All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Losing Salvation?
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If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
LOSING YOUR SALVATION -http://robertwells.tripod.com/losingsalvation.html
YOU CAN'T LOSE YOUR SALVATION OR HAVE IT TAKEN AWAY BUT.......
When you were saved you turned to God. Turning to God means the you have committed your life to trusting and obeying God. In John 1:6-7 it says, "If we claim to have fellowship with Him, yet we walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son, purifies us from all sin."
According to this text, "If we walk in the darkness, then we do not live by the truth." If our heart is not repentant when we sin, if our attitude is one of disobedience to the Laws and Commandments of God, if we turn away from God, if we live a life of sin, if we decide the effort to lead a Godly life is not worth it, if the actions of our lives indicate that we no longer desire to be one of God's children, then we don't lose our salvation, and salvation isn't taken from us, but we through our own free will, take our salvation and give it back to God. We tell God we don't want it. We give it up!!!
Ezekiel 3:20 "If the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die".
If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
So ask yourself this question. What is the only way to gain eternal salvation? There are a great many verses that tell us the answer. Below are just two of them:
Ephesians 2:8-9 "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God's gift."
1Peter 1:5 "Those who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
God makes salvation completely available through Jesus Christ - and not only to specific individuals, but to all who will receive and believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus made this very clear when he said, "Whoever believes in me would not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) The word "whoever" includes everybody. No person is excluded from the opportunity to believe and receive everlasting life.
Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are committing those sins mentioned in the above paragraph, then you simply don't believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions, certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
In other words you can not walk in the darkness unrepentant and still hold onto your salvation. Keep in mind that repentance is much more than stopping the very act of committing those sins that you are asking forgiveness for. Repentance is actually the act of turning away from doing those sins, of not committing them anymore, of changing your life in such a way as you no longer want or desire to commit those sins. You are the one who decides whether to walk in the light or the darkness. God gave you the free will to make your own choices. If you decide to walk in the darkness then your salvation will not be taken away from you, nor will you lose your salvation. No, what you will do is give up your salvation. You will be telling God that your salvation "is not worth the effort it takes to walk in the light". That you do not wish to have his gift of eternal salvation. That you want to make it through this life on your own without any help from God. That you will follow the ways of the world rather than the ways of our Lord. So your own free will determines whether you are going to keep your salvation or give it up. God allows your eternal future to be in your own hands.
Since your own free will is what determines your eternal destiny, then it is very important to note that God will not force anyone to come to him. He is not going to get down on his knees and beg you to believe him, trust him, or accept him. Nor will he force you to love him or demand your obedience. The choice is up to each one of us whether to surrender our lives and our hearts to God or to refuse his love and his blessings. If you don't want any part of Jesus Christ then he is willing to accept that decision since it was made by you through your own free will.
Our Lord did tell us that once we are saved, once we are looking to him for everything, once we have surrendered completely to him, then no one could snatch us away from him.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
So you can't be snatched way, but you sure can walk away.
There are a great many examples of this in the Bible but my favorite is in the book of Mark. It has to do with the story about the time Jesus arrived by boat to a town where he met a demon possessed man who was living in a graveyard. (You can read the entire story in Mark 5:1-21, and it is a great example of people exercising their free will and possibly putting their eternal salvation in jeopardy).
The Bible mentions that this demon possessed man was unusually fierce and dangerous, so much so that the townspeople could not even use the roads in fear that they would be harmed or even killed by this demon possessed man. The demons who resided in this man recognized Jesus and even talked with Jesus, and they knew that Jesus had the power to expel them from the man. So the demons seeing a herd of pigs in the distance, told Jesus that if he was going to expel them from this man, then would Jesus allow the demons to enter into the herd of pigs. So Jesus expelled the demons and the demons left the man and entered into the pigs. Suddenly the pigs realized something was terribly wrong and every single pig rushed over the cliff to their death. The pigs evidently realized that they would rather be dead than to have those demons living within them.
Now the pig herders saw all this happening and they went to the town and told everyone all the details. Verse 17 tells of the townspeople response. "Then the people began to beg Jesus to leave their area." So the response of the townspeople was to tell Jesus to get out of there because they were holding Jesus responsible for the destruction of a whole herd of pigs. They were furious at Jesus because of this economic loss. All that these people could do was to scream at him because they no longer had this herd of pigs. So you can see that the people's only concern was the economic loss of the pigs.
