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Trinity
I want to know more about the existences of this trinity and some fact to proof it from the scripture. Thanks
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hellofull on
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You sure you want to talk about it in this thread?
Jesus for me, is the Jesus taught by the Apostles. And not the Jesus that was agreed upon in the Council of Trent in 325 A.D.
Who is the Jesus taught by the Apostles?
Acts 2:22 NKJV
"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know.
I Timothy 2:5 NKJV
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Hellofull....
Yes I am sure I want to talk about it here.. absolutely!
You haven't answered my question. I'll say it again... Who is Jesus to you personally?
Can a mere man save you? Would He not have to be divine?
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So that are the real questions.
Who is Jesus to me personally?
The head of the Church of Christ (Col. 1:18; Eph. 2:23)
My savior (Acts 5:31)
Thus Jesus to me, is not "mere man" but a special man for He have be given by God, attributes that we cannot find in ordinary men.
Can a mere man save me? No, but Jesus Can. Why?
Because, this is what God made to Jesus who is a man attested by God (Acts 2:22)
"Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins." (Acts 5:31 NKJV)
He was made savior by God.
Would He (I assume you are referring to Jesus) not have to be divine? No.
God did not made him God and Savior.
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Dear Hellofull,
How do you reconcile that Jesus can be your Savior but not God?
God appoints many people here on earth to do many amazing things...However, they are still merely people...sinners, saved by God's Grace.
Jesus was without sin....fully human.. ...fully God!
You are leaving out many scriptures to suit yourself. This is between you and God!
A Savior must be God........
To be a man, even a great man with special attributes is not enough!
Ye must be born again!
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Jesus was without sin... I Agree
fully human... I Agree.
How could a FULLY human be FULLY God at the same time? Or were you trying to say half man and half God?
fully God... Not in the Bible
Then why was Jesus without sin?
"do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?" (John 10:36 NKJV)
He was sanctified by God. In other rendition of the Bible... He was made Holy. That is why He is without sin. The God who sanctified Him is different from Jesus who was sanctified.
A Savior must be God... were in the Bible could you read that?
You are the one basing your faith on man's opinion not me.
Going back to Gen. 1:26... I never said cherubins were co-creator.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Hellofull,
I repeat, JN 20:28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
According to Thomas Jesus is God. Either Jesus is God (and He did not refute Thomas' words) or Thomas was in error. Do you believe Thomas was right, in error or that the Bible has been changed?
LT
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Dear Hellofull,
Your comments are bolded...mine are not:
How could a FULLY human be FULLY God at the same time? Or were you trying to say half man and half God?
I like how John MacArthur puts this:
Is Jesus God or man? Both. Is He all man? 100 % man? 100 % God? How can He be 200 %? It is a paradox. Who wrote Romans? Paul wrote Romans? God wrote Romans. They alternated verses? Who wrote Romans? Was it Paul’s words from his vocabulary and his heart? Was every word inspired by the Spirit of God? How could every single word come out of the mind of God, and yet, Paul feel that every single word came out of his own heart? You know what is going to happen if you try to synthesize those things? Okay. You know what happened in the early church councils? They got so confused and said, “Okay, he is half God and half man.” And, you know what you have got when you have half God and half man? Nothing. What is half a man? There is no such thing. What is half a God? A nothing. So they come up with heresy. So, on the one hand they said he is all deity and the idea that he was a physical being is just a phantom. And, they came up with a phantom view. And the others said, “No. He was all man, and he is not deity at all. Because they tried to resolve it, they came up with heresy every time. They either said he is all God and not man, or all man and not God, or half and half, and that is a nothing. You have to leave the paradox.
They’re all one. Because Deuteronomy 6:4 says, “ The LORD our God is one LORD.” Because Jesus said, “ I and the Father are one.” Because in one place it says, "the Spirit of God"; in another place, Romans 8:9, it says, "the Spirit of Christ." They’re all one. And yet they’re separate. (John MacArthur)
A Savior must be God... were in the Bible could you read that?
This is a qualifying statement! No one else is qualified to be my Savior except God...Jesus is God! He alone qualifies to be Lord of my Life..because He is God!...This is certainly my opinion...but it is also what God wants from me, to put Him first in all things!
Going back to Gen. 1:26... I never said cherubins were co-creator.
this was also your comment when you sent me a private message:
The "us" refers to the ones who are already there, but it doesn't mean that they are co-creators of God (Gen 1:27). Who are the ones who are already there? The Cherubins
Scripture says this:
1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Clearly God is talking to someone....saying "Let us make man in our image"....who is God talking to that He would count as worthy to 'Create' with Him? Obviously God is not alone here...and someone is contributing to the Creation of man....so who is it? I say it is the Trinity! Whom do you say it is?
