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How should we interpret the book of Revelations?
I touched on this subject on one of my groups a whlle back and will share it here as well since some are interested on the subject.
http://www.allaboutgod.net/group/theologygroup/forum/topics/how-sho...
1. Symbolically?
2. Literally?
3. As a series of visions that John saw of the modern world but didnt understand?
If 1, then how can we know we have the right meaning for the symbols?
If 2, then are we to expect a large monster to come out of the sea according to rev 13?
If 3, then do the locusts in the 6th trumpet mean helicopters? What would the beasts of rev 13 be?
--- can this book be understood? If so, how? How is it a "blessing to all who read it" if no one can tell for sure what it means???
Rev 13:17-18 talks about the "mark of the beast" and "his name" being put on peoples arms or forheads. 2 verses later in 14:1, we hear of God's name being written on the righteous saints heads.
Is one literal and the other figurative? That doesn't seem consitent! Is the mark of the beast a microchip, while the name of God on the righteouss' forheads just an acknowledgment that they belong to God???
This is one example of a need for a clear and consistent Hermeneutic (relating to or consisting in the interpretation of texts) for interpreting Revelation!!!
But what worries me is that many Christians get caught up with the microship instead of looking at some real issues when interpreting the book. Tabloid theology goes wild with this subject and those that want to be prepare for the end times, when we have been living in the end times since Jesus ascended, end up being mislead and confussed and many times full of fears.
Who is the book of revelation written to?
I love you in Christ family.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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David, here is my two cents:
The following is my view and approach and it will not align with everyone's view and approach for various reasons, nostly interpretative reasons.
It is to be read straight forward as presented with the understanding that symbolism is used in various places.
Straightforward: Meaning when the simple truth makes sense it is the truth. We do not need to look for various hidden meanings behind every statement. When symbolism is employed it is straight forward with the symbolism representative of something that when defined or revelaed brings clarity to the straight forward truth. This is true even when mulitiple pieces of symbolism are employed. Onced defined or revealed the plain truth is revealed.
Symbolism: Symbolism is defined by Scripture when previously used. If the symbol is not defined in Scripture and speaks to future events it will be revealed as the prophecy is unfolding. Every guess in advance is simply personal speculation. Many will say that God has given them clear insight on the matter and that settles it. I will give one example of the problem that this view of personal enlightenment brings. Babylon, will it be Rome, the old city rebuilt or New York City? There are people in each camp who believe they have figured it out under God's direction. Who is right or could they all be wrong and God is yet to reveal the true future Babylon to anyone? Back to the locust. Are they symbolic of helicopters, something yet to be invented or could God actually create such beings? The question is not really open to what one thinks, but only can be answered when we are given a clear answer that leaves not doubt. With out the 100% guarantee as to being right it is relegated to speculation even if seen as probable. Probable also means possibly not.
End times: I agree with you that the end times kicked off at the death and resurrection of Jesus. We are awaiting the last days of the end times, primarily the tribulation period.
Reading the book: The book is not written in chronological order from chapter 1 to 22. It is layered in a similar fashion that Genesis 1 and 2 are layered.
Who is the book written to?: The church down through the ages. It is given as a beacon of hope and not as a dooms day machine. The end will come, but the bride is found in Jesus.
Should we study prophesy? Yes, but not become so consumed with it that we are paralyzed in the present. We have a mission to fulfill for Christ and that mission is not to assume that we have figured out His work, as some famous authors assume they have. Note that even if we had compelling evidence that we had it all figured out it would not compel one unbeliever to repent and be saved, or at best a very few, based on the Scripture itself in Revelation. They will see these things happening and still not repent. Our mission is to share the gospel, the good news. Our commission is to reach the lost and to disciple the saved.
Last thought:
Work as if the rapture were going to happen tomorrow and prepare as if you will go through the full tribulation. For no matter what you and I believe about the end ... we could be wrong. Only God has the full picture in view.
Again, my two cents,
LT
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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We are in agreement. :)
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Permalink Reply by Heis Near on
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YOYOYO!
The Revelation was written for the saints. Your right on all three (1.2.3.) but there is an added 4th. Etymology. There were things said in Revelation that a person in the first century would have understood better than us. (example: the white stone - given to the winner of ancient games)
Many believe the microchip to be the mark of the beast. However, with all the deceptionary tactics of this world, this could be nothing more than distraction while the real mark is being pushed. It may be or it may not. In Islamic eschatology (some believe), it is said that Islam will be the world religion and they will make you bow to their God or die, When you bow you will have the 'marks' of prostration when the dirt hits your hands and you forehead.
This subject is vast. I have studied a lot about it. But, human wisdom and knowledge will not understand it let alone believe that its true. God gives us the knowledge when we show interest and make ourelves available to him. God bless you.