What is really interesting is Jesus's response.
Jesus didn't try to explain to the townspeople that they no longer had to worry about this very dangerous demon possessed man. That he was no longer a threat to their safety. Nor did Jesus ask them if they wanted to know why this formerly demon possessed man was now able to sit there quietly, fully dressed, and in his right state of mind. Nor did he try to tell them that if he could expel demons from this man, then just think of the demons that he could expel from the rest of the townspeople. Neither did Jesus ask the people if they wanted to find out more about this man who could expel demons or why he even did what he did, or why he even came there in the first place. And Jesus certainly didn't argue with the people that the price of the pigs was rather small compared to their peace of mind and their eternal future. Jesus didn't even ask these people if they wanted to learn about the one who sent him. Jesus didn't do any of these things because he could see that the only thing any of these people really cared about was the economic loss of the pigs. They had their minds all made up and money was the number one thing in their lives. They exerted their free will and told Jesus to leave town and leave town now. They had exercised their free will.
Using their own free will, those people wanted nothing to do with Jesus. Their only interest was in worldly things and because of that, they told Jesus to hit the road and go some place else and kill pigs. Jesus knew exactly what was in their hearts, and that their minds were closed to anything that Jesus had to say. So what did Jesus do? Jesus simply turned around, boarded the boat and proceeded across the water and went into his own city. Without a word, he simply turned and left, and very possibly took with him their eternal salvation.
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit".
John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".
1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".
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Permalink Reply by AAG Netguy on
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Then, Gary, since you are saying that you don't believe the Bible is God's Word, that you do not to believe it to be true, that Jesus is not the Savior and that he is not the only way to be saved.... this is definitely not the network for you. I think you would be much happier elsewhere.
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Permalink Reply by forgiven on
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Once Saved Always Saved is always an intersting debate. Here is 'my' personal conclusion on it. If someone thinks there is no consequence for sin after accepting the Lord, that is their own business. I myself would not 'gamble' my salvation. I look to get closer to the Lord and learn of His ways, and challenge my own personal strongholds that keep me from obeying God in every way I am able. That being said, it seems that I always have more work to do. I will 'continue' to turn to the Lord in prayer, in His Word, and in seeking His Holy Spirit, and the 'spirit' of Holiness.
This is a personal choice: Either 'Be ready', or: 'Don't be ready'. It is a very clear and easy choice. It is not complicated to underestand.
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matthew 24:38-39
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins
“Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
“And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming;[a] go out to meet him!’ Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
“Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming. Matthew 25
I think the arguement is because we are reluctant to obey God. We 'want' to keep doing the things that we know in our hearts that we should change/repent. We are a stubborn and stiff-necked people, We want to 'have our cake and eat it too'. We want to be 'saved' but we do not want to obey His commandments, so we assure ourselves that we are justified because we 'said the words'...but we do not live the 'way the truth and the life'. (self included) -
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Matthew 21:28-31 (New King James Version)
The Parable of the Two Sons
“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’ He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went. Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?”
They said to Him, “The first.”
Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.
There is story after story in the bible like this. It seems to be a very recurring concern. -
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Hey beloved Michelle -
1. If God (not man) through His word persuades you to believe that you can't lose your salvation. You can still fellowship at your church if the primary doctrines are sound. Of course you should not go around trying to convince anyone else unless God tells you to or they start the conversation. I fellowship in a church that believes that you can lose your salvation. My pastor and most of the other pastors of the fellowship know of my convictions, but I have assured them that I will not teach my biblical conviction while I abide in the fellowship. There is so much to preach about that I never get around the topic of once saved always saved. Instead I preach about the assurance of the believer, which asks the question, how do I know I am saved?
2. Keep studying the word asking God to reveal the truth to you. Also, as you study keep both teachings in mind. The one that you can lose it and the other that you cannot and let scripture interpret itself.
