How well do you know Catholic Christianity?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on May 24, 2010 at 9:28am

Hi Brother Michael!

I am sorry to have taken so long to reply to your response to my original post. You brought up some very interesting ideas and your post is so heart-felt that I wanted to really think out my reply. Below is my response. Remember the bold text is your words and my responses are in plain text.

Michael, I think you are an amazing person in Christ and I am proud to have this opportunity to discuss our Christian faith.


Sharon, I'm sorry that you have been hurt or offended by any comments or discussions in the AAG community.

Thank you for your compassion.

When I left Mormonism (now many years ago), I felt a strong desire to investigate a "real" Christian Church, and after visiting the Methodists, Lutherans, and Anglicans, I began worshipping in a Roman Catholic Church, and I appreciated being welcomed there.

I am so happy that you felt welcome.

I hope you understand that there were very big and powerful reasons for the Protestant Reformation, and that those reasons haven't disappeared or weakened over the ensuing centuries.

Are you sure? I understand that ‘there were very big and powerful reasons for the Protestant Reformation’. I wholeheartedly agree. However, the second part of your statement; ‘and that those reasons haven’t disappeared or weakened over the ensuing centuries’; I have to say I really disagree. If you look into history, in particular Catholic history, I think you will find that over the past five hundred years the Church has changed considerably. I think the majority of Martin Luther’s Ninety-Five Thesis has been adopted into the church. Do some research. Review, in particular, the long delayed, Council of Trent (1545-1563); the house-cleaning of the church by Pope Paul IV from 1555 to 1559; and then of course the recent Second Vatican Council. You can find much of this information on the Vatican website and on honest, scholarly Christian websites.

I deeply regret the divisions in Christianity, and with millions of others I frequently pray that we may become united. I also hope you understand that Evangelical Christians can be just as uncomfortable with Roman Catholics as you have apparently been here. I've also noticed that Roman Catholics can be very defensive against Protestantism, and defend their Roman Catholic denomination as if it were not a denomination at all, but THE Christian Church, and speak of Evangelicals as if they were not completely or fully Christian.

The Catechism refers to Protestants as ‘our parted brethren’; as such, a practicing Catholic must view (and treat) all Christians, not just Catholic Christians, as our brothers and as members of the body of Christ.
Though on a side note, I am not sure that the Catholic Church in her fullness can be considered as just another denomination. But, I am not a religious scholar so I could be wrong.

It all stems from the same question that the Corinthian Jailer asked of the Apostle Paul, "What must I do to be saved?" I wish that we could all simply answer what the Apostle Paul answered, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." But we don't, do we? We add a multitude of other things that we think one must do to be saved, and that's where we complicate Christianity and cause divisions in it.

This is beautiful! May I post this part of your response on the home page of our group Welcome Catholic Christians?

For example, Mother Teresa said that she did not know if she had been good enough to go to Heaven when she died. I reply, Oh dear, where did this go wrong?

It does seem crazy to think of Mother Teresa questioning her own goodness however, as Catholic Christians we do not presume on God’s saving Grace. We certainly hope and pray that we will go to Heaven when we die but we do not presume our salvation is all wrapped up. When we get to Heaven we know we are saved before then…only God knows!

In One with you in Him!

Sharon.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 17, 2010 at 12:54pm

I will use part of a response I gave in a previous discussion. I hope you do not mind. I got an 80% on the test :)

You said:
I know that many Christians would not be able to answer even basic questions about the Biblical-based teaching and practice of the Holy Catholic Church.

The quiz has only 4 questions that deal with biblical based teachings and practices of the Catholic Church. Questions 1, 2, 14 and 22 deal with teachings and practices of the Catholic Church. Question 12, 39, and 40 deal with questions about the Apocrypha books included in the Catholic bible. Those books have historical value but are not believe to be God breath/inspired.

Out of 40 questions only 4 dealt with teachings and practices by the Catholic church which are not even grounded in biblical teachings. The Rest is just a bible quiz.

1 – There is not one single verse teaching that the church of Christ needs a Pope or asking the church to have a Pope. Only one mediator between man and God, His name is Jesus. According to Catholicism the Pope has equal authority as the bible. That is simply blasphemy. A fallible man dares equal himself to God.

2- No need for Rosaries. Not one verse backing it up. Instead we find this in scripture:
Matthew 6
7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

The term Apocrypha is used with various meanings, including "hidden", "esoteric", "spurious", "of questionable authenticity", and "Christian texts that are not canonical".

The word is originally Greek (ἀπόκρυφα) and means "those having been hidden away". Specifically, ἀπόκρυφα is the neuter plural of ἀπόκρυφος, a participle derived from the verb ἀποκρύπτω [infinitive: ἀποκρύπτειν], "to hide something away."[1]
The general term is usually applied to the books that the Christian Church considered useful but not divinely inspired. As such, it is misleading to refer to the Gospel according to the Hebrews or Gnostic writings as apocryphal, because they would not be classified in the same category by orthodox believers. Non-canonical books are texts of uncertain authenticity, or writings where the work is seriously questioned. Given that different denominations have different beliefs about what constitutes canonical scripture, there are several versions of the apocrypha. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha

Is our responsibility to fellowship among those that practice sound doctrine. It is important, extremely important where we fellowship. Among the decisions in our life, the decision of where we worship is among the top of the list. To me is equally important as to who you marry.

The Catholic Church, especially here in America, has changed for the better within the last 20 years, but they still hold to so many erroneous doctrines. I really think and know is our responsibility to fellowship in places that aligned to scripture better.

