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Trinity
I want to know more about the existences of this trinity and some fact to proof it from the scripture. Thanks
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Hellofull,
The John 20 text in context establishes, not denies Jesus as God. This is not bit and pieces, but in context. This is not the same as when the disciples seeing Jesus far off thought they saw a ghost. Thomas saw Jesus up close and touched Him. He proclaimed, by faith, that Jesus is his Lord and God. Jesus did not, I repeat, did not refute or rebuke him. Jesus accepted the statemnet as true. You can deny this and argue the plethra of evidence in Scripture, but that does not make you right.
There are so many problems that would arise in Scripture if Jesus were not God. Take for example:
JN 9:35-36 "Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" "Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him." Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you." Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him."
Two comments regarding the above Scripture. 1) Worship is only due God as given in the ten commandments. If Jesus were not God and allowed others to worship Him, and if He accepted their worship, which He did, then He would be disqualified to be the Lamb of God, the spotless, sinless Lamb. He is either God or a blasphemer. 2) Often people perceive the title of Son of Man referrring to His association with mankind and Him living in the flesh. This can be applied, actually it is much deeper and clearer than that. The title refers back to the Book of Daniel. Daniel 7:13-14 reveal the son of man and that he was worshiped. Again, no one is to be worshiped but God alone. There is also a reference in Daniel 8.
LT
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Permalink Reply by Hellofull on
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The event written in Luke 24:36-39 is not about the apostles seeing Jesus afar off. It was also after the resurrection of Christ.
I Agree... that man should worship Christ, but that doesn't mean that He is God. We should worship Christ because it is commanded by God--the Father Himself:
"Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:9-11)
To bow down is to worship.
Oh come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the LORD our Maker. For He is our God, And we are the people of His pasture, And the sheep of His hand. Today, if you will hear His voice: (Psalms 95:6-7)
Worshiping Christ is not against the commandment of the Father that we should only worship God.
How should we worship God?
"In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:9-10 NKJV)
We should praise His name and do His will. Worshiping Christ is obeying God's will written in Phil. 2:9-11. Thus worshiping Christ is worshiping God--the Father Himself. Not because Christ is the Father but because it is the will of the Father.
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Hellofull,
Granted on Luke 24 is not what I was refering to as far off. I was refering to Matthew 24. In Luke 24 they did not believe immediately, yet in John 20 Thomas clearly proclaimed his belief. Regarding worship. the ten commandments tell us to worship only God. The idea that it is ok to worship another because God deemed it so means that He has altered the ten commandments. Your view is inconsitent with Scripture. God is a jealous God and will not share His glory with anyone, nor give us a command to worship another. The command is very clear. I wish you could see clearer, but only God can bring that about. Praying for you.
LT
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It is God Himself who have exalted Christ
Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Bowing down to Christ and confessing that He is Lord is for the glory of the Father. We worship God to glorify Him. Following the Father's commandment to worship Christ is for the glory of the Father.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Hellofull,
I know I said I was done here....but this I can't leave alone...
Why would God want us to worship a man?...as LT already said... Our God is a Jealous God..There shall be none other before Him... He is the only true God existing as a triune God...
May God open your eyes by His Holy Spirit! If you don't believe in the Holy Spirit...I'm afraid that you will stay in darkness... May God have mercy on your soul.
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A man that died for His Church (Eph. 2:25).
A man sanctified by God (John 10:36) thus without sin.
A man who was made mediator between God and Man (I Tim. 2:5)
A man who was attested by God by miracles (Acts 2:22)
A man who was made prince and savior (Acts 5:31)
A man who was exalted by God (Phil. 2:9-11)
Why did God commanded us to worship His Son? It is for His (the Father) glory (Phil. 2:9-11). Worshiping Christ is worshiping the Father or following the Father's commandments.
