Can we lose our Salvation?

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Permalink Reply by Sarah78 on March 29, 2009 at 3:38pm

Hello All,

I started this Post months ago, I suppose I was somewhat ignorant in thinking there was a concrete answer. I have read many of the responses, but not all. I have come to the conclusion that there is not one person here at AAG or in the entire world that could answer this question beyond a doubt, I have read answers that totally support the OSAS believers and answers that support that we can in fact lose our salvation. I think in the end of it all it is a matter of personal opinion. I personally struggle with this question(obviously) and hope that we cannot lose our salvation. I hope for this, not because I want to willfully sin, but because sometimes my flesh is entirely too weak, to not give into temptation. Do my past or present sins hurt me? You bet! I always regret them and always feel shame or remorse...but because at times I struggle with issues that I now realize are beyond my control, (but not God amen!) I am learning that in the times that I backslid and faltered by leaving church and God behind and turning to alcohol instead, it was something much deeper that provoked me into these situations and some of them out of my control (depression etc) Now I know what is wrong with me and though I feel that at the moment I am in a actual battle for my faith, I still believe the Lord will not give up hope for me, at least I pray this.

I truly hope that once the Father has us, he will not let us go, but what I hope for more so, is that soon enough, it will be me hanging on to him and not letting go..ever...regardless if I'm OSAS...

That is the relationship I long to have again and forever, to feel his love, to know that I am loved and to reciprocate that love daily,and to not have any more fear regarding the solidity of my salvation...
God Bless,

Sarah

Permalink Reply by maggie hancox on March 29, 2009 at 10:01pm

I certainly understand your feelings as I struggle just the same!, only mine is not drink.

Essentially these feelings are but one thing!
Reservations as to the depth and bredth of Gods forgiveness, mercy and understanding of human nature and the part that sin plays in our lives because of Adam's decision.
May I please say that they are the same thing!!!!!

I realized that Adams decision to NOT have faith in Gods true and loving nature in all it's magnatude WAS the original sin, that is what Adam and Eve did essentially.
Rejecting God for WHO he was and taking action to confirm by consuming the reserved fruit,they believed in the slander that Satan put before them of God denying them something, believing that God was performing an 'unloving act' against them! So the original sin in fact was LACK of faith in Gods true and loving nature.
The more we purpetuate this belief of 'lack, and deprivation', the more we buy into this very same original sin.
Because in the end of all the different kinds of sin that there are it all comes down to that one orignial sin, masked and manipulated. Our reaction to such a belief in Satans slander causes us to react.
How do we react? greed, manipulation, murder, lies, ........our new understandings of sin have been segregated into its various forms,but in the end the core lie within us created it all and still does!!

when we feel deprived, or a lack we feel need to take control, to hold on to what we think is important, and to steal, fight and manipulate our way into getting what we feel we do not have and need.

We forget of Gods true nature, that he has a plan far greater then our own, we forget to give what ever our needs and desires are to God.We forget Gods true and LOVING nature.

The seed of sin is within us, the sin is to NOT have faith in Gods true love. Our every poorly made decision stems from this and this alone, our lack of faith.

So yes we are fighting for our faith, not our salvation!!!
Salvation was a GIFT to us, in absoloutely NO WAY can we earn it.
Would God take back his gift to us??
Jesus is STILL risen again,history is what history is.
God remains forever faithful, dispite our actions, he can not deny himself!!
Jesus STILL DIED FOR OUR SINS!

We fight minute by minute to have faith, to damn the lie that Satan inflicted the world with of slander against Gods true loving nature.

If you have children, you will find times when you know they are being deliberately missbehaved, sometimes deliberately nasty and you know you have taught them better...but you still love them!!

How much greater is our God whom gave his most precious gift, he had nothing greater to give!
To PROOVE to us the depth of his love.

It is not about this scripture or that, who has the perfect answer, because the answer is inside of you written on your heart and it feels like LOVE, because it IS love.

Even Paul struggled with sin, yet he was chosen worthy to learn from and be written in the bible time and time again.