I know there are other Catholics here and that this seems very judgmental and insensitive to say, but my dear sister we are dealing with the most important issue of our lives and I would not love you if I was not to speak the truth. I am not into church bashing, but I am into edifying one another.

Do what Luther, Huss and others did. Those are just two great men of God that were excommunicated for going against some of the erroneous doctrines the Catholic Church still holds today. What they did was left religion aside and decided to worship God according to what they saw in scripture being taught. That is what you must do.

Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Start asking why the doctrines that are practices in the church are practice.

Where does it state in Scripture that Peter was the first Pope?

What is the meaning of infant baptism? We have a biblical command to be baptized once we have been born again. No teaching in scripture that babies need to baptize, so if they die their souls do not go to Limbo.

Where do we find Limbo in the scriptures?
Where do we find Purgatory in the scriptures?

Why ask Mary to pray for us as an intercessor or any other saint that is not alive?
Please give me ONE verse where we are to pray to dead saints for mediation.

Mary had other kids as clearly taught in Scripture.

Why do they believe that the bread and the wine at the moment of the sacrament change to the actual body and blood of Christ?

Why do they teach that justification is by faith and works?

Why should priests not marry? Just to mention a few.

Be like a Berean:

Acts 17:11 (New International Version)
11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 17, 2010 at 5:52pm

Sharon,

I must say the following in conclusion. The Catholic Church has done great things for the kingdom of God throughout history and I am a firm believer that there are saved Catholics as there are saved Protestants. However do to the abundance of false doctrines in the Catholic Church I do not believe it to be conducive for Christian growth.

I believe that some of the practices that are not biblically taught by the Catholic Church had in their genesis good intentions, but being that they are man implemented, they were easy to corrupt.

For instance - baptizing a baby as a sign of dedication of that baby to the Lord is fine with me. Like we Protestants present the baby before the church, at which time the parents make a public confession to raise the child in Godly ways, but to create Limbo and teach that baptism keep a baby from going there is not right.

I read this comment on Building a sure Foundation For Christian Grow, by R. Evan-Gombach. The entire comment would be excellent if it was not for the portion I am including here. His comment for the most was right on.

"You who argue doctrine are paralized and have put yourselves in a position where it is impossible to grow up any further into the fulness of Christ in which we are called. If you simply ask the Lord to crucify to "divisions" He will most assuredly do it. Then you will be freed from the bonds of satan and released to be able to fellowship in the Spirit with Christians of all camps, regardless of their doctrines or creeds. Anyone whom the Lord receives I have to receive as well. I don't have to agree with their doctrine, but I have to receive them as a child of God in Christ. That is if Christ is in them."

Very good comment for the exception of: "You who argue doctrine are paralized and have put yourselves in a position where it is impossible to grow up any further into the fulness of Christ in which we are called."

Jesus and Paul argue doctrine and were enriched by it and enriched their listeners as well.

Again: Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Jude 1:3 (New King James Version)
Contend for the Faith
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Do I run away from fellowshipping with Catholics, nope? Do I consider a born again Catholic to be saved, of course? Do I encourage them to remain in a church plague with false doctrines, never? Unless God is definitely telling them to.

Lord Bless you sister.

Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on June 2, 2010 at 11:34pm

David,

Again, I am so sorry to have taken so long in getting back with you. We have been crazy busy these last few weeks but, now that school is ending I (hopefully) will have more time for this forum.

You know the drill: Bold is your words and my reply is in regular type.


I got an 80% on the test :)

I knew you would do well. Anyone who knows their Bible should do very well, indeed. And yet as Catholic Christians we are constantly upbraided about our “unbiblical beliefs” but, as you stated : Out of 40 questions only 4 dealt with teachings and practices by the Catholic church which are not even grounded in biblical teachings. The Rest is just a bible quiz.


1 – There is not one single verse teaching that the church of Christ needs a Pope or asking the church to have a Pope. Only one mediator between man and God, His name is Jesus. According to Catholicism the Pope has equal authority as the bible. That is simply blasphemy. A fallible man dares equal himself to God.

Wowa! Slow down there! Where do you get “According to Catholicism the Pope has equal authority as the bible.” According to Catholicism?! Really?! I have the Catechism of the Catholic Church right in front of me and I can’t find that belief anywhere! Are you sure this is a Catholic belief? Or, is it rather what you have heard or read about a Catholic belief?

"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is of course, quite a different thing."
----Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen


2- No need for Rosaries. Not one verse backing it up. Instead we find this in scripture:
Matthew 6
7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.


You are right. Vain repetition of the Rosary is meaningless. To really pray the Rosary we meditate on each Mystery. The Rosary is a meditation. With each bead, with each prayer, with each Mystery, we pray, we meditate upon, the Gospel.

To pray the Rosary is to Pray the Gospel. Fr. Frank Corapi.

The term Apocrypha is used with various meanings, including "hidden", "esoteric", "spurious", "of questionable authenticity", and "Christian texts that are not canonical".
The word is originally Greek (ἀπόκρυφα) and means "those having been hidden away". Specifically, ἀπόκρυφα is the neuter plural of ἀπόκρυφος, a participle derived from the verb ἀποκρύπτω [infinitive: ἀποκρύπτειν], "to hide something away."[1]
The general term is usually applied to the books that the Christian Church considered useful but not divinely inspired. As such, it is misleading to refer to the Gospel according to the Hebrews or Gnostic writings as apocryphal, because they would not be classified in the same category by orthodox believers. Non-canonical books are texts of uncertain authenticity, or writings where the work is seriously questioned. Given that different denominations have different beliefs about what constitutes canonical scripture, there are several versions of the apocrypha. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha

You totally lost me here. Sorry. Is this a question? an answer? what?