What God forbids is to worship other gods (Exo. 20:3-4). Thus, worshiping Christ and the Holy Spirit because they are gods is what is against the will of God. There is only one true God (Mal 2:10; John 17:1, 3; I Cor. 8:6)
Worshiping Christ, a special man, the only begotten son is following the will of God, tantamount to worshiping God--the Father Himself.
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The following is from the Names Topical Bible:
Deity of:
Indicated by the Titles Ascribed to Him-- Immanuel (Isa 7:14, w Mt 1:23). First and Last (Rev 1:17; 22:13). God (Ps 102:24-27, w Heb 1:10-13; Jn 1:1; 20:28; Ro 9:5; 1Jn 5:20-21), God and Savior Jesus Christ (2Pe 1:1). God our Savior (Tit 2:13). Holy One (Ac 3:14). Lord of lords and King of kings (Rev 17:14). Lord (Ps 110:1 w Mt 22:42-45; Isa 40:3 w Mt 3:3; Ac 20:28). Lord Almighty (Isa 8:13-14; 1Pe 2:8). My Lord and My God (Jn 20:28). Lord of all (Ac 10:36; Ro 10:12). Mighty God (Isa 9:6). Only born of the Father (Jn 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1Jn 4:9), Son of God (Mt 26:63-67; Mk 1:1; 15:39; 1Co 1:9; 2Co 1:19; Gal 2:20; Eph 4:13; Heb 1:2; 2Pe 1:17; 1Jn 1:2-3; 3:23; 5:10, 12-13, 20), Son of Man (Da 7:13-14; Mt 11:19; 12:8). See above, Divine Sonship of; below, Son of God; Son of Man.
Addressed as Yahweh (LORD)-- (Isa 40:3 w Mt 3:3). King or LORD of glory (Ps 24:7, 10; 1Co 2:8; Jas 2:1). The LORD our righteousness (Jer 23:5-6; 1Co 1:30), The LORD all (Ps 97:9; Jn 3:31), The First and the last, the Alpha and the Omega (Isa 44:6, w Rev 1:17; Isa 48:12-16, w Rev 22:13). Yahweh's fellow and equal (Zec 13:7; Php 2:6). LORD Almighty (Isa 6:1-3 w Jn 12:41; Isa 8:13-14 w 1Pe 2:8). LORD (Ps 110:1; Mt 22:42-45). Yahweh the Shepherd (Isa 40:10-11; Heb 13:20). LORD, for whose glory all things were created (Pr 16:4; Col 1:16). Lord the messenger of the covenant (Mal 3:1; Lk 7:27). Invoked as LORD (Joel 2:32; 1Co 1:2).
Equality With God-- As the eternal God and Creator (Ps 102:24-27; Heb 1:8, 10-12). The Mighty God (Isa 9:6), the great God and Savior (Hos 1:7, w Tit 2:13), God over all (Ro 9:5), God the Judge (Ecc 12:14, w 1Co 4:5; 2Co 5:10; 2Ti 4:1), Immanuel (Isa 7:14, w Mt 1:23), Lord of lords and King of kings (Da 10:17, w Rev 1:5; 17:14), the Holy and Righteous One (1Sa 2:2, w Ac 3:14). The Lord from heaven (1Co 15:47). Lord of the Sabbath (Ge 2:3, w Mt 12:8), Lord of all (Ac 10:36; Ro 10:11-13). Son of God (Mt 26:63-67), the only born Son of the Father (Jn 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1Jn 4:9). His blood is called the blood of God (Ac 20:28). One with the Father (Jn 10:30, 38; 12:45; 14:7-10; 17:10). As sending the Spirit equally with the Father (Jn 14:16, w Jn 15:26). As unsearchable equally with the Father (Pr 30:4; Mt 11:27). As Creator of all things (Isa 40:28; Jn 1:3; Col 1:16), supporter and preserver of all things (Ne 9:6, w Col 1:17; Heb 1:3). Acknowledged by Old Testament saints (Ge 17:1, w 48:15-16; 32:24-30, w Hos 12:3-5; Jdg 6:22-24; 13:21-22; Job 19:25-27). Is one with the Father (Jn 5:17-18, 23; 10:30, 33, 38; 12:45; 14:7-11; 17:11, 21-22). Sends the Holy Spirit equally with the Father (Jn 14:16). Identical with the Adonay (Lord) of the Old Testament (Jn 12:40-41, w Isa 6:8-11), and the Yahweh (LORD) of the Old Testament (Jn 19:37, w Zec 12:10). Has power to forgive sins (Mt 1:21; 9:6; Mk 2:5; Lk 5:20; Col 3:13). Paul's apostleship from (Gal 1:1). Invoked with the Father and the Spirit in benedictions (Ro 1:7; 1Co 1:3; 2Co 1:2; Gal 1:3; Eph 1:2; 6:23-24; 1Th 1:1; 3:11; 2Th 1:1-2; 2:16-17; 2Ti 1:2). All power given to (Mt 28:17-18). Eternity ascribed to (Jn 1:1-2; 1Jn 1:1). See below, Eternity of. Is judge (2Co 5:10). See below, Judge.