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Hello.
It was late when I wrote so allow me to clarify my point. Any believer will be blessed by reading Revelation. The stakes are so high right now that to say it has been opened up only to teachers would elude to believing only teachers and scholars will know the intricacies of Revelation. In the last days we must be like the Bereans but study even more.
By prayer, reading/studying, fasting, obedience, and all that followers of Jesus do or should do, the Word is opened up repeatedly. When it was written that the disciples minds were opened to understand the scriptures, Jesus opened their minds to understanding it more than they did than when they lived, ate, and walked with Jesus. Knowing Jesus intimately is the key.
Many secular historians and science-minded scholars have scientifically tried to figure out or disprove the supernatural events to happen in Revelation. Newton claimed by his calculations that the end of the world was in 2025. Charles Taze Russell of the JW's said that he knew the end time events were upon the world in 1914 because of a map of a pyramid in Egypt and its lengths, dimensions, etc....
REVELATION IS TRUE - JESUS SPOKE! Lastly, the servants in the end times would be guided, directed and warned in the coming times. There is so much disinformation being thrown in with what the Bible says that one cannot rely on teachers, preachers, nor anyone else to open their Bible for them. I have heard a mountain of hearsay these days. The occult/new age is drizzling their beliefs over mine. By having a realtionship with the Lord, Revelation is being opened up to servants/disciples with their hearts set on the Savior.
God bless
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WOW!
I am befuddled. Before I answer anything, let me ask you:
1) Do you think in Revelation 4:1, when John is told to "come up", that this is somehow a rapture message?
2) Suppose the desired rapture message isn't true. How much more devastating would this be to baby Christians and people that put all their stock in a pre-trib rapture? Wouldn't many people's faith be crushed instantly since they were told that they would escape?
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Heis -
True that my bro. I enjoyed your posts. Let's include the 4th element then...
Etymology is the study of the history of words, where they are from, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.
For languages with a long written history, etymologists make use of texts in these languages, and texts about the languages, to gather knowledge about how words were used at earlier stages, and when they entered the languages in question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology
>>There is so much disinformation being thrown in with what the Bible says that one cannot rely on teachers, preachers, nor anyone else to open their Bible for them.
By God's grace and for His glory their remains always a remnant that are faithful to our Lord and to interpreting His word. No one has it 100% right. No one that I know of at least. Your statement is right on. God will open up our minds as we seek Him. His Holy Spirit is our teacher. I am sure you will agree that we are blessed to still have some awesome pastors, teachers etc for the edifying of the body as well.
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DV-
I agree with you on the last point. I believe the best apologists, contenders, (real) preachers and teachers are living today, in the last days, for such a purpose.
I have learned an incredible amount from the people in God's end time army; such knowledgable and righteous believers in Christ as: Dr. James White, Dr. Troy Welch, Sam Shamoun, Leonard Ravehill, Dr. Walter Martin, street preachers, and especially any believer who has a heart for God.
There are many teachers and preachers to watch out for since some have diluted the gospel to varying degrees and new age practices are being embraced in the church. People are getting into pseudo-kabbalahic gematria and other crazy stuff because if your pastor says it's good then it must be godly.
AS it is written, my people are destroyed for their lack of knowledge, we must study, be praying, fasting all the time. I cannot stress the importance of studying, especially in the end times? With so many destructive heresies floating around, if the foundation should be corrupted, what can the righteous do? Quit listening to the Joel Osteens and Oprahs maybe.
I know what etymology is since I have been studying multiple languages for about 15 years. I went to an institute for Hebrew, learned Arabic in Qu'ranic studies, (and a few more) I speak spanish and recognize the many patterns of language itself. To speak multiple languages one must understand language in the first place and not just study words.
When I used the word ETYMOLOGY, I was applying one characteristic of it. To understand the word and its use at the time it was written. Example: the white stone as I mentioned.
So to sum up your original question yes it is those three you listed but there are more elements to it. 1-Symbolic - yes, one example: the meaning of the horns in Revelation are described/intepreted in Daniel. 2-Literally - yes, one example: since Jesus said he would come back to earth this cannot be symbolic. 3-Did he see things from the modern world and couldn't describe them - maybe, but his description of the things he saw fit descriptions in other prophecies and visions of the old testament. Not to say that he couldn't see the future event as it would happen but, It seems that God uses a pattern and specific symbols to get a specific point across, this message just happened to be the end of all things.
God bless you my brother in Christ
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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The first thing, in my opinion my brother, is to get the first things right.
And the first thing in the book tells us that it is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ". (not plural revelationS, but a holistic revelation of the Lord and Savior).
