works which is a completely false teaching. Do you not know that this is what you are doing here?

Then, you list many verses of Scripture - none of which justify this deceptive teaching of yours. Not one of those verses teach us to pray to the saints or to communicate with the dead. You are dangerously close to a cultic practice if you are teaching people to communicate with the dead. I very seriously doubt that AAG will approve of that teaching on this website. I guess I am just a little surprised that the teaching to pray to the saints is permitted. However, you have listed some wonderful verses that teach people to pray for each other. Recently Sharon was sick and asked us to pray for her. I did as that is what I am called to do.

Also, the worship of angels is cultic. You have really gone out on an edge in this post. I hope you are not suggesting that as well. I am very saddened by this post.

It is not my position to condemn anyone. However, I am seeing some things in this post that need to be badly corrected.

These are practices of a cult:
1) communication with the dead
2) praying to the dead
3) worship of the angels or the worship of man by angels

These are not biblical practices. I hope you are not participating in any of these exercises.

Scripture teaches us to admire those who have gone before us not to worship or venerate them. I am an ordained minister but have asked people not to call me reverend since I feel there is only One to be revered. You will never see me referring to myself as Reverend Wilson.

However, you will see me from time to time refer to myself as Saint Roy. But, this is not a title that I have done anything to earn. Sainthood was conferred upon me by the power of His Spirit. And no, when I pass on, it will do no good to pray to me because I won't be listening. I will be too busy with Him in the next part of life.

Not bragging in the least in myself but I am
Saint Roy

A saint is simply that person that has been washed in His blood and set apart for His purpose. That, my sister, is I.
Permalink Reply by Helen on September 6, 2010 at 10:16am
Dearest Saint Roy, (that's just to break up the tension, not to be ironic!)

Please, there is no need to be angry at me because I don't agree with you.

When I read your message I almost felt like giving up completely and no even coming here anymore. You've accused me harshly almost as though you were writing in anger. Why would I want to deceive any one?

Roy, as a Catholic, what I call a Saint is exactly what you call it: a holy person. Namely, a soul that achieved a level of holiness that is very pleasing to God.

I, as much as I try to live God's word, do not consider myself a Saint. But I am aware that we are all called to be saints and to imitate Christ. That is my understanding, and that is what I strive to do, but not always succeed.

Also, my understanding is that if one succeeds in doing so, then this soul will enter heaven and appear before the Lord in 'wedding garments', and not be thrown out of there, as we see in the parable of the great banquet.

Now, Roy, since you told me that I am completly wrong, I humbly ask you to please tell me where I can find the scripture from where you conclued this:

The word translated saints in Scripture comes to us from the Greek word Hagios. It means holy. It is used in reference to all those who are God's called in the church. (Not the linguistic bit, that I know already, but the conclusion)

Many thanks and God Bless you,
Helen

PS. Regarding this:

These are practices of a cult:
1) communication with the dead
2) praying to the dead
3) worship of the angels or the worship of man by angels

I can assure you that I do none of those things. So, don't worry!

PS2. I sent you various references to show you OUR Scriptural support. Not for you to aggree with them. You seemed to have taken offense on a particular one and called it ridiculous. May I ask if you also disagree with everything else that I've written, I mean the other passages? Thanks.
Permalink Reply by Carla on September 5, 2010 at 8:34am
Helen,

I have reconsidered my first promise to respond here. Please don't take it personally that I will not engage in this discussion.

The purpose of us here on AAG is to support new believers in their walk with Christ. This is not to be a place for denominational battles. This place is for Jesus, and His purposes!

Please check out this link to review over why AAG was created in the first place:

http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/thenets-purpose-reminding-us

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
Blessings,
Carla,
Volunteer NET Administrator/Moderator
Permalink Reply by Helen on September 5, 2010 at 1:39pm
Dear Carla,

Thanks for your reply.

Please understant I was not trying to engage in a 'denominational batle'. I was just responding to your comments where you stated that some Catholic beliefs are unbiblical.

I simply thought that you would like to see what scriptural support we have for what we believe. Nothing else.

Please be assured that I don't want conflict with anyone. Nor do I want any one to agree with me. I just felt that it was alright to reply to your comment, as so many others have done in this very forum, in order for them to understand where we are coming from. Thats all.

Many thanks again,

Helen
Permalink Reply by Carla on June 7, 2010 at 12:52pm
oh yes.. one more thing I forgot to address:

this article addresses the issue of praying for someone after they have died. It is from www.gotquestions.org

Question: "Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?"

Answer: While the idea of a second chance for salvation is appealing, the Bible is clear that death is the end of all chances. Hebrews 9:27 tells us that we die, and then face judgment. So, as long as a person is alive, he has a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chance to accept Christ and be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31). Once a person dies, there are no more chances. The idea of purgatory, a place where people go after death to pay for their sins, has no biblical basis, but is rather a tradition of the Roman Catholic Church.

To understand what happens to nonbelievers after they die, we go to Revelation 20:11-15 which describes the Great White Throne judgment. Here takes place the opening of the books and “the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” The books contain all the thoughts and deeds of those being judged, and we know from Romans 3:20 that “by the works of the Law is no flesh justified.” Therefore, all who are judged by their works and thoughts are condemned to hell. Believers in Christ, on the other hand, are not judged by the books of works, but their names are found written in another book—the “Lamb’s Book of Life” (Revelation 21:27). These are the ones who have believed on the Lord Jesus, and they alone will be allowed to enter heaven.

The key to understanding this is the Lamb’s Book of Life. Anyone whose name is written in this book was “saved before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4) by God’s sovereign saving grace to be part of His Son’s bride, the church of Jesus Christ. These people need no “second chance” at salvation because their salvation has been secured by Christ. He chose us, He saved us, and He will keep us saved. Nothing can separate us from Christ (Romans 8:39). Those for whom He died will be saved because Jesus will see to it. He declared “all that the Father has given me will come to me” (John 6:37), and “I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand” (John 10:28). For believers, there is no need for a second chance because the first chance is sufficient.

What about those who do not believe? Wouldn’t they repent and believe if they were given a second chance? The answer is no, they would not because their hearts are not changed simply because they die. Their hearts and minds “are at enmity” against God and won’t accept Him even when they see Him face to face. This is evidenced clearly in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. If ever someone should have repented when given a second chance to see clearly the truth, it was the rich man. But although he was in torment in hell, he only asked that Abraham send Lazarus back to earth to warn his brothers so they didn’t have to suffer the same fate. There was no repentance in his heart, only regret for where he found himself. Abraham’s answer says it all: “And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:31). Here we see that the witness of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not. No second, third or fourth chances would be enough to turn the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

Philippians 2:10-11 declares “that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” One day, everyone will bow before Jesus and recognize that He is the Lord and Savior. At that point, though, it is too late for salvation. After death, all that remains for the unbeliever is judgment (Revelation 20:14-15). That is why we must trust in Him in this life.
Permalink Reply by Helen on September 6, 2010 at 6:11am
Dear Carla,

My point with the comment I sent to you was simply show where we take our biblical support for what we believe. My point is never to convince anyone.

Whenever someone says 'this' or 'that' is not biblical, I simply feel like I should show them the biblical support for the Catholic view, if they agree with it or not, that is a different question and as you pointed out, not the purpose for this forum. After all, the name of the forum is How well do you know Catholic Christianity, so I was just showing the Catholic view.

Therefore, I am not going to refute your interpretation of any Scripture or teachings. I will just keep mine.

Many thanks again for taking the time to reply.

God bless
Helen

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