WHAT IS ARMINIANISM AND CALVINISM

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 15, 2010 at 10:59pm

Is a very simple answer sister Amanda,

>>Why debate it?

Because we want to worship God in Spirit and in truth? And for those among us called to teach and preach, well we want to make sure we have done all we can to rightly divide the word of God. Luther was a prolific writer and debater.

>>” I would be glad to debate in detail against these wicked statements if the uncertain state of my health made it possible for me to do so.” Luther wrote.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on August 16, 2010 at 5:12am

Mt 11:8 "What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? NIV

As I read the words of Luther I am reminded of another man who prophesied in the desert about the coming of the Lord. His name, of course, was John known as the Baptist. As he sat in prison awaiting his death, his mind began to challenge. He began to question his own actions. The world in which he lived was not worthy. Yet, he did live in this world. He faced the wicked religious enemies of God of his day. The religious structure of the day completely rejected him and his teaching. "Are you the one?" he asked.

Luther also had challenged the religious structure of his day. In his ambition to correctly represent God to his society, had he gotten it correct? Or, had he missed something in that which drove him to stand against the known religious sentiment of his time?

Every true man of God will question himself. The Holy Spirit will enlighten him but the religious will vehemently oppose. The enthusiasm that comes from the Spirit will subside at times just as it did in Elijah who stood against the Ahab and Jezebel and then questioned his actions. The vehicles that God uses are subject to this. Luther was a great man and the cry of his heart is that he correctly represents God.

Was John like a bruised reed swaying in the wind? God uses weak human vessels to make His glory known throughout the world. In comparison we see Jesus who was fixed as a flint with His face to the wind. He was determined, resolute to accomplish that which was God's will. The weak earthly vessels sway but are not pushed to the ground. They are bruised, but do not break. What great men do we have in our history! What do you see when you look at these that stood against the religious opposition to God?

I see some things that are absolute and cannot be denied:
1) God does predestinate those who will come to Him,
2) He does have an elect,
3) He does have a plan,
4) He has purpose for that which He does,
5) He will accomplish that plan.

It is true that God has revealed much to us through His Son. However, He has not revealed all and thus the disagreements. To those who believe in the Son - they should take comfort that they are the elect - those predestined to come to God. What we don't know absolutely is the basis of this election. Is it simply that God just foreknows those who will choose Him? This seems to many to be fair and expresses the feelings of many their idea of what God should be like. Does He give them just enough of His grace to allow them to make their own choice? I could never take that position because I don't see the Scriptural basis for the claim. However, I can neither say that I do know the basis of His election. What I do believe is that there is a method yet unrevealed.

What I believe is that Jesus came here with a mission. He came to redeem those who would come to Him. He calls them His sheep. He refers to them as a lost treasure and a priceless gem worth more than all the riches of this universe. He came to get all those the Father had given Him. These belong to Him. No one will ever be able to take even one of these lost ones out of His hand. They have been ordained to be His from before the foundation of the earth. They were His plan in the beginning. They believe in Him. They hear His voice and they follow Him. He gives them a new birth and a new life. They will live with Him through all eternity.

Do you believe in Him? Do you testify of this faith? You should not question, then, your destiny. Do you believe that God came to get you. Have you humbled yourself and asked Him to save you? He will save you. You can be confident in Him. He will get you home.

Are you greater than Elijah or John, the Baptist? You will challenge yourself. Satan will buffet you. You will question your salvation. Take refuge in your Savior. Trust in Him. Do you hear His voice? Do you find Him when you read Scripture? Or, is the Bible just a good religious book to you? If you have found Christ through hearing His Word, be of great cheer. Christ has redeemed you.

So many have been confused by the religious attempting to make this a salvation of works. There have always been those who will create a system of works. I have challenged that system of works ever since He set me free from it. I have been battered and bruised but I still know that my salvation is completely in Jesus alone. It is His responsibility to get me home and I am completely confident that He will do so. I belong to Him. I am no longer my own.

There are many out there that belong to Him that are confused by the man-made system of works. I was once brought before a church council for the crime of allowing a man who smoked cigarettes join the church. I told the leaders that the man was closer to God than any of them. I can tell you that that council ended in such great uproar and confusion that they forgot all about me. I was bringing them all up on charges because either they or their wives were fat. Surely God could not save a fat person. These man-made rules are worthless. You can't do this and you must do that. That is not where Christ is. That is religion which will save no one. Self discipline is good but it cannot save you. To be saved you must be born again; only the Spirit can do that and He does that to who He wills. What is the criteria? I don't know.

There is no sin in questioning yourselves. However, in the end your faith must be in Christ and not in yourselves. The only book that makes any sense in this world is the Holy Bible. However, it is a hidden letter written to us straight from the heart of God. Not everyone will hear the message but His sheep will. Preach the Word.

