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Depart from Me for I never knew you
When someone struggles with the sins of the flesh, does it mean that on the day of judgement, Jesus will say to them, "Depart from me, for I never knew you?
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Permalink Reply by forgiven on
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You do what you want Roy. I will believe the word.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Romans 6:15-19 (King James Version)
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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God bless you Forgiven,
Ro 7:14-25
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do — this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God — through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. NIV
This is the war that is taking place within us. Now, you are no longer a slave to sin and its consequences. But, that in no way means that you will not fall from time to time as the apostle Paul did. This is a body of death in which we reside and it will eventually die and need to be buried. However, you have become a servant of righteousness, that is if you have obeyed His command to believe in His Son. If not, you are still dead in your sins. If you have, you are alive in Christ. You still struggle against the flesh but you are no longer its servant. It no longer has dominion over you. You have been set free by the power of life by believing on Him. You will never again be sin's slave. You are free. Enjoy your freedom but don't even attempt to tell me that you no longer struggle against the flesh and sometimes fail. Our freedom is in Christ, not in our ability to overcome sin.
Roy
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Roy,
I am confused regarding some of your recent responses and am seeking to understand what you are trying to convey. Do you believe that a saved person should seek to live a sanctified life, desiring to please God out of love?
Lord Bless,
LT
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Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. (Jesus, Matthew 5:6)
Roy...my Lord and Saviour promised this to us. He did not lie. His promises are True.
'you' say that we 'can not'...the Lord say's we 'can'. Who am I to believe here?
I have never said that I do not sin...but are you saying that we should just stop trying...because it is not possible? If it is your desire to continue in sin,,,then do so. But I will not be convinced by any 'man' to set aside righteousnes....even if I fail over and over. 'This' is 'my faith'...that my Lord who live in me and I in Him, will deliver me. If I 'fail' until my last breath, I will with my last breath as Him for strength to succeed.
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. " II Timothy 4:3-4
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2 Timothy 3
Perilous Times and Perilous Men
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
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Forgiven,
Am I to respond to this? I would like to respond to the part about always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Since this does not refer to either you or me, I think it is worth discussing. Are you wanting to discuss these verses? Surely, you would not be referring to me by these verses.
Roy
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LT,
A true child of God will seek to follow His Lord. However, going around and demanding people to live above sin puts pressure on them that sometimes they cannot stand under. They begin to feel condemnation from someone who has overcome certain sins that they have not yet overcome. No one has overcome all the sin in their life. Therefore, we remain totally dependent on Jesus for our salvation. No matter where we are in our walk with God, we still have a way to go. Maybe it is time for the Christian world to get real and admit we are still struggling with our flesh. Our striving to live a sanctified life does not get us sanctified. We are sanctified through Him.
My emphasis is upon who we are and not on what we should do. There are plenty around to tell people what they should do. Sometimes all we hear is how we should live. I think sometimes the focus should be on who we are and what we have to be so thankful for. I have been sanctified and what I do or haven't yet done neither adds or takes away from that. We cannot add a thing to our sanctification. All we have we receive in Him. I am not willing to take an ounce of credit for my salvation.
For to many years I strived to become holy not realizing I had already been made holy by His blood.
How do I live a sanctified life? If you are saying am I seeking to live a life worthy of my calling then I can absolutely say that I am and have done so for over fifty years. Yet, I realize I am still as dependent on Him for my salvation as I have ever been. I am no more holy today than I was the day He found me.
How do I please God? I please God by putting my complete faith in Christ for all my needs. When a person is asking if God is going to tell them to depart from Him for He never knew them, I think we are doing a pretty poor job of conveying God's love and Christ's vicarious work on the cross.
I hope this clears up the confusion.
Roy
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So you're saying we should no longer 'strive' to be 'Holy as I am Holy'......to take Jesus' Yoke upon ourselves?
John 14
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
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Forgiven,
What is the work God requires of us. It is to put our trust and faith in Him completely. I believe you are missing a valuable point by putting the emphasis on what we are to do rather than on what He has already done. However, that desire to point that out has obviously brought about a firestorm. I am being accused of hidden sin. Shouldn't you know more about me before you say such things? I am very sorry that we disagree on how we are saved. Please forgive me for offending you. I really did think I was helping. I would like for you to see that we are saved by Him and Him alone and by nothing we did, are doing, or could ever do. That led you to believe that I must have secret sin. I have no idea how we got there but that is where we ended up. Please let me know if you really want to know why I think you are putting too much emphasis on you and not enough on Him. However, that is not an attack on your character but a disagreement on your theology. I see that you are online and welcome a response.