The second thing is to read where it promises a blessing to the reader, for diligently reading it.
Finally, I think most theologians get some of the finer details wrong. But, you know what? I could be wrong about that. What is important is to realize that Jesus is revealing some key things about himself there that we would NOT know completely, from any other book.
I think people get spun around the axle on some of the symbology - instead of being awed by the plain and clear facts being presented. That would be a great discussion for the forum: "what are the clear and plain points from Revelation that we need to pay attention to?"
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Good point - there are things in Revelation that we would never know about Jesus if it were not for that book.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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You won't find this one in your commentaries but please give it some thought. I could change my mind on this one.
Rev 12:10-11
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
What a beautiful Book with a glorious message. Here we have a remarkable passage. Is this referring to a past, present or future event? Gaining an interpretation of this passage, requires study, devotion, and prayer. I could never give a definitive interpretation of this chapter. Who is the woman? Who is the male child? The dragon is identified as Satan and I accept that is who it is. The woman - is it Israel as some say or is it the church as many say? There is undoubtedly a woman in Scripture. I am not going to comment on the identity.
The male child - that one is very interesting. What was John seeing? Is the child, Jesus? If so, when was He snatched up to heaven. It doesn't seem as if this was referring to His ascension after the resurrection.
However, I would like to look at an event that may be an interpretation of what is taking place. It is a past event. Today, the church operates primarily according to Paul's Gospel. We know it is not his as he received it by revelation directly from Christ. However, it is quite obvious in the early part of the church, there was a great war going on between those of grace and those of law. The primary struggle was with those who wanted to keep a part of the law.
When I read these verses of Satan being the accuser of the brothers, I see a courtroom with a battle taking place. It appears that Satan and Michael were really going at it. Could this battle be something like a courtroom battle? Or, did they have their swords out just going at it. I doubt the latter. The courtroom like battle makes more sense to me. Whatever it was, they were really going at one another with all the angels in support of one or the other. The issue at stake was who had a right to God's people.
Now, my vision of the courtroom would be one similar to what we have in the United States, but it is very possible that His courtroom would not resemble ours completely. Anyway, Satan had won the battle for man in the Garden. He convinced Eve to break God's command followed by Adam's disobedience and so death came upon all mankind. Satan was struggling to have to release his grip upon those he felt were rightfully his. Satan's greatest weapon, of course, would be the law. In this battle, man has an adversary and an advocate. Our advocate, of course, is not Michael but Jesus Himself. Jesus was called, snatched up, whatever, to give testimony. His life was completely examined. The issue became Jesus more than man. Did Jesus really fulfill every demand God had established for the redemption of man? Did He have a right to reclaim him who had fallen?
Could there have been such a battle at the cross or just subsequent to it? Could this battle have been taking place in the mid AD 60's? Whenever it was taking place, I kind of think it involved man and the rule of God through man because of the reference to the Kingdom of God which has to do with God ruling with man. What was God, here, giving man that Satan was so enraged about?
What were the angels doing in the battle? Were the angels involved in the ministry of Christ here on the earth. Were they the ones investigating His life determining the rules in effect for a complete victory over sin? In this courtroom, the truth will have to be told. Satan would not be allowed to bring up anything that was not absolutely true. It's very difficult to lie to God Who knows all. The Book of the Law was brought out and the life of Christ had to be examined. Every detail of the Law had to be fulfilled. The rule book was so detailed and demanding Satan had felt very secure in the idea that no one would ever be able to obey it all. The dragon fought but Michael had the goods. Every movement, every act of Christ had to be observed and reported. Even His thoughts would have to be pure. There could not be even be one small rule broken. Only perfection would do. Of course, we know the outcome. Satan was utterly defeated as God's demands were demonstrated as being totally met.
Satan was cast down. Now, he had a bigger problem. The rule book by which he brought condemnation against God's beloved was also cast down.
Rev 12:10 "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ. NIV
I think this event has to be interpreted as an event that took place in the past.
At one time Jesus said He saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning. A reference to this even might be in Colossians:
Col 2:13-15
He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. NIV
Jesus disarmed the powers and authorities and made a public spectacle of them. He triumphed over them by the cross. It is very difficult to make a case against us when the rule book has been canceled. Now, the only question that remains is that of faith expressing itself in love.
A great victory was won on our behalf on that day. Now we walk in total victory and freedom. This next verse makes me wonder if it didn't happen after the martyrdom of those early saints. Anyway, the battle is won. Satan fell like lightning. He was made a public spectacle and we are the ones who benefit from the life of Christ.
11 They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death. NIV
Today, God's commandments are to believe in His Son and testify of Him. Whatever the interpretation is, I really do think Satan has been disarmed and totally defeated.
In Christ,
Roy
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