Is our responsibility to fellowship among those that practice sound doctrine. It is important, extremely important where we fellowship. Among the decisions in our life, the decision of where we worship is among the top of the list. To me is equally important as to who you marry.

Great! I support your strong beliefs and convictions!

The Catholic Church, especially here in America, has changed for the better within the last 20 years, but they still hold to so many erroneous doctrines. I really think and know is our responsibility to fellowship in places that aligned to scripture better.

Thank you for sharing your opinion but you have yet to show anything that is out of alignment with the Sacred Scriptures.

I know there are other Catholics here and that this seems very judgmental and insensitive to say, but my dear sister we are dealing with the most important issue of our lives and I would not love you if I was not to speak the truth. I am not into church bashing, but I am into edifying one another.

There aren't too many other Catholics here. Catholics make up the largest percentage of Christians on the face of the earth and yet here, on All About God. net, there are only a small percentage of Catholics who are made to feel welcome. :(

Here are a few posts (names omitted):

• A pedophile on one side of nearly every confessional box does not, in my opinion, give credibility as facts in-evidence relative to outcome of fruit off other than the bad tree.
• Am I anti the Roman Catholic system....? You bet!
• I came out of the Catholic Church 30 years and I say it is a CULT
• I firmly believe that the overspreading of abominations that prophet Daniel said was coming is the museum at the Vatican
• From My standpoint Anderson the Roman Catholic is all lies.
• an apostate man made religious organization called the Roman catholic church better known by most as the great whore of Babylon
• I know in my heart The Catholics are being deceived by Satan,
• The Catholic Church was founded on lies and deceit.

Do what Luther, Huss and others did. Those are just two great men of God that were excommunicated for going against some of the erroneous doctrines the Catholic Church still holds today.

Could you please list ‘the erroneous doctrines’ that Luther and Huss rejected and that the Catholic Church still holds today?

What they did was left religion aside and decided to worship God according to what they saw in scripture being taught. That is what you must do.

This is certainly what I strive to do.


Where does it state in Scripture that Peter was the first Pope?

It doesn’t. It says that Peter was the rock upon which Jesus would build His church. (Matt. 16:18-19; Luke 22:31-32; John 21:15-17)

What is the meaning of infant baptism? We have a biblical command to be baptized once we have been born again. No teaching in scripture that babies need to baptize, so if they die their souls do not go to Limbo.

The meaning of infant Baptism together with the sacraments of Penance, Holy Eucharist, and Confirmation form the initiation rites of the (Latin or Western) Catholic Church. What you would call ‘being saved’ we would call Baptism, Penance, Holy Eucharist, and Confirmation. A person’s Baptism is brought to fulfillment, (one hopes), with the completion of these four sacraments. In the Eastern or Orthodox church these sacraments are performed on the same day while the Western or Latin church can either spread them out over a number of years, or they can be given all at once depending on the age of the person and the circumstances of the time.

Where do we find Limbo in the scriptures?

We don’t. We also don’t find it in the Catechism, either. Limbo is not an official church teaching.

Where do we find Purgatory in the scriptures?

There are several passages in the New Testament that point to a process of purification after death. Thus, Jesus Christ declares (Matthew 12:32): "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come." According to St. Isidore of Seville (Deord. creatur., c. xiv, n. 6) these words prove that in the next life "some sins will be forgiven and purged away by a certain purifying fire." St. Augustine also argues "that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other [sinners] who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come" (De Civ. Dei, XXI, xxiv). The same interpretation is given by Gregory the Great (Dial., IV, xxxix); St. Bede (commentary on this text); St. Bernard (Sermo lxvi in Cantic., n. 11) and other eminent theological writers.
A further argument is supplied by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15:
"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."
While this passage presents considerable difficulty, it is regarded by many of the Fathers and theologians as evidence for the existence of an intermediate state in which the dross of lighter transgressions will be burnt away, and the soul thus purified will be saved.
This is copied from Purgatory - - is at http://mb-soft.com/believe/txo/purgat.htm


Why ask Mary to pray for us as an intercessor or any other saint that is not alive?
Please give me ONE verse where we are to pray to dead saints for mediation.

Mary and the Saints are very much alive! “For they are all alive to Him.”

Martha: Susan, my friend; will you please pray for me?
Susan Oh, I'm sorry, I can't. It would make Jesus jealous. After all, He only wants us to pray to Him. Plus I really can't worship you like that because we should only worship God.

Mary had other kids as clearly taught in Scripture.

We have already been over this one. But just to refresh your memory please review;
• John 19:25; Mark 15:47; and Matthew 27:56: Mary wife of Cleophas and "sister" of the Virgin Mary (Jn 19:25) is the mother of James and Joset (Mk 15:47; Mt 27:56) who are called the "brothers of Jesus" (Mk 6:3).

• Acts 1:12-15 ... apostles, Mary, "some women" and Jesus' "brothers" number about 120. That is a lot of "brothers."
• Gen 14:14 ... Lot, Abraham's nephew (Gen 11:26-28), described as Abraham's brother (KJV).

• Gen 29:15 ... Laban, Jacob's uncle, calls Jacob his "brother" (KJV).

• John 19:26-27 ... Jesus gives care of Mary to John, not one of his "brothers."



Why do they believe that the bread and the wine at the moment of the sacrament change to the actual body and blood of Christ?

Because that is the reality of the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

Why do they teach that justification is by faith and works?