Romans 7:18 I know I (am) rotten through and through so far as my old sinful nature is concerned. No matter which way I turn, I cant make myself do right. I want to, but I can't.
19-When I want to do good, I dont. and when I try not to do wrong, I do it anyway!!!!!!.
20-But if I am doing what I dont want to do, I am not really the one doing it, the sin within me is doing it.
21 it seems to be a fact of life that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong
22 I love Gods law with all my heart.
23 but there is another law at work within me that is at war with my mind. this law wins the fight and makes me a slave to the sin that is STILL within me.
24 Oh, what a misserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin?
25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is, In my mind I really want to obey Gods law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

8- So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus, for the power of the life giving Spirit has freed you through Christ jesus from the p;ower of sin that leads to death....

This is Pauls struggle with sin! and he is leading and teaching us!!!!!!!

We have not been informed what this sin is that Paul is struggling with, but it doesn't matter! it shows that what Jesus did for us goes beyond WHAT EVER IT IS!!!!
Because the struggle is not with our EXPRESSION of sin, but with the very CORE of it, FAITH IN GODS TRUE AND LOVING NATURE!!

Anything else is a smoke screen, ultimately another way for Satan to slander the perfection of Gods true love.

Because of my own struggle with this very issue, I now truely believe that the struggle is really as simple as this.


*capitals are used for emphasis, not 'yelling' :)*

I pray that God will overwhelm you with his love, that you would experience the pure simplicity and perfection of his true and loving nature. Amen

Permalink Reply by Chas Jones on July 13, 2009 at 9:04am

Hi Sarah, God makes it very clear that He is the author and finisher of our faith, and that He chose us before the foundation of the world was laid. He also promises that all who come to Him cannot be taken from Him, EVER or by anyone or anything. When Christ died for my sin upon the cross, He paid the price not just for my past sin, but for all my sins including those I have not yet committed. This does not give Christians freedom to sin, but rather, our new nature gained when the Holy Spirit indwells us, gives us the liberty and ability to sin not. Even then, we are being perfected, but we will achieve perfection until the new Heaven and new Earth arrive and we discard these corruptible bodies for new incorruptible ones.

May God bless you on this journey, keep in touch,

Chas

Permalink Reply by Jared on July 13, 2009 at 9:59am

Exodus 32: 33 "And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." Revelations 20: 15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Permalink Reply by Jared on July 13, 2009 at 11:06am

Terry, I listed two scriptures of The Word. I believe in Christ and that one day I will be judged by the only One who can weigh the heart of a man.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on July 13, 2009 at 10:57am

Jared,

In Exodus we see God speaking to the chosen nation of Israel and deals with the special covenant that God made with them. The church and Israel are not the same and many of the promises to them do not apply to us, though there can be principles found in those promises that we can learn from and apply to our lives. Their relationship was filled with many conditional promises. The promise of salvation in the New Testatment to the believer in Jesus is based on the work of Christ and His grace. We are saved by grace and that salvation is maintained by grace, not works, for sin is a work too.

This debate, with people on both sides of the fences will never go away this side of heaven. Each will believe as they will. I rest in Christ alone for my salvation, not Christ and me.

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Jared on July 13, 2009 at 1:30pm

LT, Revelations Chapter 20:12-13 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it: and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on July 13, 2009 at 1:49pm

Jared,

The verses you refer to speak of multiple books and the book of life. The dead were judge by the things written in the books, it does not say in the book of life. In fact verse 15 states that those not found in the "book of life" are cast into the lake of fire. Thus their evil deeds are recorded in the books, but their names are not found in the book of life.

REV 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

This event also refers to the period at the end of the thousand year reign.

REV 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (KJV)

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Jared on July 19, 2009 at 2:07pm

LT,Revelation 3:5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on July 19, 2009 at 2:09pm

Jared,

Refers to "The Book" not the other books.

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Gayla on July 14, 2009 at 2:57pm

I did not read thru all the replies, as they are now, quiet lengthy, so what I am going to say, may have already been covered, however, I think we each have to come to our own conclusion on this matter, and I think that is why the scripture was given, that states: That we each have to work out our own salvation, with fear, and trembling.

I do not believe that God means a quaking in our boots, kind of fear, what I do think he means, is a holy reverence, for his word, his spirit, and everything that pertains to him.

The bible says that fear of God, is the beginning of wisdom, again, this fear that the author is speaking of is not one of being terrified of God, because that would go against everything that we know of his character, which is love. However, without fear, or a Holy Reverence, we will not treat the things of God, as they ought to be treated, with great importance.