3. Which verses are you struggling (either way) with sis? Come on now sis share with us.
Love you and I am confident that Our Lord will lead you to all truth. :)
Romans 5
Peace and Joy
1T herefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we[also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance... 9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! -
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May the Lord continue to bless and guide you Michelle. I have come to the same conclusion. You have stated this very clearly for all in your last post. What we have been given is the most valueable gift we will ever receive. Coming to the Lord is Holy, and should not be 'assumed' or treated caually. There is one other thing of equal beauty, this gift is to be shared. It is our 'joy' to include others in this joy, and I believe that this is the very Joy that warms God's own heart. Have a very blessed day.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hi Michelle,
I do not believe we can loose our salvation. God's Power will keep us. There is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, and there is nothing we can do to loose it. This life is not based on works. It is also not living casually...or in an 'assumed' position. To say it is, is a misunderstanding. A True Believer will not walk away... They may act out in rebellion for a time, but God will discipline them back to Him. God's forgiveness is unlimited.... That means there is no limit while we are living.
If a 'christian' leaves and does not get disciplined to return then scripture tells us they were not ever a Christian: 1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that [fn] it would be shown that they all are not of us.
Here's an article that says it very well.. I am certain I posted it earlier on this discussion or another one..but it would be beneficial to repeat it.
www.gotquestions.org
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"
Answer: Before this question is answered, the term “Christian” must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer, or walked down an aisle, or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what “makes” a Christian. A Christian is a person who has, by faith, received and fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? Perhaps the best way to answer this crucially important question is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation, and to study what losing salvation would therefore entail. Here are a few examples:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). This verse speaks of a person becoming an entirely new creature as a result of being “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be canceled and reversed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18-19). The word “redeemed” refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase that He paid for with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To “justify” means to “declare righteous.” All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is a promise of eternity (forever) in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever, how then can God break this promise by taking away eternal life?
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). As we learned in Romans 5:1, justification is declared at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification is guaranteed for all those whom God justifies. Glorification refers to a Christian receiving a perfect resurrection body in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
Many more illustrations of what occurs at salvation could be shared. Even these few make it abundantly clear that a Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Jesus Christ as Savior would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation cannot be reversed. A Christian cannot be un-newly created. Redemption cannot be undone. Eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal. If a Christian can lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and change His mind—two things that Scripture tells us God never does.
The most frequent objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation are 1) What about those who are Christians and continually live an immoral lifestyle? 2) What about those who are Christians but later reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these two objections is the phrase “who are Christians.” The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6). The Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19). Therefore, neither objection is valid. Christians do not continually live immoral lifestyles, nor do they reject the faith and deny Christ. Such actions are proof that they were never redeemed.
No, a Christian cannot lose salvation. Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28-29). God is both willing and able to guarantee and maintain the salvation He has given us. Jude 24-25, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
Recommended Resource: Eternal Security by Charles Stanley. -
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You are my sister in Christ Michelle, and I love you..
...this is a secondary issue.. ;-) Blessings, Carla -
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Beloved Michelle,
This is just between me and you (not 9000 members’ hahaha). Tell me beloved; forget the "once save always saved" and the "one can lose salvation" arguments.
This is just me and you remember :) Do you actually believe you will ever be able to turn from your Lord? He has become everything to you. He saved you. He saved you. You did not seek Him, He sought you. Did your Lord know you before the foundations of the Earth? Did your King know that you would be born and one day He would save you, only to have you through your "free will" walk away from Him?
Does He show us how powerful and Glorious He is by allowing the clay to determine their destiny? Or does He receive Glory for saving us despite our rebelliousness?
Can you walk away from your owner? Can anything else on this earth make you more joyful? What would you exchange Him for? Can a man be more pleasing to you? Can drugs make you fall in love as He has?
Can you dance with demons after dancing in tears of Joy with your Lord?
Can you walk away from Him Michelle? Who chose who? Who is God? Did He know you? Did He know what He was doing? Are you able to frustrate His purposes?
Can your free will overcome God's election of you? You do know you are chosen don't you? You do know you are His child, don't you?
Can our human’s examples of an Earthly father do justice to the God of Glory? Who wins in your life, God or your will?
Can you forget about the one that gave you new life ever? Is your free will stronger than God's purposes?
