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Could Jesus have sinned when tempted and what is the Origin of Sin?
You guys probably already touched on this one in the past, but I could not find it, so here is an old question that is fun to discuss.
I have my stance and will tell you soon what that is, but I am interested in hearing your biblical opinions first.
How did sin come about? How was sin created?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Thanks for sharing Alan but the Qur'an is not the inspired word of God, hence unreliable, specially when it contradicts the bible.But you know this hahaha
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Rory,
God is not the author of evil. If God created evil, then God would be both good and evil. And if God were both good and evil, there would be no hope for the ultimate triumph of good, which the Bible promises. If God were himself evil, he could not, therefore, triumph over evil, so good could not triumph. If God were the source of evil, he would have to be evil himself. And if He were evil himself, then there could be no basis for salvation, for God could not save us from evil if evil was in His nature. So the Biblical revelation of the original goodness of creation protects the goodness of God. And it makes the source of evil outside of God. Only if the source of evil is outside of God can God conquer evil and can God save sinners from evil. And just as a footnote to that; if God used any kind of evolution to create, evolution is dependent on decay and death, all effects or reflections of evil. So if God used any kind of evolution to create, then God authored evil; He created decay and He created death. And if God used any form of evolution, then His creation was not all good; it was not perfect when he created it, and it is what it is now because of decay and death, which He must have used in his creation, which are evidences of evil, then God must himself be evil. But God is not evil. God is all good and only good.
The question then is: Where did evil come from? And the answer to that is that we only know what we know from the Bible. It is really useless to speculate about that.
(But there are plenty of beliefs out there) You either believe that God isn't God; there's just a cosmic power out there; you believe that God doesn't exist at all, and it's all just nobody times nothing equals everything. Or you believe that suffering, sin and death don't really exist; they're just an illusion. Or you believe that God so transcends all of that stuff that he's unaffected by it and, therefore, you protect him from responsibility for evil. Or you believe that God is in process, and that's the new and popular view; that God really has good desires, but he really is not sovereign enough to get where he wants to get as soon as he would like to get there. One other view you can throw in the mix is that just plain old God made evil.
…None of those is true; none of them.
God is not responsible for evil. His creatures are. God is not responsible for evil. His creatures are. Everything -- listen to this carefully -- that God created was "very" what? "Good." Everything. This is affirmed throughout the scripture. In Habakkuk Chapter 1: "God is of purer eyes than to" approve evil or "behold evil. He cannot look on wickedness." Habakkuk Chapter 1, Verse 13. 1st Corinthians 14:33 says: "God is not the author of confusion." Confusion is a product of sin. 1st John 1:5 says: "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." James 1:13 says: "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts He any man." 1st John 2:16 says: "All that is in the world," all evil categorically, "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, is not of the Father." Psalm 5:4: "You are not a God who has pleasure in wickedness; neither will evil dwell with You." Psalm 5:4. In fact, on a positive note, Isaiah 6, the antiphonal cry of the angels was that God was "Holy, holy, holy." We see a glimpse of that, of course, when Jesus came into the world; God in human flesh. He was holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners. God is not evil. God does not do evil. He cannot be tempted to do evil. He never tempts anybody else to do evil. God is not responsible for evil.
The source of evil, the source of sin, is outside God. When God created angels and God created humans, he gave them intelligence. He gave them reason, and he gave them choice. And there is a sequence. I put those words in that order for a purpose. Intelligence gave them the ability to understand things. Reason gave them the ability to process that understanding toward behavior. And choice gave them the freedom to determine that behavior. Intelligence, reason, and choice. Bottom line: With what they knew, and with the ability they had to process that information, they would be brought to a choice. And whether angels or men, they would have the choice either to obey God or not to obey God.
Listen to this: To disobey God was to initiate evil. Evil is not the presence of something. Evil is the absence of righteousness. You can't create evil, because evil doesn't exist as a created entity. It doesn't exist as a created reality. Evil is a negative. Evil is the absence of perfection. It's the absence of holiness. It's the absence of goodness. It's the absence of righteousness. Evil became a reality only when creatures chose to disobey. Evil came into existence initially then in the fall of angels. And then next, in the fall of Adam and Eve.
The Origin of Evil(Genesis 3:1-7)
Copyright 2000 by John F. MacArthur, Jr. All rights reserved.
The article is very long and I only give a short portion of it to answer the question bro Rory asked.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-235.htm
There is much more to say but this should suffice for now. Love you all :)
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Permalink Reply by Rory Roybal on
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Carla and Dave,
Thanks, I think you both gave very good answers, and Dave isn't it great how you successfully answered your own question, haha? Good job. My thoughts are consistent I think, although I speculate a little ok ...?