They don’t. Justification, as you call it, is a Grace; a free gift of God.

Why should priests not marry? Just to mention a few.

Because they made a vow of celibacy. If a man becomes a priest he takes a solemn vow of celibacy, and therefore priests should not marry because, of their own free-will and after years and years of deliberation, they have sworn a vow which includes celibacy and they should perform that which they have freely vowed.
Why should married men not commit adultery? Because they made a solemn vow of marital fidelity.
If a man makes a vow he should perform that which he has vowed, agreed?
If a man becomes a priest he takes a solemn vow to poverty, obedience, and celibacy, and therefore he should not marry because he has sworn himself to celibacy. (Though I guess technically priests could marry and remain celibate. Though that would be hard to pull off.)

Be like a Berean: Acts 17:11 (New International Version) 11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

OK.

I must say the following in conclusion. The Catholic Church has done great things for the kingdom of God throughout history and I am a firm believer that there are saved Catholics as there are saved Protestants.

Agreed.

However do to the abundance of false doctrines in the Catholic Church I do not believe it to be conducive for Christian growth.

Could you show me ‘the abundance of false doctrines in the Catholic Church’? I don’t see conclusive evidence (i.e.; Scriptural evidence) for anywhere near an ‘abundance’ of false doctrines.


I believe that some of the practices that are not biblically taught by the Catholic Church had in their genesis good intentions, but being that they are man implemented, they were easy to corrupt.

Man is fallible.

For instance - baptizing a baby as a sign of dedication of that baby to the Lord is fine with me. Like we Protestants present the baby before the church, at which time the parents make a public confession to raise the child in Godly ways, but to create Limbo and teach that baptism keep a baby from going there is not right.

Agreed.

I read this comment on Building a sure Foundation For Christian Grow, by R. Evan-Gombach. The entire comment would be excellent if it was not for the portion I am including here. His comment for the most was right on.

"You who argue doctrine are paralyzed and have put yourselves in a position where it is impossible to grow up any further into the fullness of Christ in which we are called. If you simply ask the Lord to crucify to "divisions" He will most assuredly do it. Then you will be freed from the bonds of satan and released to be able to fellowship in the Spirit with Christians of all camps, regardless of their doctrines or creeds. Anyone whom the Lord receives I have to receive as well. I don't have to agree with their doctrine, but I have to receive them as a child of God in Christ. That is if Christ is in them."

Very good comment for the exception of: "You who argue doctrine are paralyzed and have put yourselves in a position where it is impossible to grow up any further into the fullness of Christ in which we are called."

Jesus and Paul argue doctrine and were enriched by it and enriched their listeners as well.

But which of us is on par with Jesus and Paul?

Again: Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Jude 1:3 (New King James Version)
Contend for the Faith
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Amen.

Do I run away from fellowshipping with Catholics, nope. Do I consider a born again Catholic to be saved, of course!

And again I say, Amen!

Do I encourage them to remain in a church plague with false doctrines, never? Unless God is definitely telling them to.

Why would God definitely tell His beloved children ‘to remain in a church plague with false doctrines’? That doesn’t make any sense.

Lord Bless you sister.

And may the Lord Bless you my brother in Christ!

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on June 3, 2010 at 3:30am

The Lord bless you Sharon,

I thank you for your response.

Wowa! Slow down there! Where do you get “According to Catholicism the Pope has equal authority as the bible.” According to Catholicism?! Really?! I have the Catechism of the Catholic Church right in front of me and I can’t find that belief anywhere! Are you sure this is a Catholic belief? Or, is it rather what you have heard or read about a Catholic belief?


This is from one of my favorite web sites
: http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/roman-catholicism/why-it-ne...

The Protestant Church cites the Bible alone as the source of doctrinal knowledge. The Catholic church, on the other hand, cites the Bible and Tradition. Please consider the following:

". . .the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."1

1. Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 82.

[To the Catholic church Sharon, the Papal traditions are equeally authoritative as scripture.]

Apparently, it is Tradition that is the source of doctrines which are clearly not taught in the Bible, but which the Catholic Church still says are implicit within its text and elucidated through Apostolic Tradition. Some of them are as follows: The Mass, Penance, Veneration of Mary, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Priesthood, the Confessional, the Rosary, Venial and Mortal Sins, and statues in the Church. The issue is whether or not these teachings of the Roman Catholic Church are credible. Do they accurately represent Christianity? Can they be substantiated with the Bible? Do they contradict the Bible?

This site attempts to examine the doctrines of Rome and compare them with the Bible to see if they are supported or contradicted by God's Word. We know that all truth in God's Christian Church comes from Him, through the Holy Spirit. It will not, therefore, be contradictory. Let us see what God's written word says and compare it to the Unwritten Word which is the Roman Catholic Church's term for Tradition.

Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error[1] when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidelium, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible will be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state either that the Pope cannot sin in his own personal life or that he is necessarily free of error, even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the specific contexts in which the dogma applies.
This doctrine was defined dogmatically in the First Vatican Council of 1870.

According to Catholic theology, there are several concepts important to the understanding of infallible, divine revelation: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Sacred Magisterium. The infallible teachings of the Pope are part of the Sacred Magisterium, which also consists of ecumenical councils and the "ordinary and universal magisterium". In Catholic theology, papal infallibility is one of the channels of the infallibility of the Church. The infallible teachings of the Pope must be based on, or at least not contradict, Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture. Papal infallibility does not signify that the Pope is impeccable, i.e.., that he is specially exempt from liability to sin.

