Can we lose our Salvation?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Larry on January 28, 2009 at 9:20am

I believe you are having a hard time accepting the possibility that one would choose to unbelieve because you know the impossibility of you personally to do such a thing. But I have to ask, what part of your free will do you not have that prevents you from doing the unthinkable?

Larry

Permalink Reply by Carla on January 28, 2009 at 10:59am

Hi Larry,

I'm not sure if your question was to me or not...

you said:
But I have to ask, what part of your free will do you not have that prevents you from doing the unthinkable?

Are you saying...that just because I wouldn't give up my Salvation..it doesn't mean that somebody else won't? ???

Let me say this..according to God's Word--in the context of the end times
(which may be now...)
Matthew 24:10
Any many will turn away from me and betray and hate eachother...

This is in the context of persecution that many of us will go through, and many already are. ..many will turn away due to the persecution they will face... Let's make sure we do our part to pray for one another so that the body of Christ is Strengthened, and no one becomes discouraged. Let us always encouraged one another, and persevere..always moving forward. Let us continually worship our Lord and Savior in Spirit and in Truth....and be obedient in prayer. That's why online site's like this one are so great...as many Christians all across the world are in fellowship....and honoring God be encouraging eachother and praying for one another.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets will appear and will lead many people astray.
Mat 24:12 Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But those who endure to the end will be saved.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (italics mine)

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by Rob Holden on January 27, 2009 at 4:07pm

LT,

I've pondered for days your last post. I can't find any holes in it. My mind has doubts, but the presence of the Lord weighs heavy on me when I read your writings--and I can't ignore that.

A question for you, not for contention, but rather to glean your perspective:

Once a person receives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit do they:
(a) no longer possess the capacity to stop believing and have faith in Christ?
(b) possess the capacity to stop believing and have faith, but will never do so?
(c) possess the capacity to stop believing and have faith, but the Spirit inside will prevent them from developing it fully?

One last angle and them I'm done scrutinizing:

Technically, those saved are written in the Book of Life (Phil 4:3, Rev 20:15,21:27, Luke 10:20, Heb 12:23). In order to be unsaved one would then have to be erased (blotted) from it:

Rev 3:5
Psalms 69:28
Deut 9:14,29:20
Ex 32:31-33

Rob

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 27, 2009 at 8:12pm

Greetings Rob,

In response to the first question I would answer (a) & part of (b). Let me explain. I do not believe that once we are enlightened that we have the capacity to unbelieve that which we know to be true because this enlightenment came through the Holy Spirit. So the first part is all "(a)". The second part is a little harder to define from my personal perspective. I do not believe that we can surrender that faith, which is a gift of God too, once we are enlightened, changed and sealed, thus choice "(a)". With that said, even if we could, I am sure we would never do so, giving a little room for the possibility of "(b)". The choice would be, "I know God is real. Will I choose life with Him or death without Him."

The second question:
The four O.T. references deal with life in the old covenant system. A system that depended on the repeatative sacrifice offered by the priest. A few people truly understood and looked beyond the Levitical system and forward to the coming Messiah. The priests sacrifices were not lasting and thus the O.T. people were not guaranteed eternal life if they trusted in the Levitical Law. The N.T. reference relates to a believer that has come to Christ, been changed and sealed. The offering for this person is Christ and His eternal sacrifice. One is an eternal sacrifice and the other temporal. Both the O.T. and N.T. references focus on relationship. One written in the blood of animals and the other in the blood of Christ. One deals with the nation of Israel and the other the church age.

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Larry on January 28, 2009 at 9:24am

Rev 3:5 is in the New Testament. Rev 3:1 says the letter is to the church at Sardis.

Larry

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2009 at 9:40am

Larry,

It does not imply their loss of salvation, but rather their assurance of it to the believers in Sardis.

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by JAMES VANDI on January 28, 2009 at 11:39am

Well Sarah my answer to this is yes. i.e those who were once saved can be denied eternity with God if they have strayed.We can assume someone to no longer be saved when such a person begin to deny God by his actions and confessions. For the fact that you were at one time born again and now live in sin is never a guarantee that you are and will always be heaven bound.If God will say he will not behold eniquity with his eyes, how much more do you think of a sinner entring heaven.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2009 at 12:45pm

Hey Charles,

I appreciate you sharing your testimony. I am sure it will be an encouragement to many including me. God's goodness to us is amazing and His grace never ending.

Two things I would like to insert here.

1) The length of this forum, probably the longest on AAG, has lasted and expanded to such length because the interaction was civil, with rare exception, through out. That is a positive thing as we discuss the things of God.
2) Some seek the answer to the question so that they can figure out how far they can go before they cross the line (shame on them). Others ask because they are concerned about where they have been and whether they are acceptable in God's sight after wandering away and can they even attempt to draw near again. A third group often is concerned about a loved one who may have professed Christ at one time, but now seems so far away from Him.

Food for thought.

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Sarah78 on January 28, 2009 at 2:09pm

This thread is incredible! Wow little did I know, I was asking a question that many have often pondered themselves. The one and only thing I disagree with you Lt is this:

"2) Some seek the answer to the question so that they can figure out how far they can go before they cross the line (shame on them)"

If anything I believe that if anyone actually took the time to research how much of a sinful life they could lead, in spite of Jesus saving grace, would be someone who was never really reborn to begin with. As I believe that the true evidence of being reborn is developing a unique love for the Father,Son and Holy Spirit, that is certainly not existent without this gift of faith.

It is the love of the Father that keeps us, and keeps us coming back. I do not believe for one moment that we can lose our salvation. I believe it is an impossibility, it would be like denying your own child and having a cold stoned heart towards them (which I believe is impossible). It is a mystery, this love for God that I have, it became a truth in my heart a long time ago, and nothing has ever shattered it. Yes I admit I have had my times of doubt or rather more specific, a hard time trusting it(which is my problem, not his), even recently, that perhaps I failed him so much that he could not love me anymore, but that is called conditional love.

Gods love is unconditional, there is nothing we can do or not do for him to love us less. There is NOTHING my child could do, or not do to make me love them less. The world may taint them and even change them but forever they will be my children. That is how I see Gods love for us. Sin taints us, and cuts off our relationship with the God, but I know that he always waiting with open arms to take us back and one day forever home. This was the reason we were created and the reason he took it upon himself to come here and die for us. What greater love is there?, what more could we do? nothing, but joyously accept this gift of grace, those who do not really understand the gift of grace, have NOT received the gift of faith.

We will stumble, but that stone or rock only brings us closer to him, and in my heart, that rock could be a lifetimes worth, but in then end if you are sorry, if you really do know the love of God, hes there to take us back. Its is like that song how he loves us, by Kim Walker she says "You would know if you have ever been touched by the love of God, cause you are never the same, never the same again" A very strong statement and sooo true..

Anyways, just wanted to add my two cents. I'm not even sure if it makes much sense lol...

God Bless.

Sarah

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2009 at 2:15pm

Sarah,

Just for clarity, that is not my view, it is what people actually ask or the motivation behind the question of some I have come into contact over the years. I was only pointing out reasons people may engage in this question.

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Sarah78 on January 28, 2009 at 2:17pm

Oh I see, o.k :-) Just adding my two cents...

God Bless.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2009 at 2:18pm

Sarah,

It was a positive two cents and well spent :-)

Lord Bless,
LT

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