Christ referred to Satan as the father of lies, and a murderer from the very beginning (John 8:44).
Root evils of pride and unbelief
Probably a relatively brief time after creation of the universe, angels, and man, and while all was yet at peace, an extremely wise, talented and beautiful angel named Lucifer (meaning “Son of the Morning”) was exalted and tempted within himself by pride and envy, desired to be as God, and thereby corrupted himself. Lucifer may not have believed God’s claim to be the Creator, since he did not witness the event, and may have imagined he could truly make himself equal with God.
The father of evil
Over a dozen areas of the New Testament, including Christ's statements, identify Satan as the original source of evil (Mat. 13:37-43, 25:41, John 8:40-44, Acts 10:38, 13:10, 26:18, Rom. 16:20, I Tim. 5:15, II Tim. 2:26, Heb. 2:14-15, James 3:13-15, I John 3:7-8, Rev. 12:9).
Lucifer, the “anointed cherub", was created with light and spiritual life, and lived in a sinless environment, completely free from external temptation and evil. Even though he was an extremely wise, talented and beautiful creation of God, this wasn’t enough for him. He wasn’t content with who he was created to be, and wanted to be as God (Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer chose darkness and spiritual death of his own free will, and God never desired or forced pride or ambition upon him. Although God created Lucifer "perfect", he was able to turn to sin completely of his own accord (Ezek. 28:12-19).
Lucifer was rebuked for his rebellion and slanderous lie to be as God, the only self-existent Creator, but Lucifer was unrepentant, and further resolved to corrupt God’s universe and mankind that it was prepared for. Lucifer thus became the source of all evil, so God changed his name to Satan, the great adversary or opposer, and the Devil, the slanderer and divider (one who casts either himself or something between two in order to separate them, a slanderer without cause).
Love in Christ,
Rory
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Very cool - i dig it. I am in agreement with you speculation, hey Rory there is a movie in there somewhere. An animated (the real cool animations) film. HUh?
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hey bro....it's already been done...
Cosmic Conflict, The Origin of Evil.
http://cosmicconflict.com/
I own it.. it's worth watching!
Blessings, Carla
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Whoa, amazing someone did this!
Once one eliminates all the scoffers and skeptics, the comments look quite positive.
I hadn't heard of the ministry 'Amazing Facts' that produced it, but it appears sound on the surface from the little I've read on their website hm?
Blessings,
Rory
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Hi Rory,
I've watched it a couple times a few months ago, and nothing went on 'high alert' with me... I will watch it again. It's very short, less than 40minutes!
.....will let you know! :)
Blessings, Carla
(ps--there will always be scoffers and skeptics) :(
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Permalink Reply by Stacey Osana Arquines on
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In my opinion Jesus could have sinned since he was born as a human being in the flesh as a man on Earth, but because God’s plan for his life was to not sin and to be the way for other human beings to follow and set the example he resisted the temptation to sin. Jesus is our role model, and how blinding to the eye it is to see a role model who does not act in the truth, speak of the truth, and live the life. Jesus had a very important role for us human beings on Earth. His purpose was not to sin, but rather to die for sin.
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus enters a world of sin of human knowledge and he proves the how fallacious that the laws upheld by the Pharisees and the scribes were.
Jesus started out just like us born and without his Godly powers. We grow up and begin to fill our heads with stuff in this worldly place and get farther from God however for Jesus we often times see him as a child who actively participates asking questions hence the story of him as a child sitting with teachers…
Luke 2:39-52
[39] When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth. [40] And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.
[41] Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. [42] When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. [43] After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. [44] Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. [45] When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. [46] After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. [47] Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. [48] When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
[49] "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" [50] But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
What does he mean by in my Father’s house? What is Jesus doing to exemplify what all of us should be doing from the moment we are born? This is why I believe it is important for parents to raise their children according to what is said in the word of God. Don’t let children watch provocative things don’t let them dress sensually show them how to honor and respect and to pray to our Lord God Almighty. Let your actions be the example and your words speak the truth and the only truth from the word of God.
In my opinion the origin of sin begins the very moment Eve bites into the apple. She dies not physically but spiritually and she become like God realizing everything and having the knowledge and responsibility like God only problem is once someone is like God without being anointed many struggles come and stress rises. Once someone is in the mindset that is God-like it becomes difficult to handle because we are not meant for the power of God. Only he has the ultimate power, God can choose whoever he wants. God can command and judge as he likes. He is the Almighty.