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First is for LT for he is first in line.
Does John 20:28 teaches that Christ is God?
If we will read the whole Chapter "20" of the Gospel of Christ according to John we will understand that it is about the Resurrection of Christ and not about Apostle Thomas preaching the state of being of Christ.
What is the condition of Apostle Thomas, when he said the words, "My Lord and My God"?
He doubted the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, thus:
"The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord." So he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe." (John 20:25 NKJV)
What is believing or having faith means anyway?
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Heb. 11:1 NKJV)
That is why we are sure that Apostle Thomas, didn't have faith with the resurrection of Christ, because he said that he will not believe unless he sees Christ.
To see is to believe that's what many people say, but to have faith does not need seeing.
That is why when Thomas, said "My Lord and My God" he was mistaken.
Apostle Thomas was not the only apostles who made such mistake when they have seen Christ after being resurected from the dead.
"Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you." But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit." (Luke 24:36-37 New King James Version)
The apostles supposed they have seen a spirit, when they see our Lord Jesus Christ. The spirit they thought they have seen is God (John 4:24).
And because of such wrong notion they were corrected by Christ, thus:
"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (Luke 24:38-39 New King James Version)
Christ corrected them. He said has proven to them that He has flesh and bones and not like God who is a spirit.
To Carla:
I would rather believe the Bible than John MacArthur.
The writer is different from the author. God is the author of the Bible and Apostle Paul is one of His writers.
The Doctrine that Christ is man and at the same time God, is not just unbiblical but is also against the teaching of the Bible.
Please notice what God said in Hos. 11:9:
"I will not execute the fierceness of My anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim. For I am God, and not man, The Holy One in your midst; And I will not come with terror."
He is God and not man. Can a man be God at the same time?
"Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Because your heart is lifted up, And you say, 'I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,' Yet you are a man, and not a god, Though you set your heart as the heart of a god" (Ezek 28:2)
The truth that Christ is man proves that He is not God.
And... you said these words:
"This is a qualifying statement! No one else is qualified to be my Savior except God...Jesus is God! He alone qualifies to be Lord of my Life..because He is God!...This is certainly my opinion...but it is also what God wants from me, to put Him first in all things!"
Sadly, your own opinion can't save you. It is the gospel of Christ which is the power of God to salvation, thus:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." (Romans 1:16-17)
Going back to Genesis 1:26.
I agree God is talking to someone.
But, it doesn't mean that those someone contributed to the creation of man.
Please read Gen. 1:27:
"So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
It did not say that "So they created man" what we can read is "So God created man."
God alone is the only Creator, thus:
"Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers?" (Malachi 2:10 NKJV)
"Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;" (Isaiah 44:24 NKJV)
To Charles Burwell:
All the verses you stated does not teach the divinity of Christ. I'll get to that later. -
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Hellofull,
Your assertion about Thomas is simply in error. Thomas was not corrected by Jesus. Thomas made a statement that was either true or blasphame. Jesus did not correct Him, because his statement was true. In regards to his doubts, they had been removed before he made the statement. It cannot be more clearer than that.
LT -
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Dear Hellofull,
You cannot take bits and pieces out of scripture and distort them to suit you. You must take scripture as a whole for complete interpretation. I'm sad to say that there is nothing more for me to discuss with you at this time. You are set in your ways...and God gives you the freedom to make your choices.
For Him,
Carla
By the way.. The 'LORD' (capital letters) in the OT is Jesus.
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Carla,
I'm not taking it bits and pieces. I believe the all that is written in the Holy Scriptures.
Old Testament which was written originally in Hebrew... There is no small or capital letters in Hebrew.
LT,
As I have stated already... Chapter 20 of the book of John is about Christ's resurrection. Not about the divinity of Christ. It's just like what happened to the other Apostles, they mistook Christ as a Spirit for they were terrified (Luke 24:36-39) and they were corrected. Just like what Carla said... don't take the Scriptures bits and pieces.
Thank you.
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Permalink Reply by Theresa on
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Dear Ajala,
The father did not exist first, then later the Son, and still later the Spirit. They all three have existed from before there was nothing that could begin-three distinct Persons all functioning as One. Upon the occasion of Jesus' baptism, all three Persons in the trinity were present and active. The father spoke from heaven, the Son was fulfilling all righteousness, and the spirit descended upon the Son like a dove (Matt.3:16,17)
The existence of the trrinity is a mystery that one day we will understand clearly. For now, we know that the bible teaches it and Jesus revealed it, and the Christian church from the beginning has confessed and safeguarded this precious truth ( 1 Cor.12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 2 Thess. 2:13,14).
The above is written by Pat Robertson and I agree.
1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ our LORD.
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