In practice, popes seldom use their power of infallibility, but rely on the notion that the Church allows the office of the pope to be the ruling agent in deciding what will be accepted as formal beliefs in the Church.[2] Since the solemn declaration of Papal Infallibility by Vatican I on July 18, 1870, this power has been used only once ex cathedra: in 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as being an article of faith for Roman Catholics. Prior to the solemn definition of 1870, Pope Pius IX, with the support of the overwhelming majority of Roman Catholic bishops, had proclaimed the Immaculate Conception of Mary an ex cathedra dogma in December 1854.



[The Catholic Church’s teaching on papal infallibility is one which is at times misunderstood, I grant you that as truth. Papal "infallibility" is confused with "impeccability." The Pope can sin, we know that and we understand that saying that the pope is infallible does not mean he does not sin or error apart from tradition or doctrine, but there lies the problem. The pope does err in doctrine and also in establishing traditions as if they were of the same authority as scripture.]

Blessings

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on June 3, 2010 at 5:01pm

1. The Rosary is a meditation. With each bead, with each prayer, with each Mystery, we pray, we meditate upon, the Gospel.

If that was true, the Rosary would not offend the Gospel by praying to someone that is no longer alive on earth. The dead no nothing about what happens on earth.

Holy Mary mother of God
Pray for us sinners
Now and at the hour of our death Amen.

Give me one verse Sharon, one (1) verse, where it shows that we can pray to dead saints, Yes they are alive in Christ, but scripture does not teach us anywhere to ask anyone that is no longer on earth to pray for us. You will not find such a verse because is not in the bible. They know nothing of what happens on earth. Mary is not our mediator nor is she flying around the earth. She is where all the other saints await their resurrected body. She gave birth to Jesus (the God man) not God the Father. As if God the father had a beginning. So calling her mother of God, I believe must be very offensive to God. Jesus existed before His incarnation. Mother of Jesus – Yes! Mother of God – not possible. Yes! Jesus is God, but not God the father, but God the son.

Ecclesiastes 9
5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.

2. You totally lost me here. Sorry. Is this a question? an answer? what?

It is proof that the Apocrypha books are not God breath. God inspired. Only the Roman Catholic Church believes they are.

3.Thank you for sharing your opinion but you have yet to show anything that is out of alignment with the Sacred Scriptures.

Is not my opinion I am sharing. Those are facts I can prove. I have shown you many things that you have been unable to respond to or have not gotten around to yet. Sharon I do not think you know your own faith as much as you may think you do. Check this out, this is our number one concern with the Roman Catholic Church.

Permalink Reply by Imperator on May 18, 2010 at 5:25am

My dear sister Theresa,

I am a Catholic myself and like you, I too, was hurt by the anti-Catholic sentiments running through AAG. Then I took a step back and looked at the Catholic church more closely and this is what I found. You may not like the answers.

1. Pope - Irrelevant as the church do not need a leader or a ruling figure. The position has been greatly abused in the Middle Ages when popes were involved in murder, heresy and devil worship. You will probably argue that they are a continuation from the apostle Peter and quote what Jesus said to Peter ' you are the rock and I will build my church' or something along those lines.

2. Mary - Was a blessed lady who was chosen to be the vessel who delivered to the world Immanuel. God does not have a mother and in the bible Jesus refers to Mary simply as 'woman'. Mary was a human being just like you and me and do not have any intercessary powers to represent us to God.

3. Idolotary - In ALL catholic churches there are statues of Jesus, Mary,. Joseph and the saints and almost ALL Catholics stand infront of these idols and pray to them. God hates idolotary with a passion.

4. The Vatican Bank - The richest bank in the world. Why does a church need money? What do they do with these billions that they make each year? A percent of Catholic church collections are sent to the Vatican church in Rome.

5. St. Peter's Church, Rome - Is like a tourist attraction. Thousands if not millions of people visit the church and the Vatican Square every year, and around the square merchants are selling rosaries, figurines, crosses and every kind of paraphenalia, again making a tidy sum.

6. Praying the Rosary -
Hail Mary full of grace
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus

I have no problems with the above, however, the following does trouble me a bit.

Holy Mary mother of God
Pray for us sinners
Now and at the hour of our death Amen.

Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on June 3, 2010 at 1:00am

My dear sister Theresa,

I am a Catholic myself and like you, I too, was hurt by the anti-Catholic sentiments running through AAG. Then I took a step back and looked at the Catholic church more closely and this is what I found. You may not like the answers.

1. Pope - Irrelevant as the church do not need a leader or a ruling figure. The position has been greatly abused in the Middle Ages when popes were involved in murder, heresy and devil worship. You will probably argue that they are a continuation from the apostle Peter and quote what Jesus said to Peter ' you are the rock and I will build my church' or something along those lines.

So, your opinion is that the Pope is ‘irrelevant as the church does not need a leader or a ruling figure’. Is that correct? If so I honor your opinion about what the church needs but it is just that your opinion and over a billion people are of a differing opinion.

2. Mary - Was a blessed lady who was chosen to be the vessel who delivered to the world Immanuel. God does not have a mother and in the bible Jesus refers to Mary simply as 'woman'. Mary was a human being just like you and me and do not have any intercessary powers to represent us to God.

Again, I appreciate your opinion. I however believe Mary to be the Mother of God since Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God.
I am not sure what ‘intercessory powers to represent us to God’ means exactly. Could you be more exact? Are trying to state that Mary would usurp her Son’s position as the only mediator between man and God? I don’t believe Mary would do such a thing, do you?