Testimony Concerning His Deity-- By the Father (Jn 5:32, 34, 37; 6:27; 8:18; Ac 13:33; 1Jn 5:9), at his baptism (Mt 3:16-17; Mk 1:11; Lk 3:22), at his transfiguration (Mt 17:5; Mk 9:7; Lk 9:35; 2Pe 1:17). By Jesus concerning himself (Jn 5:18, 31, 36; 8:18, 42; 10:33, 36, 38; 12:45; 14:11-13; 16:27-28; 17:5, 8, 24-25; 19:7), to Peter and other disciples (Mt 16:16-17; Mk 8:29-30; Lk 9:20-21), to the Jews (Mt 22:43-44; Jn 5:23; 10:30, 33, 36, 38; 12:45), to his disciples (Jn 16:27-28), to the restored blind man (Jn 9:35-37), to Philip (Jn 14:7-11, 20), to Caiaphas (Mt 26:63-64; Mk 14:61-62; Lk 22:67-70), to Pilate (Jn 18:36-37; 1Ti 6:13). By the angel, to Joseph (Mt 1:23), to Mary (Lk 1:32, 35). John the Baptist (Jn 1:29-34; 5:33). John, the apostle (Jn 1:14, 18; 13:3; 1Jn 2:22-24). The disciples (Jn 16:30). Paul (Ac 9:20). The author of the epistle to the Hebrews (Heb 11:26). The Scriptures (Jn 5:39). Thomas (Jn 20:28). Demons (Mt 8:29; Mk 1:23-24; 3:11; 5:6-7; Lk 4:34, 41). -
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Permalink Reply by Theresa on
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Dear Hellofull,
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
God gives you His Holy Spirit when you ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, He comes to dwell inside of your heart, God has a home and His home is in your heart through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Did you receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Jesus loves you because He died for you, He shed His blood for you. When God the Father sees the blood of Jesus, He will protect you, save you and He calls you one of His own because of what Jesus did.
How can you not acknowledge and confess that Jesus is God after you read this scripture? How about Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Thank God there is no argument in heaven about JESUS but it has to start here on earth somehow, somewhat, -
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Permalink Reply by Mari on
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Dear Ajala
I don't have my Bible with me at the mo otherwise I could have given you loads. Just a though, but have you ever asked God to give you them? He in the Trinity was the One that wrote it anyways...
Be Blessed in God!
M.
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Dear LT,
I assume that you posted those titles of Christ (although some of those are erroneous) to prove that He is God. Following such way of thinking many would qualify as God. Let's take for example, Elijah whose name means "the Lord is God," Elisha (God is Salvation), Daniel (God is my Judge), and many more names of people and even places.
Names or titles of a person does not indicate their state of being. It is either their prophetic names, throne names, or personal names. Apostle Peter for example is called "Cephas" meaning "stone," we know for the fact Peter is man and not a rock.