This is the origin of sin and included are laws that mark what sin can be and sinning goes further into thoughts and intentions.
Essentially any act that is unrighteous, not loving, not kind, anything that is the opposite of love, and brings harm is a sin.
Follow the Golden Rule
Matthew 7: 12
“Do to others whatever you would have them do to you. This is the law and the prophets.”
Follow the New Commandment
John 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another”
Praise God always Pray to the Father almighty and love him and love one another. Love Jesus Christ our Savior and Love the Holy spirit for inspiring us to do things without even realizing he was there the whole time. Holy Holy Holy Trinity. Just love!
This is my opinion and I do not mean to offend anyone ask me questions and correct me if I am wrong or better yet challenge me in a kind way
---- Jesus exemplified the way to live a life against sin. His life shows us how he learned about God the father Almighty and even as a child he stayed in his Father’s house participating as an active child listening diligently learning about his Father. That is what we as Children of God have to do to get closer to our Father. We need to hear the word we need to learn the word to understand the way our Father wants this world to be to learn. God is Good. ( Look even the word Good only needs an “O” to be taken out of it to say God)
God is all about good even while he was creating Earth. In the Book of Genesis, they mention how much good God saw in his creation of the sky the stars the water the animals, etc. GOD is GOOD
In John 3:8
“Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil”
Sin in its origin is being like God and having knowledge that was not intended for us to have. That is why my opinion relies on understanding the difference between “worldly knowledge” that is created by man and our Father’s knowledge. Our Father knows all and worldly knowledge is limited. All knowledge comes from God of course but the kind of knowledge I am speaking of is the kind that God allows us to have to understand the truth, the word of God. There is a bigger picture to things and the kind of knowledge to understand starts with letting go of what is logical.
Again this is my opinion. And by all means correct me because I am constantly learning.
By the way this brings me to another example of why Jesus gets baptized to fulfill what is righteous.
Mt. 3: 13-16
Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14. John tried to prevent him saying “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?” 15. Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him.
Jesus is righteous. Jesus is the Son of God. The Holy Spirit worked through him and Jesus is our savior and he took away all sin so that we sin no more. Jesus as the son of God was born a man and became human to show us that nothing is impossible with God. God has a plan for everything you just have to see the bigger picture :) He is the author we are the characters :) He is our Heavenly Father and we are his Children of God :) so long as you truly know what it means to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and that you understand who the Father is as Lord God Almighty, what the Son of God did for us ( Jesus Christ our Savior who took away sin), and how the father works through us and controls us with the Holy Spirit.
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The Creator's goal was extremely high quality, loving relationships with Himself and among others, and for this sovereign choice is an absolute requirement. God did not create evil, but allowed for its possibility so men and angels could have genuine, loving relationships with Him and each other. The Creator is free to choose, and He chose to create others in His image who were genuinely free to choose, for the potential of infinitely more meaningful relationships, including genuine love. According to the verse quoted above in James, God can't be tempted with evil (this includes Christ), and doesn't tempt anyone else to do evil. In other words, temptation to evil has nothing to do with God, and James emphasizes that we are not to err in this since it is man's natural tendency to reason otherwise from his limited perspective. For example, God planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil in Eden, but from God's perspective this was not at all to induce man to sin but as an ongoing proof of man's love, trust and faithfulness to God.
When we self-centeredly choose ourselves over God, His goodness is no longer present with us, and evil is the only possible result. This is why Lucifer became the father of evil by choosing himself above God even without even the slightest external temptation.
Evil doesn't require a new creation, but is the natural state in the absence of good, as darkness is the natural state in the absence of light. If one has individual freedom to turn from light, there is shadow of darkness, and if one has individual freedom to turn from good, the only alternative is evil. Since God is the only source and sustainer of goodness and spiritual life, choosing anything other than Him and His will is only and completely evil, and causes spiritual death.
Most I've encountered, including atheists, believe we are free to choose, and that love (and hate) is genuine. World societies, legal systems and religions are based upon the assumption that there is objective truth and reality, that man is free to choose, and that he is accountable for his actions. Though there is much disagreement on what is good or not, practically everyone embraces the concept of good and evil. Even those who claim that there is no good and evil act as though the concepts are real, betraying personal disbelief in any amoral and unaccountable philosophy.
The Bible makes it clear good and evil are real, and sentient beings are individually as well as corporately accountable not only for their knowledge and actions, but for their thoughts, motives, passing up opportunities for good, etc., and declares that man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart (we mortals are unable to do so).
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