3. Idolotary - In ALL catholic churches there are statues of Jesus, Mary,. Joseph and the saints and almost ALL Catholics stand infront of these idols and pray to them. God hates idolotary with a passion.

Catholic Christians do not pray to idols.

4. The Vatican Bank - The richest bank in the world.
The richest bank in the world?! Really?! I thought the World Bank was the richest bank in the world but I was wrong:( I looked it up the world's richest bank is...Deutsche Bank AG, Frankfurt am Main, Germany
That is according to Eagle Traders. com.




Why does a church need money?

What do they do with these billions that they make each year? A percent of Catholic church collections are sent to the Vatican church in Rome.

The Catholic Church, in particular the Western Catholic Church, is the largest social service provider in the world. Bar none. No other organization even comes close.


5. St. Peter's Church, Rome - Is like a tourist attraction. Thousands if not millions of people visit the church and the Vatican Square every year, and around the square merchants are selling rosaries, figurines, crosses and every kind of paraphenalia, again making a tidy sum.

There are merchants selling rosaries, figurines, crosses, and every kind of paraphernalia inside the Vatican? Really? Where did you get that information?

6. Praying the Rosary -
Hail Mary full of grace
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus

I have no problems with the above, however, the following does trouble me a bit.

Holy Mary mother of God
Pray for us sinners
Now and at the hour of our death Amen.

Why does that trouble you? Have you never prayed for someone that you love? Mary loves us! What is troubling about asking the Mother of God to pray for us?


Thank you for taking the time to talk with me concerning our Christian faith.

May peace be with you my brother!

Permalink Reply by Carla on May 18, 2010 at 11:14am

Dear Sharon,

I am sorry that you have been hurt by contempt twoards the Catholic beliefs. I believe that the Catholic Church does a great disservice to Christianity... The Catholic church preaches that you must be in the Catholic church to be saved.. doesn't it?

In Mark 9:38-50 Jesus is teaching the apostles about being exclusive and prideful. This is something we all must guard against. As long as a person or a demoniation is teaching to keep their focus on Christ, then they are doing God's Work. If However, they are teaching a focus other than Christ (ie: praying to Mary) then that is not the work of God.

We are taught in scripture and by the leading of the Holy Spirit to keep our eyes on Jesus...HE is the author and finisher of our faith. If we take our eyes off of Jesus and focus on other things, we are in error, and it is the responsibility of the church (Christ's body) to inform those who are in error in hopes that they will return to the way God intended. However, the Catholic Church is a rather large entity for any one person to expose as false teachings.

If at any time a person who claims to be a believer is worshipping idols, or teaching something false, should we allow it to continue? If we turned a blind eye and allowed a false teaching to continue, would we be fulfilling our responsibilities and commitment as believers?

Mar 7:1 One day some Pharisees and teachers of religious law arrived from Jerusalem to confront Jesus.

Mar 7:2 They noticed that some of Jesus' disciples failed to follow the usual Jewish ritual of hand washing before eating.

Mar 7:3 (The Jews, especially the Pharisees, do not eat until they have poured water over their cupped hands, [fn] as required by their ancient traditions.

Mar 7:4 Similarly, they eat nothing bought from the market unless they have immersed their hands in water. This is but one of many traditions they have clung to--such as their ceremony of washing cups, pitchers, and kettles. [fn])

Mar 7:5 So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, "Why don't your disciples follow our age-old customs? For they eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony."

Mar 7:6 Jesus replied, "You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said,

Mar 7:7 `These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away. Their worship is a farce, for they replace God's commands with their own man-made teachings.' [fn]

Mar 7:8 For you ignore God's specific laws and substitute your own traditions."

Mar 7:9 Then he said, "You reject God's laws in order to hold on to your own traditions.

Could these verses also apply to the Catholic teaching of having to go to a priest for forgiveness of sins? How about praying the rosary? What about praying to Mary? Infant Baptism--is that newborn really able to make a choice to live for Jesus at such a young age? How about all the statues--Idolatry? How about Pride--being a Catholic is the only way to be saved? What about praying at funerals for a person after they have died? Are these teachings of God, or teachings of man?
We must all get back to the basics of what Jesus taught. Our focus is to be on HIM!

Luk 10:27 And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."


It is my understanding that the Catholic church teaches that we can somehow be 'good enough' to earn our way into heaven. This quiz is an example of that...If you know the answers this is one way of being 'good enough'. If I am wrong in this assumption please forgive me, but I grew up in the Catholic Church, and this is what I remember of it. I was not told about God's Grace, Mercy and Forgiveness.. I never heard the gospel there that's for sure. It wasn't until years later that I heard the Gospel.. That Jesus, suffered, died and rose again... and HE intercedes for us as He now sits at the right hand of our Father in Heaven. He is the Only One who can intercede for us.

Please understand that no one is condemning Catholic Christians. I believe a Catholic can genuinely be saved...absolutely! As long as they meet God's criteria..not man-made criteria.

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Rom 10:9 [fn] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, [fn] resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [fn] resulting in salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE [fn] DISAPPOINTED."

Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
(emphasis mine)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

I am deeply saddened that the Catholic Church teaches that whoever attends church regularly, or confesses to a priest or prays to Mary... plus whatever else they may teach (things listed by others here and posted above)....These teachings can cause a false assurance of salvation.

Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on June 5, 2010 at 12:44pm

Carla,

Thank you for taking the time to converse with me about our love for Jesus Christ.

I am sorry that you have been hurt by contempt towards the Catholic beliefs. I believe that the Catholic Church does a great disservice to Christianity... The Catholic church preaches that you must be in the Catholic church to be saved.. doesn't it?

