Bearing fruit without being guilty of dead works???

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on December 31, 2009 at 12:49pm

The motives of the heart when it comes to all we think, express or do are essential in determining their worth before the Lord, who knows men's heart's intentions.

We keep our motives for our works in check, right.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 2, 2010 at 12:41am

Dear Charles -

Great impute, I was wondering if I made any sense, but I see you got what I was trying to convey. Indeed, we are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, but the problem with that is that a living sacrifice can walk away from the altar, to be rebellious as much as the Lord permits. haha

Thank you for sharing bro.

Permalink Reply by PoiemaDei on December 31, 2009 at 3:34pm

Good discussion. And the comments are edifying indeed. The questions raised are so important. And the answers have helped.

The God whom we serve is certainly not just a force operating in us. He is living and He is full of knowledge, wisdom, and power. His aim in working in us is to empower us to work out the glorious grace of salvation He has imparted. And according to the Bible, He does this efectively by working on our will and action. This is thorough influence, isn't it?

Jesus said He is the true Vine and we are the branches. That puts us into an absolutley dependent relationship with God and yet an actively fruitful one. This is the nature of the relationship that exists (not ought to be or may be) between Christ and all who have come to believe in Him and are saved. Only God knows how to bring us into the consciousness and awareness that this is how and why we produce fruit. (Simple faith will spare us the debate and reasoning on the complex philosophy of human will and choice.)

But an allegory like branches and the Vine describing what IS in terms of our relationship with Christ certainly should encourage us to reckon that we must only yield and by faith feel or experience the flow of the hot, energizing sap of the Vine Life in us assuring us we are alive in Him to bear His fruit. The Holy Spirit knows how to bring us into this wonderful consciousness through prayer, worship, communion, meditation, the glorious enlightnement of the rhema word when we read and study the Bible, and so on.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 2, 2010 at 12:44am

You guys are a blessing,

Poemia great verses to bring to mind for the topic at hand.

Permalink Reply by ALCEDES JONES on December 31, 2009 at 5:52pm

GREAT DISCUSSION FOR SURE BY HIS WORDS WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP AND I JUST LOVE THE WAY THIS READ
Ephesians 3:7-13 (Amplified Bible)

7Of this [Gospel] I was made a minister according to the gift of God's free grace (undeserved favor) which was bestowed on me by the exercise (the working in all its effectiveness) of His power.

8To me, though I am the very least of all the saints (God's consecrated people), this grace (favor, privilege) was granted and graciously entrusted: to proclaim to the Gentiles the unending (boundless, fathomless, incalculable, and exhaustless) riches of Christ [wealth which no human being could have searched out],

9Also to enlighten all men and make plain to them what is the plan [regarding the Gentiles and providing for the salvation of all men] of the mystery kept hidden through the ages and concealed until now in [the mind of] God Who created all things by Christ Jesus.

10[The purpose is] that through the church the [a]complicated, many-sided wisdom of God in all its infinite variety and innumerable aspects might now be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere.

11This is in accordance with the terms of the eternal and timeless purpose which He has realized and carried into effect in [the person of] Christ Jesus our Lord,

12In Whom, because of our faith in Him, we dare to have the boldness (courage and confidence) of free access (an unreserved approach to God with freedom and without fear).

13So I ask you not to lose heart [not to faint or become despondent through fear] at what I am suffering in your behalf. [Rather glory in it] for it is an honor to you

Permalink Reply by PoiemaDei on December 31, 2009 at 6:36pm

Alcedes, this is a beautiful and enlightening reading from the Amplified. Thanks for sharing it with us. Oh the glorious blessings of the grace of God! It is all we need. Like the Lord assured Paul, "My grace is suffient for you..."

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 2, 2010 at 12:52am

Thanks for sharing Alcedes - it is definitely by grace.