As Luther stated above:
For this is why He has given you the strongest proofs of His trustworthiness and truth. He has given His Son into the flesh and into death, and He has instituted the sacraments, in order that you may know that He does not want to be deceitful, but that He wants to be truthful. Nor does He confirm this with spiritual proofs; He confirms it with tangible proofs. For I see the water, I see the bread and the wine, and I see the minister. All this is physical, and in these material forms He reveals Himself. If you must deal with men, you may be in doubt as to the extent to which you may believe a person and as to how others may be disposed toward you; but concerning God you must maintain with assurance and without any doubt that He is well disposed toward you on account of Christ and that you have been redeemed and sanctified through the precious blood of the Son of God. And in this way you will be sure of your predestination, Luther

He may have been pushed around by his peers, but he was never broken. He was resolute, "The just shall live by faith." Before you get all upset about the reference to the sacraments, think about what he is saying.

In Christ alone,
Roy

Permalink Reply by Rod Askew on August 16, 2010 at 5:32am

Amen Roy
Praise God he is faithful .
Wonderful truths you have told here
Amen Amen

Blessings
Rod

Permalink Reply by William Bixby on August 25, 2010 at 3:58am

Hi, Linda Ruth . . . possibly you are saying our first concern needs to be not just the doctrinal question of if we have free will or we are predestined, but first do we really "agape" God? And your dream to me seems to mean, like I think you are saying, that going out to convert people, without first feeding on Jesus is not going to get them with Jesus.

"You prepare a table before me
. . . . . in the presence of my enemies;
. You anoint my head with oil;
. My cup runs over." (Psalm 23:5)

So, right "in the presence of" any enemies, at all, we can have God's own table prepared before us, for feeding us Jesus so we can reach our enemies who will be there for us so we can reach them! "This is basic." If this is in your cup, "My cup runs over" (in Psalm 23:5) with whatever is in my cup, to make others the same way. "So we need to have what we want to spread."

So, Paul has written, "My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19) Plus, Peter wrote that "without a word" the wives could win a man who was not obeying . . . 1 Peter 3:1-4; this includes, "rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." By being "gentle and quiet" in God's Spirit of His agape love (Romans 5:5), I see that this makes someone be like Jesus who says "I am gentle and lowly in heart," in Matthew 11:29. And here is how Paul says to love: "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2); so here we see this thing about being lowly and gentle, like Jesus, in His own love.

If our wills are really free to choose, this is what to constantly choose. If we are predestined, this is what is predestined!

So, having correct words of doctrine is not enough. If we are choosing, are we choosing to become like Jesus in His own love's beauty making us preciously pleasing to our Father like Jesus in us makes us pleasing to Him? It does say, "as He is, so are we in this world," in 1 John 4:17. So predestination, then, for that matter, does not mean procrastination until "after we die". Because Paul says those "predestined" are those He "predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son," in Romans 8:29, and that we "were baptized into His death" (in Romans 6:3); so we already have died so we can become perfected in His love, now. So, are we becoming like Jesus, "in this world"?

So, loving God is not a theoretical thing of just doing what we can understand He wants us to do. And loving Him is not like how humans can pick someone and love that person like the person is an object at some distance. But Jesus growing in us shares with us how He is intimately sharing with and submissive to our Father, all the time, and so pleasing in His love's "incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit". Before He made all things, our Father had such beautifully wonderful love sharing with His Son; He was so pleased with Jesus, I understand, that He "had" to have more who are like Jesus; so He made this universe as His place for having and bringing up children who are like Jesus. "He could not eat just one peanut!" Love destined, that God will have us becoming like His Son, "in this world." 1 John 4:17 says, "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." So, our "boldness in the day of judgment" comes with being all-loving in the presence of our enemies, while being pleasing to our Father, "as He is . . . in this world."

Permalink Reply by RoyW on August 16, 2010 at 8:09am

Amanda,

I agree. Amen and amen.

Roy

Permalink Reply by RoyW on August 16, 2010 at 5:47pm

Wow! This lady does have the Word deep in her heart. Jesus said,
Jn 6:51
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." NIV

Jn 6:54-55
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. NIV

Mary has chosen the higher purpose!

I am very excited for the Word that is pouring out of you, sister.

Roy

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 16, 2010 at 4:23pm

Amanda -

I agree with you. I will only give one of my regular reminders here. We are one body with many different members. Those who want to keep things as simple as possible and do not desire to understand the differences that exist among the multiple denominations or theological schools of thought are just as important in the body as those who hold multiple PHD's.

The thing is that the guy holding a PhD should not think that the person that has no interest in venturing into to the multitude of doctrines has no love for God's word or a desire to know Him deeply.

The person who is contend with their understanding of scripture and does not venture in to research as to why there are two major schools of theology etc, should not think that the person looking at all the different issues does not know God as they do. They should not think that they are too busy researching to actually live the word.

If we fall into any of the above state of mind, we have fallen into error. I am sure some among us do what they do for the praise of men. Whether it is the one with titles or the one that proudly states, I stick to the bible only. I am so busy blessing people that I have no time to venture into useless research/study of why millions believe what they believe, is a wrong attitude.

So the suppose humble and suppose learnt individual can fall into unbiblical attitudes.

If we however understand that we are one body with different members, with different callings, then we are free to love one another in the bond of peace and love we have in Christ.