I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT YOU TO KNOW 100% THAT YOU WOULD NEVER TURN FROM GOD AND IF YOU EVER (MAY IT NEVER BE) DID FALL INTO HABITUAL SIN, YOU WOULD WITH YOUR FACE ON THE DUST BEG YOUR KING FOR FORGIVENESS. YOU WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO LIVE WITHOUT HIM, SO HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SALVATION?
Ok we are back to AAG. Let us look at those verses you brought up.
>>Ezekiel 3:20 (New International Version)
20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
Who put a stumbling block before the knuckle head that is sinning? Where did free will go? Out the window I suppose. Is God respecting His free will?
Job 42
1 Then Job replied to the LORD : 2 "I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted. 3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?' Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. 4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.' 5 My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. 6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes."
Our God is an awesome God. He does not need my permission for anything.
Sis God says - I put a stumbling block. His kid is sinning, does God say - Go right ahead nock yourself out. Do your thing boy I can't mess with your free will, which I gave you. Nope! With some He takes their lives away. To others He may allow them to go on sinning for as long as He decides. Every soul belongs to the Lord. But we been taught God is a gentlemen who respects our free will. Sis forget that and see the God of the bible. Untamed, adventurous, Beautiful, Awesome, Powerful etc... Jonah wanted to do his own thing and God said, it ain't happening, I made you. Paul was on the road to do his own will and God said, I don't think so; you are in my team now. Peter was fishing and the Lord said, follow me. The list goes on and on and on. Does this take men's responsibilities for their actions and decisions, not at all, but behind our actions and decisions there is God allowing and rerouting as His good pleasure wants. For He is Holy and perfect.
Yes we have freedom to choose according to what God allows. We are not robots, but we are not running the Universe, He is.
First of all this verse is not about losing salvation, but about the prophet's (God's leaders) responsibility to warned God's people. A prophet should not be negligent or God will hold him accountable. James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Let's break it down:
Remember we are talking about Old Testaments people, who did not have the seal of the Holy Spirit. But they were saved through faith as well. So we see that there is a person who is doing right. The person falls into sin and God takes their live, which we have examples of God doing throughout scripture and holds the prophet accountable. Then the verse says that the righteous things they did will not be remember, but this does not mean, since is not specified, that they will not be remembered in heaven, but most likely on Earth. So how do we get that one can lose their salvation from this verse? What they lost was their live as God chastised them.
>>John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".
The vine has two types of branches. Branches that give fruit and others that don't. the ones that do are true believers the other are those who either profess to be in Christ but are not or they represent apostate Christians, which are those who never genuinely believed.
Matthew 7:17
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit
Luke 13:7
So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, 'For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?' 8" 'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.' "
John 15:4
Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
Only the true children of God will bear fruit and abide in Him. Those that do not abide in Him, because they do not belong to Him don't.
John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.
>>1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".
13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
This is not talking about salvation either. Read the chapter and please tell me how this verse can be use to fall from salvation. It is speaking about being careful to become prideful and think they have reached a place where one cannot fall into sin, just to find out that we are still subject to fall into it.
>>There is too much Biblical scripture to indicate otherwise.
I am not tire of discussing any biblical issue beautiful sis, so shoot a way, one by one each scripture and we will go through each one. Praying and allowing context to define the meaning of the scripture. THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE THAT SAYS YOU CAN LOOSE YOUR SALVATION. There are verses that people add that meaning to. But not one verse stating plainly that salvation can be lost. However I can post and imprsive list showing the opposite. That God will keep you.
Love you sis and I care about you and that you believe the truth. -
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Michelle
>>If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
Sister I trust you know I love you in Christ and respect you. Is never my intentions to be rude or insulting, but there are statements made by our family such as the one above that leave on to ask. Is this man/woman saved? How can they have such a poor understanding of Scripture? Only an unbeliever or a confused child of God can think like that. The child, God will correct. The other is not His and will be left without correction.
I will place here a common example use by preachers :)
Before Salvation: I get up late and I am rushing. The wife tells me as I am heading out the door, take the trash out. I yelled back are you crazy I am running late, why do you always blah blah blah jump in my car and do it all over again the next day.