I don’t really feel qualified to expound on this doctrine of the Magisterium so, I clipped this from the EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network) website:

Concerning this doctrine the Pope of Vatican I, Pius IX, spoke on two different occasions. In an allocution (address to an audience) on December 9th, 1854 he said:
We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?
Again, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863 addressed to the Italian bishops, he said:
It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.
These statements are consistent with the understanding of the Church contained in the documents of Vatican II, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as explaining why the rigorist position of Fr. Feeney (that all must be actual members of the Catholic Church to be saved) has been condemned by the Magisterium.

In Mark 9:38-50 Jesus is teaching the apostles about being exclusive and prideful. This is something we all must guard against.

Agreed.

As long as a person or a demonization is teaching to keep their focus on Christ, then they are doing God's Work.Great! Then true practicing Catholic Christians are doing God’s Work. Amen.
There is no other way of Christian prayer than Christ. Whether our prayer is communal or personal, vocal or interior, it has access to the Father only if we pray "in the name" of Jesus... to invoke Him (Catechism 2665-2666)
The Catholic Church is clear about the centrality of Jesus.
Pope John Paul II wrote in his Message to World Youth day 2000 the following:
"The Cross, which seems to rise up from the earth, in actual fact reaches down from heaven, enfolding the universe in a divine embrace. The Cross reveals itself to be the centre, meaning and goal of all history and every human life”.
from www.catholicbridges.com

If However, they are teaching a focus other than Christ (ie: praying to Mary) then that is not the work of God.Hhhmm…what does it mean to pray? I know what I think to pray means but I would like to understand what you think ‘praying to Mary’ means. As for the Church, we pray to Mary and all the saints, to ask them to pray for us. Just as I might ask a friend to pray for me, a Catholic Christian will ask Mary to pray for them, to help bring them closer to her Son.
But why would anyone think it was wrong to pray to Mary? Mary is the Mother of God. At the very least we could all spend a few minutes in prayer to thank Mary for agreeing to bring Jesus the Christ into the world.
I've snipped a few passages from the Lumen Gentium, an official document of the Church from Vatican II. I think the document accurately makes clear Jesus' authority over heaven and earth:
60. There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, "for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all." (298) The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows his power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ. (298 1 Tim. 2, 5-6).
62. ...For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, ...The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary.
67. .. But it exhorts theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God.(23*) Following the study of Sacred Scripture, the Holy Fathers, the doctors and liturgy of the Church, ... rightly illustrate the duties and privileges of the Blessed Virgin which always look to Christ, the source of all truth, sanctity and piety.



We are taught in scripture and by the leading of the Holy Spirit to keep our eyes on Jesus...HE is the author and finisher of our faith. If we take our eyes off of Jesus and focus on other things, we are in error, and it is the responsibility of the church (Christ's body) to inform those who are in error in hopes that they will return to the way God intended.That is true.

However, the Catholic Church is a rather large entity for any one person to expose as false teachings.
If at any time a person who claims to be a believer is worshipping idols, or teaching something false, should we allow it to continue? If we turned a blind eye and allowed a false teaching to continue, would we be fulfilling our responsibilities and commitment as believers?
I support you in your desire to fulfill your responsibility and commitment as a believer.

Mar 7:1 One day some Pharisees and teachers of religious law arrived from Jerusalem to confront Jesus.

Mar 7:2 They noticed that some of Jesus' disciples failed to follow the usual Jewish ritual of hand washing before eating.

Mar 7:3 (The Jews, especially the Pharisees, do not eat until they have poured water over their cupped hands, [fn] as required by their ancient traditions.

Mar 7:4 Similarly, they eat nothing bought from the market unless they have immersed their hands in water. This is but one of many traditions they have clung to--such as their ceremony of washing cups, pitchers, and kettles. [fn])

Mar 7:5 So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, "Why don't your disciples follow our age-old customs? For they eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony."

Mar 7:6 Jesus replied, "You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said,

Mar 7:7 `These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away. Their worship is a farce, for they replace God's commands with their own man-made teachings.' [fn]

Mar 7:8 For you ignore God's specific laws and substitute your own traditions."

Mar 7:9 Then he said, "You reject God's laws in order to hold on to your own traditions.

Could these verses also apply to the Catholic teaching of having to go to a priest for forgiveness of sins?Catholics feel that the sinner sins in the material world and therefore the forgiveness must also manifest itself in the material world as well as in heaven. The only way that this can happen is through a human being - a priest. Jesus recognized that forgiveness must still be manifested in the material world after he died. This is why he commissioned the apostles to do it, and this is why Catholics believe this has continued to this day through priestly secession in obedience to Jesus' command "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven." This does not take away from Christ's role as the One True Priest, it actually empowers his role on earth. There is a great song by Evangelical Christian bock band Audio Adrenaline that says, "I want to be your hands, I want to be your feet." Catholics have no problem that Jesus has ordained some to act on his behalf in the material world. We must remember, the priest is not the one who forgives. The forgiveness comes from Jesus. Before every confession the priest calls upon Jesus to come. He is simply performing a service for Jesus. Jesus was not against the priesthood, he honored and respected it, and I believe he is inviting us to do the same.
from Catholic Bridge.com
By the way, if you do not confess to a Priest who do you confess to? If I may be so bold as to ask about your own personal walk with Christ.
How about praying the rosary?How does praying the rosary ‘reject God’s laws in order to hold on to your own traditions’? In the Rosary we pray the Gospel of Jesus Christ. How could praying the Gospel possibly be a rejection of God’s laws?
What about praying to Mary?same question.
Infant Baptism--is that newborn really able to make a choice to live for Jesus at such a young age?
When an infant is getting Baptized they, most often, have Catholic parents who agree to raise the infant in a Catholic home, to include the growing child in the Catechism (Sunday school) and in the Mass (Holy Eucharist, Confirmation). Moreover, the infant at Baptism is entrusted to the care of Godparents (one male, one female, Catholics in good standing) who promise to guide the child in their spiritual development. By the time of Confirmation the child (hopefully) will be ready to make the choice to live for Jesus.