Now let us focus our attention about these titles:
1. Lord
2. Alpha and Omega
Christ is Lord. The Father is Lord
I agree that Christ is called Lord. But not because God--the Father is also Lord, Christ is already God.
That's a simple fallacy in logic. The Lordship of Christ is different from that of the Father. Christ was made Lord by the Father (Acts 2:36), meaning His Lordship was not innate to Him. The Lordship of the Father however is innate to Him, no one made Him to be Lord, but rather He is the creator (Psalm 100:2-3).
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."(Acts 2:36, New King James Version, emphasis mine)
"Serve the LORD with gladness; Come before His presence with singing. Know that the LORD, He is God; It is He who has made us, and not we ourselves; We are His people and the sheep of His pasture." (Psalms 100:2-3, New King James Version, emphasis mine)
Christ is Alpha and Omega. God is Alpha and Omega.
Does that mean Christ is God? Take for an example Apostle Peter, he is called "Cephas" or stone (John 1:35-42), Christ is also called stone (Acts 4:10-12), Christians are also called "living stones." If we follow such way of thinking it would imply that Peter is Christ.
Others might argue that Christ’s being “stone” is different from that of Peter and other Christians. That is correct, and that is precisely the reason Christ could not be God just because He is called by the same titles as God—“Alpha and Omega."
"Alpha and Omega", the first and last letters of the Greek Alphabet, meaning "first and last." (like you have posted) Such titles are used both of God and Jesus Christ, in distinct and dissimilar senses that they are called such.
The Lord God is "Alpha" because all things came from Him (I Cor. 8:6). He is "Omega" since He set the day of Judgement (Acts 17:31; I Cor. 15:28) or the "end of the age" (Matt. 24:3).
Chirst is different. He is "Alpha" because He is the "first born of every creature" (Col. 1:15, King James Version), not that he has pre-existence prior to His birth by Mary. It means Christ was already "foreknown" or in the mind of God even "before the foundation of the world" (I Pet. 1:20, Douay-Confraternity Version). Christ is "Omega" because it is through Him that God will judge the world on Judgement Day (II Cor. 5:10).
And one more thing... Jesus Christ is Lord but was never called Yahweh or Jehovah. Yahweh or Jehovah in the first place was just a mixture of the tetragrammaton (YHWH) and the vowels of the Hebrew word "Adonai" This was first used by Galatinus in 1520.
Hellofull
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Dear Theresa,
I have already discussed with them, Matt. 1:23. Now let us study Isa. 9:6. Let us quote it from the Bible.
"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6, New King James Version, emphasis mine).
I agree that this is a prophecy concerning our Lord Jesus Christ. But should this prophecy be used to prove that Christ is God?
If you have notice in the verse, it says "And His name will be called..." it did not say "And His names will be called." Clearly therefore that "Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" is a long single name. It shouldn't be taken as a series of name. Isaiah is originally written in Hebrew so it would be of help if we consult the Jewish Publication Society of America. How did they translate such verse?
“For a child is born unto us, A son is given unto us; And the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom.” (The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text, 1917 edition).
Thus the phrase "Mighty God," is a part of the name and not one of the names. "Mighty God" therefore refers to the Wonderful Counselor who is also the Everlasting Father.
“All this also comes from the LORD Almighty, wonderful in counsel and magnificent in wisdom.” (Isa. 28:29, New International Version, emphasis mine)
“And yet, LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, and you are the potter. We are all formed by your hand.” (Isa. 64:8, New Living Translation, emphasis mine)
Taking into consideration that Christ is not the Father but the Son (Matt. 3:16-17), he could not be the "Mighty God."
Although the phrase "Mighty God" is a part of the title that would be called to Him. It does not refer to His state of being but rather to the government that would be upon His shoulder. (Isa. 9:7)
If we are to accept that Christ is God because His name contains the word "God" in it (although it really refers to His government) many would qualify to be God. Like ELijah, ELisha and DaniEL. EL means God.
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