The same guy becomes born again: He gets up late and he is rushing. The wife tells me as I am heading out the door, take the trash out. I yelled back are you crazy I am running late, why do you always blah blah blah jump in my car and as I am driving to work the Holy Spirit stabs me in the heart and tells me you are wrong. You sin against me and against your wife. Call her and apologize. But I struggle with the Spirit and don’t call. The Spirit won’t let me be and I end up caving in and calling her to apologize or as soon as I get home and I am given a chance to repent I do. The Spirit will not allow me to not repent to my Lord and my wife. Then He starts the process of sanctification where that man is not even recognized.
The other guy who only made a superficial confession does not get the conviction of the Spirit and can put up the mask on Sunday at church, but the child of God is growing and changing. A child of God will be convicted. A child of God comes to detest the sin that in the past enslaved Him and that now keeps him from being all God has called him to become.
Romans 6
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
1 John 1
Walking in the light
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
Here comes the crazy part though. Once a person is born again, yes he can kill, steal, commit adultery, rape etc... And remain saved, ohhh but i would not want to be them. God is gonna correct them. Peter committed the worst sin ever. He denied Christ. Christ brought conviction/correction and forgave him.
Blessings -
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Michelle,
From the Article you posted to start this discussion:
>>According to this text, "If we walk in the darkness, then we do not live by the truth." If our heart is not repentant when we sin, if our attitude is one of disobedience to the Laws and Commandments of God, if we turn away from God, if we live a life of sin, if we decide the effort to lead a Godly life is not worth it, if the actions of our lives indicate that we no longer desire to be one of God's children, then we don't lose our salvation, and salvation isn't taken from us, but we through our own free will, take our salvation and give it back to God. We tell God we don't want it. We give it up!!!
Ezekiel 3:20 "If the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die".
Ok I already dealt with Ezek 3:20 is a physical death and not a spiritual. I would like one New Testestament example that shows us that someone can give their salvation back to God. One would suffice. There is no such an example. It is scary how someone can quote verses and missed the whole message of the verses as the author of this article does by quoting the following verses and interpreting in the wrong way. He is using tradition and what He has been taught to interpret them and not the Holy Spirit that will lead us to all truth. This is a secondary issue so not so much damage is being done but check it out:
>>So ask yourself this question. What is the only way to gain eternal salvation? There are a great many verses that tell us the answer. Below are just two of them:
Ephesians 2:8-9 "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God's gift."
1Peter 1:5 "Those who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
God makes salvation completely available through Jesus Christ - and not only to specific individuals, but to all who will receive and believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus made this very clear when he said, "Whoever believes in me would not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) The word "whoever" includes everybody. No person is excluded from the opportunity to believe and receive everlasting life.
Ephesians 2:8-9 is saying we are saved by grace through faith and that faith is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God. Is not talking about the grace since grace is obviously not from us. So the faith to believe is a gift. So not even my faith, excuse me (not my faith), the faith to believei is mine, but rather is a gift. Is not my gift to God, but rather the faith was given to me, so I could freely believe and confess. 1 Peter 1:5 So we are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation. Ok so we are kept by God unto salvation through faith.
1 John 5 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
So sis everyone born again will overcome the world. Why and how? Through our faith in Christ and how did we exercise faith in Christ? Ohhh by God giving us faith to believe and once we believed, we will kept by the power of God through that same faith in Christ. Not because I do great works or because I do not return the gift of faith.
Blessings -
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Michelle,
From the Article you posted to start this discussion :
>>Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are committing those sins mentioned in the above paragraph, then you simply don't believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
Our salvation I based upon faith. Yes, but we do not ignore all the verses that teach us that we have been chosen. That we are elected and that our faith is a gift of God. Remember the faith to believe was a gift of God. Ephes. 2:8-9.
>>A person committing such sins certainly indicates that the persons no longer have any faith or belief in Jesus.
What? So all the men of God that have committed horrible sins lose and regain and lose and regain their salvation? Or lose it once and for all. That is crazy to believe. God will allow us to play ping pong with our salvation. Erase His name, no wait write it. Oopps he is at it again, erase his name. Ohhh he repented, add it again. Come on.
>>If you decide to walk in the darkness then your salvation will not be taken away from you, nor will you lose your salvation. No, what you will do is give up your salvation.
What? So what happens with?
Hebrews 12
4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
"My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."
Blessings -
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