Roy
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Roy,
Maybe it is time for the Christian world to get real and admit we are still struggling with our flesh.
While none is free from sinning completely, we are to encourage one another to refrain from sin and to call some out from sin. To admit we struggle does not mean that we give up the good fight.
Our striving to live a sanctified life does not get us sanctified. We are sanctified through Him.
I see our sanctification as two fold. It is positional and experiential. We are sanctified in Christ spiritually and at the same time our lives are to be focused on being set apart from sin and set apart to God while at the same time being filled with the Holy Spirit to empower us to live for Christ in this life. Thus the experiential sanctification is an ongoing process in our lives as we walk with Him and grow in Him.
My emphasis is upon who we are and not on what we should do.
It cannot be an either or, but both. What we do must flow from who we are. We are called to a right way of living. Though sin occurs, that does not make it right or even excusable. James teaches us that our faith will be demonstrated by deeds. Faith precedes deeds, but deeds are certain to follow the true believer in Christ.
There are plenty around to tell people what they should do.
In fact it is God who tells us how we should live. Galatians 5 is clear regarding a life that is pleasing to God and one that is displeasing and this in the book that speaks of freedom through grace, freedom from the law. This freedom does not absolve us of being responsible for living in a manner that pleases God by what we do as well as by who we are in Christ. Hebrews 11 commends each person there for their faith that led to obedient action.
Sometimes all we hear is how we should live. I think sometimes the focus should be on who we are and what we have to be so thankful for. I have been sanctified and what I do or haven't yet done neither adds or takes away from that.
We war against the flesh. We are to overcome the flesh and this is done in the power of Christ. Romans 8 is clear on this.
We cannot add a thing to our sanctification. All we have we receive in Him. I am not willing to take an ounce of credit for my salvation.
This is not about salvation, that is granted by God. He then calls us to live and serve accordingly as seen in Romans 12:1-3 and in Ephesians 2:8-10.
For to many years I strived to become holy not realizing I had already been made holy by His blood.
Working to be holy will never get it, but surrendering to Jesus and living in accordance to His plan for us is in alignment with the holiness that he calls us to.
How do I live a sanctified life? If you are saying am I seeking to live a life worthy of my calling then I can absolutely say that I am and have done so for over fifty years. Yet, I realize I am still as dependent on Him for my salvation as I have ever been. I am no more holy today than I was the day He found me.
We will always be dependent upon Christ, even throughout eternity. God does call us to live in accordance to His will and plan for our lives. He desires us to be in alignment with Him. He is the source of power to accomplish this, but we must choose to surrender to Him in order for this to come to pass in our lives.
How do I please God? I please God by putting my complete faith in Christ for all my needs. When a person is asking if God is going to tell them to depart from Him for He never knew them, I think we are doing a pretty poor job of conveying God's love and Christ's vicarious work on the cross.
We please God in many different ways, but all require faith (Heb. 11:6). Our obedience to His will pleases Him. The obedience is not to retain my salvation, but to please my Father in heaven. Regarding telling them to depart because He never knew them, that is what Jesus said. Identifying the group He is speaking to is key, but none-the-less., Jesus said that to a group of people. I believe the text speaks to the religious unsaved, but that is another story.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Amen LT.
Roy...I am tempted to ask, what is this sin that you are not willing to give up?
I certainly have some 'vices' that I struggle with as well. But I would rather encourage others....'and myself' to win......rather than to encourage people that it is ok to wallow in their sin because they are 'not able' to escape. 'I personally'..would rather 'die trying' until the day the Lord calls me before Him.
I want to thank you Roy, for bringing this out...for making it so clear to me the dire strongholds of procrastination and denial. It is truely a curmudgeon who say's, "I refuse to change".......But as for me.....I say, "I WILL change...in every way of which I am able to overcome my sin and approach the throne of the Living God and my Lord and Saviour in Holiness." Does that make me 'holier than thou'? No...it is obeying my Lord's commandment to ''bring hope to the hopeless" .........and yes, I have a very long way to go. But my Saviour has 'Assured me'....It IS possible. YES I CAN!
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To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, Revelation 2:17
Does anyone know where it says a blessing to him who 'does not' overcome?
......Is there a scripture that says we will be blessed for 'doing nothing' with our valuable gift of salvation for fear of failure?
Luke 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. -
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