The previous generation, preached hellfire and brimstone, this generation has for the most part, preached love. Somewhere in the middle, there is a perfect balance, I believe. I think that God desires that we serve him out of love, rather than fear, however, I believe at the same time, that he wants, needs and expects reverence from each of us.

We as humans, have a hard time conceiving of a Holy God, one without sin, since sin is so much a part of the earth that we live on, and have inhabited for all of our lives. We seem to think of God out of our own humaness, however, he is so far different than we as human are, as darkness is to daylight. His ways are higher than our ways, therefore we sometimes struggle in trying to understand him.

This particular topic, has never been fully decided by the Christian camp, entirely. I believe it is Gods will for it to be that way. I think that is why he gave the scripture, to work our your own salvation, with fear and trembling, remiding us of his holiness, and his perfection, and our complete dependance upon him.

He wants a personal relationship with each of us, and he wants to lead us thru his word, helping us to understand it, as he meant for it to be understood. As we do this, he can and will teach us and train us, himself, thru the power of his Holy Spirit, in fact, another verse in the bible states that we need no teacher, but, him.

I think it is his will for us to learn how to depend upon him, alone, for the answers to the questions that we have. If we get them directly from him, how can we go wrong? Unless we are listening to the wrong spirit, and that is the topic for another message.

My personal opinion is that once we truly receive Gods gift of salvation, that nothing, nor noone can take it from us. And noone in their right mind, would even consider turning their back on such a wonderful gift, unless they had been deceived by the adversary.

Gods word declares that he is married to the backslidder, and it speaks of leaving the 99 to go in search of the one, who has strayed, to me, showing how very important that one truly is, to our Savior. I believe that our God will stop at nothing, to bring a straying child back into the fold.

This scripture taken from 1st. Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss : but he himself shall be saved ; yet so as by fire. is the final determining scripture, that answered the questions that I had concerning this topic.

I believe that God, will woe us, if we are in sin, by his spirit, that he will send many things our way, to get our attention, and if we continue to pursue our course, of not giving heed to his word, or his spirit, he will take action, as he deems necessary and fitting according to the extent of our wrongdoing.

There is another scripture that states, It is a fearful thing, to fall into the hands of an angry God. With all due respect, I personally do not want to raise the wrath of my Father, rather, I choose to do everything within my power, to serve him, to the best of my ability. My life has not been perfect, but it is my desire that is be as close as I am able to do in my humaness, and I would never, intentionally do anything that I felt would grieve the Holy Spirit, as I greatly appreciate the wonderful gift that I have been given, and choose willingly to everything in my power, to share what has been given to me, to any who desire to have the presence of God living within, and to be led by his spirit. To me, that is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me, in my entire life.

I love my family, but, I love God more, and I desire to be here with them, but, if he should call, I am ready to go, choosing to be present with him, rather than to live on this earth.

God knows our heart, our thoughts, our desires, our hopes, and he knows whether or not we are sincere with him, when we come in prayer. He watches our ways, and what we do, how we conduct ourselves, and he is the only one, who can truly determine if our salvation is for real, or is a fake.

If we are real in our love for the Lord, and truly desire to serve him, to love him and to please him, he will know it, and we will have an assurance in our spirits that we truly belong to him. If we do not have this assurance, it is to our best interest to pray and seek him until we do.

Permalink Reply by John Saputo on August 13, 2009 at 8:30am

http://www.tangle.com/view_video?viewkey=419e06b5f27342f0eb99&m...

There is a judgment for salvation for those who did not accept the sacrifice of Christ; that is the White Throne Judgment and the result is the Second Death for all those who's name were not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. The Bema Judgment is for believers only and they will be judged for the motive of their deeds done in the Body. The result will be Rewards or loss of rewards and the stature you will have in eternity before Christ and the saints.

John who was his beloved apostle, that knew Jesus intimately fell as a dead man when he saw the Lord in all of His Glory...how will I and you feel when we see this Lord and Savior that we have as Christians have sinned against time and time again and ignored His commands. I could just wet my paints but it is not terror that I fear it is His loving face that I can not bare to consider facing. God help me and you to get it right before we meet Him. Yes we are saved by utter grace but our works will state loudly and clearly how much we loved Him.

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