The Holy Spirit has guided my studies. Example:

I would be reading the word and thoughts like the following will popped in my mind. Why are there Baptist and Lutherans etc, I fellowshipped at a Pentecostal church at the time, but as I drive by different churches the Spirit would prick at my heart to visit some. So I would stop get the schedule of services and visit them on a day that my church did not have a service. I have done that so many times, that I can't tell you a number.

The one visit that blew me away was when the Spirit asked me to stop at a particular church, which I did not know at the time was a Oneness Pentecostal church. I did not know about their beliefs, that Jesus is the father and the Holy Spirit as well. As I tend to do, I introduced myself and mingle with the family. I always let them know I belong to a church already and just wanted to stop by and see what our Lord was doing in their midst. I am well received 9 out of 10 times. This particular visit blew me away, because I truly enjoyed the service. The Spirit of the Lord was almost palpable in that place, but I later learned as I read their literature that there theology is a bit wacked hahaha and I could not understand why God was there? I was debating with God, Lord but they think you are one person and not three. I felt God telling me, son I know their hearts, you don't. Then God gave me a huge hunger to understand why there are millions of Christians that believe the opposite of other millions of Christians. Not to win debates. But to seek the truth, because logically they can't all be right and I wanted to make sure, by a God given desire, that I was worshipping God correctly.

This meant willing to change and learn and also be ready to be dislike by the church I so much love. When brothers jump in my car and see books I am reading I get the usual what are you doing reading that stuff haha

Please do not miss understand me I am not saying "poor me", that is far from who God has built me to be, nor am I complaining, nor looking for praise. I am nothing without God and all praise belongs to Him. All good things come from above. All I am saying is that when we understand that we are one body with multiple different members. We can coexist without criticizing one another and actually even enjoy the diversity. I do not see you as criticizing but always wanting the body to remember that love should drive all we do and so I am in agreement with you.

Sister Linda - good observation. Our priority is to bring Glory and praises to our King first and formost with our lives.

Blessings.

Permalink Reply by Carla on August 15, 2010 at 4:08pm

Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

PRAISE GOD SIS... PRAISE GOD! HALLELUJAH!

Permalink Reply by Carla on August 15, 2010 at 5:26pm

Oh Yes.. Praise God... We will Praise Him forever.. Eternity begins now... ;-)

Permalink Reply by RoyW on August 17, 2010 at 4:16am

John Bunyan was an early 17th century Christian. He was imprisoned in England for twelve years for preaching these truths that David is presenting to us. In prison he started a book that became the second greatest English speaking book of all times, second only to the Bible. The book, of course , Pilgrim's Progress. It is a required read in our school. When you read the allegorical story of Christian who also carried a heavy weight around on his back, you see a person like Linda who is also on her journey to the beautiful Celestial city. John Bunyan, like Rod and Linda, learned how to lay that burden down and allow our beautiful Savior to carry it for them.

Let me tell you, it is a huge job to get some of you yahoos to the Celestial home. You belong to that city of destruction and rightfully so. But, you read that beautiful Book and decide you want to leave that city for a better one. And so, like Christian, you pick up a huge back pack and start off on that journey. From time to time, our Lord will say to you to allow Him to carry that for you but you are quick to tell Him that you are doing fine and don't want Him to bother with it. And so you continue on your way carrying that huge weight around on your back. Again, Jesus says to you, "Here, you carry mine and I will carry yours." He says, "mine is easy and yours is so difficult. Please, let me carry that for you."

I remember the day, the hour some thirty-six years ago when I handed him mine. I was in a room I called the upper room. Actually, it was an upstairs room in an old church that I spend hours in. I don't know why I liked that room so much. But it was there that one day, all alone, I handed that heavy weight to my Lord and He has been carrying it for me ever since.

Yes, I know it's a big job to get me to that beautiful city. Jesus, though, long ago paid the heavy price for my ticket there. On His way to Calvary, He picked up the tremendously heavy weight of my sin and carried it all the way to that beautiful hill and nailed it to the cross. I have apologized many times for attempting to take away His glory by carrying that weight. I apologized for claiming any credit for my salvation. I don't go around in this life worrying about my salvation. I gave that worry to Him. He fought a great battle in the Garden and later on the cross but He won that battle. He was fighting for me. When I hear people talking about how much they are striving to live their life for Christ I cringe. I just want to scream, "Quit glorifying yourselves. Glorify Him. Rejoice that all your sins are forgiven. Quit talking about what you are doing and talk more of what He has already done for you. Quit preaching yourselves and start preaching Him."

Well, I better be careful or I will get offensive again. Give those burdens to Christ.

Love to all,
Roy

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 15, 2010 at 4:42pm

Thanks for sharing Sister Linda.

PRAISE GOD FOR ALL HE IS DOING IN ALL OF US and through us. I am extremely blessed to hear what God's living word is doing in you, by the Spirit. Praise God for AAG, which allows us to have church with our worldwide family.

Blessings beloved in Christ. :)

Permalink Reply by RoyW on August 16, 2010 at 6:37am

Wow! Just look at the life in that face. It shines like the noon day sun. Linda, you and Rod are going to minister to many.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 7
• 8
• 9
• 10
• 11
• …
• 14
• Next ›
• Page