Permalink Reply by Kendall Payton on January 1, 2010 at 2:00am

Well you touch on a lot in this post. so lets break it down. question, to get grace one most do somethin? if yes what most you do? answer Good works. well you most do what God has instructed us to do. Fear him and love thy nehboure as thy self. If you do these two things you are keeping the whole word of God. So grace is apon the man that keeps his comandments and lives them. I like how you broke down fearing the lord and you are about right, if you keep the lord and his ways on your mind at all times is a work and to live by them is a work, to share them is a work because you give the one you share with a chance at geting life. A work is dead if it is not fullfilling the word of God. So if you lie it's a dead work, if you steal (no matter what it is small or great) it's a dead work, For the wages of sin is death. "God is working in us to will and act", but how does this work??? Every thing that you lust after is kind of test a constant battle from birth to death to decide to live as christ did and dedicate your life to others or worry about what you have gained on a personal level on this earth. The choice to give of oneself is God's will the advancement of self is man's will.
Is forcing myself to pray that I won’t enter into temptation but be delivered from evil a dead work?
not really cause this is the fear of the lord working in you and as you grow in the word you will learn how to come to the lord in prayer. And to be forgiving to others brings you forgiveness so keep that up it may put you over the top in the lord's day.
Simply put, how do we work out what God works in by grace? The only thing he worked in is that every one in the whole world could get grace by keeping his word and liveing it till they die or he comes back to retrive his children. Children do as their father ask so if you keep the word of God you are his child. So use all that you have given above in your post but know that on faith hangs your salvation, if you belive in jesus.
Don't think there is a godly grace driven act of righteousness. but any act done unto another that is easing their load or edifing them about the word of god will help you stay under grace if you are following his word allready.
Hope this has been helpful. Love to talk about the word of God for on that word does our lives depend.
Peace In Jesus Name

Permalink Reply by PoiemaDei on January 1, 2010 at 6:37pm

Thanks for your comments, Kendall. It is so wondeful when we can do the good works that please God. But it was not always so for those of us who are now saved and can do what pleases God. Prior to our salvation we could not do the works that please God but instead walked in disobedience to God.

Grace is well-defined in several of these past discussions on Grace To Help as God's favour which we don't and cannot work for. The amazing thing about the grace of God is that through it God ministered life to us when we were dead in sin, helpless, and in enmity against Him. There was actually and obviously no good work we could have produced in that state to merit anything from God. Yet He ministered to us salvation by grace and raised us into life.

Having raised us into life by grace, God continues to sustain us and empower us by grace to do the good works that please Him. So, we now do what pleases God because by grace God works in us and empowers us to will and do what pleases Him. Although that does not have to be, but if at any point we are tricked by the devil and move away from our dependence on God and sin, we are still assured of the forgiveness of God and the ongoing power of God by grace to rise up and continue in His will.

In the end, we all will genuinely give Him glory acknowledging before Him that all the good we ever accomplished were by His grace.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 2, 2010 at 1:06am

bro Kendall,

I like your answere to my question "Is forcing myself to pray that I won’t enter into temptation but be delivered from evil a dead work?"
-not really cause this is the fear of the lord working in you- yes indeed, this is the Holy Spirit helping us fight the fight between flesh and Spirit.

I was also reminded of this scripture:
The Parable of the Two Sons

28 “But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’ 29 He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went. 30 Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?”
They said to Him, “The first.”

Our motives can be twisted and wrong, so we must check our motives as I said before and aligned them to God's word. We should not do anything seeking praise or worship to ourselves in any way, for all praise and worship belongs to the Lord.

Doing the right thing needs proper motives, which we learn from the word and apply by the spirit, but doing something we "dont feel like doing" doesnt mean its a dead work. As long is it is not done to glorify ourselves or earn gods forgiveness.

Permalink Reply by Kendall Payton on January 2, 2010 at 1:21am

Well I think you got it and every thing you do seek the forgiveness of the lord for every thought of man is evil constintly. So to keep the will of the lord on your mind is to be spiritual and one with God. So how do you gain this type of spiritualality? If you figure that out you may have figured out what enoch did so many years ago. And think even he will be here in the lords day and has not asscended to heaven. Sorry went off a little there. Question do we agree that there are three heavens found in the Bible? "This is a fruit brother" edifing ourselves about Jesus. We have to let go of the false doctorine of man and get back to the truth of christ. I have a lot to get out there so I have to remember patients brother bare with me, and may all praises be unto God in heaven.
I love this
Peace In Jesus Name

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 2, 2010 at 1:35pm

I truly appreciate you responses bro Kendall,

So how do you gain this type of spiritualality? you asked bro, well by becoming Spiritual minded by the renewing of our mind as Rom.12:2 states and learning how to take thoughts captive as soon as they pop in our mind as we are taught in 2 Cor. 10

It is extremly possible for us to attain such maturity and The bible gives us weapons which are not carnal to do just that.

Romans 12:2 (New International Version)
2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

If my memory does not fail me i believe there is only one place where we read about the 3rd heaven. Paul speaks of it on 2 Cor. 12 according to most theologians/bible students the first heaven is our atmosphere, the second is the sky in which we see the starts and the third is heaven, the adobe of our Lord.

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