How about all the statues--Idolatry?Nope.
How about Pride--being a Catholic is the only way to be saved?Being Catholic means being a part of the Body of Christ. All who are saved are incorporated into the unseen but very real Body of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
What about praying at funerals for a person after they have died?You have never prayed at a funeral? What do you do? Why wouldn’t you pray for a person after they have died?
In his #1 Evangelical book, The Purpose Driven Life, Rick Warren, says:
Your spiritual family is even more important than your physical family because it will last forever. Our families on the earth are wonderful gifts from God, but they are temporary and fragile, often broken by divorce, distance, growing old, and inevitably, death...our spiritual family-our relationship to other believers-will continue throughout eternity. It is a much stronger union, a more permanent bond than blood relationships. (The Purpose Driven Life, pg 118, my emphasis)

Are these teachings of God, or teachings of man?
Well, these are teachings of God as we understand His teachings.

We must all get back to the basics of what Jesus taught. Our focus is to be on HIM!The center of the Catholic faith is the Eucharist and the Eucharist is HIM.

Luk 10:27 And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."This is what I try to do.


It is my understanding that the Catholic church teaches that we can somehow be 'good enough' to earn our way into heaven. This quiz is an example of that...If you know the answers this is one way of being 'good enough'. If I am wrong in this assumption please forgive me, but I grew up in the Catholic Church, and this is what I remember of it.
There is no way to ‘earn our way’ or be ‘good enough’ to earn our way into Heaven. The Church teaches that salvation is a grace, a free gift of God though Jesus Christ His Son.

I was not told about God's Grace, Mercy and Forgiveness.. I never heard the gospel there that's for sure. It wasn't until years later that I heard the Gospel.. That Jesus, suffered, died and rose again... and HE intercedes for us as He now sits at the right hand of our Father in Heaven. He is the Only One who can intercede for us.I don’t understand that. Did you go to Mass? Confession? Holy Communion? Jesus’ suffering, death, and resurrection, the Pascal Mysteries, is at the very heart of the Mass.
Mass has two major parts : 1) Liturgy of the Word 2) Liturgy of the Eucharist
1) Liturgy of the Word: Three Bible readings. OT, Psalm, NT, and a Gospel reading. Then and a Homily which comments on those readings. If I go to Mass every day, I get a lot of Bible.
2) Liturgy of the Eucharist: Scripture, prayer, praise & worship - and then the Lord Himself appears and we come forward to meet Him and accept Him. Talk about a "Personal Relationship" with Jesus.
Other parts of the Mass include the Penitential Rite where we repent before the Lord and ask his forgiveness and mercy. (Rev. 2:5,16,21; 3:3; 16:11) The Gloria (on Sundays) which is praise to glorify God. (From Luke 2:14). Alleluia Acclamation (praise to God), prayers of intercessions - standing in the gap (Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4), and the Lord 's Prayer (Matthew 6:9)
The Catholic Mass is totally Bible centered
The Processional March of each Mass is lead by a person holding the Cross and then a person holding the Bible up high in the air. Each Mass four Bible readings in it, and the Liturgy is pulled right out of Scripture (Mat 26:26-28, Mk 14:22, Lk 22:17). This layout of the Mass has continued for over a thousand years. If I follow Church advice and go to Mass everyday, I make a beautiful journey through the Bible. By going to Mass we get a fantastic exposure to God's Word.
Of course we have to study privately and/or in groups also and the Church instructs us to do that.
brief explanation of the mass is from www.catholicbridges.com

Please understand that no one is condemning Catholic Christians. I believe a Catholic can genuinely be saved...absolutely! As long as they meet God's criteria..not man-made criteria.Thank you for your compassionate heart.

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Rom 10:9 [fn] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, [fn] resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [fn] resulting in salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE [fn] DISAPPOINTED."

Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
(emphasis mine)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
I agree with all of these scriptures and so does the Church.

I am deeply saddened that the Catholic Church teaches that whoever attends church regularly, or confesses to a priest or prays to Mary... plus whatever else they may teach (things listed by others here and posted above)....These teachings can cause a false assurance of salvation.If the Catholic Church actually taught these things that would be sad. However, the Catholic Church teaches is that Salvation comes NOT through church attendance, confession, or prayers to Mary, but, ONLY through Grace, the free gift of God the Father through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Lord Jesus, let Your prayer of unity for Christians
become a reality, in Your way
we have absolute confidence
that you can bring your people together
we give you absolute permission to move
Amen
Prayer by David MacDonald

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on June 5, 2010 at 1:27pm

Sharon,

I don't wish to enter into this discussion, even though I have read the whole thread. I simply want to commend you. You show a solid knowledge of what you are defending and are a capable apologist for your faith. I also commend you on your ability to deal with this situation and not get bent out of shape and resort to personal attacks when people disagree with you. You show strong character and patience.

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on June 7, 2010 at 4:55pm

Linda,

I am:) Thank you!


Love in Him,

Sharon.

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