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HOW MANY TIMES MUST I FORGIVE SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT DESERVE FORGIVENESS?
HOW MANY TIMES MUST I FORGIVE
SOMEONE WHO DOE NOT DESERVE FORGIVENESS?
Sometimes we ask this question because we feel so deeply hurt and then we feel a tug at our heart and decide : "Okay, I will forgive... but not forget". My friend, that is not forgiveness. FORGIVENESS LIKE JESUS IS UNCONDITIONAL FORGIVENESS.... unconditional love! And forgiveness is FOR THE UNDESERVING.
Matthew 18:21
21Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
Peter asked the Lord how often he should forgive his brother. The Lord's answer to him was simple: Up to 70 times seven times. (Matthew 18:22) In other words, all the time!
Argument: "Well, he does not deserve my forgiveness."
Substantiating answer: "Neither did you deserve God's forgiveness".
There is not a single person alive or dead who did not break all 10 of God's commandments. There is no such thing as a "partial sinner" or "great sinner". All of us were great sinners when Jesus saved us. And when we realize that we are forgiven much, we will love much. (Luke 7:47)
Question: "How on earth can you say that I have broken all of God's commandments? I have never committed adultery."
My friend, Jesus said, "If you lust after a woman in your heart, you have already committed adultery with her." (Matthew 5:28) That is God's standard. Man looks outward, but God looks inward at the heart. Moreover, if you break one law, you are guilty of all. (James 2:10) So everyone has broken all of God's commandments. Everyone is a great sinner.
I think there is not ONE of us (even how devout we may be and how deep our love is for Jesus) that has not transgressed. And, to me, that is the amazing thing about GOD'S GRACE. We, ordinary human beings, cannot grasp that concept. We must learn to accept and love the UNLOVEABLE'S (smile) - I think this is one of my own expressions... I did not check to see if it exists in the Dictionary... But this is the point that I am trying to make.
Now, you are no longer a sinner if you have received Christ as your Savior. You are a new creation. But you were a great sinner and God forgave you your huge debt through the death of His Son.
So if someone has wronged you, tell yourself this: "I did not deserve God's forgiveness, but He forgave me through Christ. So I forgive this person also." If you say something like, "He does not deserve it," it makes no sense. Forgiveness is not for people who deserve it. If they deserve anything, it is punishment. Both you and I deserve punishment!!! But forgiveness means that you extend grace — undeserved favor — like that which God extends to you.
I suggest that one forgives or pardons the transgressor "graciously"....
The dictionary defines this as follows:
1. kind and polite: full of tact, kindness, and politeness a gracious refusal
2. condescendingly polite: condescendingly indulgent and generous to perceived inferiors
3. elegant: luxurious and elegant gracious living
AND POINT NO. 4 IS THE ONE I AM REFERRING TO:
4. having divine grace: displaying divine grace, mercy, or compassion
Dear friend, if you choose to hold on to bitterness, no one suffers but you. You lose your peace, then possibly your health. It is just not worth it. God says to you, "Let go. Forgive them their debts, just as I have forgiven you yours."
And I think I am going to end on this beautiful note and to all who have to resolve a problem with someone who has been "unkind" to you, turn the other cheek... and return their anger and insults with "gracious kindness and love" as Jesus has asked us to...
Fondest love in our Savior, Jesus Christ
<:))))>
Your Friend
Ramona P.
SOMEONE WHO DOE NOT DESERVE FORGIVENESS?
Sometimes we ask this question because we feel so deeply hurt and then we feel a tug at our heart and decide : "Okay, I will forgive... but not forget". My friend, that is not forgiveness. FORGIVENESS LIKE JESUS IS UNCONDITIONAL FORGIVENESS.... unconditional love! And forgiveness is FOR THE UNDESERVING.
Matthew 18:21
21Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
Peter asked the Lord how often he should forgive his brother. The Lord's answer to him was simple: Up to 70 times seven times. (Matthew 18:22) In other words, all the time!
Argument: "Well, he does not deserve my forgiveness."
Substantiating answer: "Neither did you deserve God's forgiveness".
There is not a single person alive or dead who did not break all 10 of God's commandments. There is no such thing as a "partial sinner" or "great sinner". All of us were great sinners when Jesus saved us. And when we realize that we are forgiven much, we will love much. (Luke 7:47)
Question: "How on earth can you say that I have broken all of God's commandments? I have never committed adultery."
My friend, Jesus said, "If you lust after a woman in your heart, you have already committed adultery with her." (Matthew 5:28) That is God's standard. Man looks outward, but God looks inward at the heart. Moreover, if you break one law, you are guilty of all. (James 2:10) So everyone has broken all of God's commandments. Everyone is a great sinner.
I think there is not ONE of us (even how devout we may be and how deep our love is for Jesus) that has not transgressed. And, to me, that is the amazing thing about GOD'S GRACE. We, ordinary human beings, cannot grasp that concept. We must learn to accept and love the UNLOVEABLE'S (smile) - I think this is one of my own expressions... I did not check to see if it exists in the Dictionary... But this is the point that I am trying to make.
Now, you are no longer a sinner if you have received Christ as your Savior. You are a new creation. But you were a great sinner and God forgave you your huge debt through the death of His Son.
So if someone has wronged you, tell yourself this: "I did not deserve God's forgiveness, but He forgave me through Christ. So I forgive this person also." If you say something like, "He does not deserve it," it makes no sense. Forgiveness is not for people who deserve it. If they deserve anything, it is punishment. Both you and I deserve punishment!!! But forgiveness means that you extend grace — undeserved favor — like that which God extends to you.
I suggest that one forgives or pardons the transgressor "graciously"....
The dictionary defines this as follows:
1. kind and polite: full of tact, kindness, and politeness a gracious refusal
2. condescendingly polite: condescendingly indulgent and generous to perceived inferiors
3. elegant: luxurious and elegant gracious living
AND POINT NO. 4 IS THE ONE I AM REFERRING TO:
4. having divine grace: displaying divine grace, mercy, or compassion
Dear friend, if you choose to hold on to bitterness, no one suffers but you. You lose your peace, then possibly your health. It is just not worth it. God says to you, "Let go. Forgive them their debts, just as I have forgiven you yours."
And I think I am going to end on this beautiful note and to all who have to resolve a problem with someone who has been "unkind" to you, turn the other cheek... and return their anger and insults with "gracious kindness and love" as Jesus has asked us to...
Fondest love in our Savior, Jesus Christ
<:))))>
Your Friend
Ramona P.
Views: 8887
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Debbie on
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Dear Ramona,
How many times...#1. One more time. #2. If they do something else and are in need of forgiveness...refer to #1.
In Christ,
Debbie
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Permalink Reply by Ramona P. Jacobsz on
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Dearest Debbie
Forgiveness is a very complex subejct. I myself have been guilty of harbouring unforgiveness for approximately 7 months and it made me ill... This is a long story but I will try to be brief. My one domestic says she is a "believer" but only she and the Lord will know if that is true. My other domestic is a devout child of God. Now Emily (the "believer") had a great grand child whose young mother (17) died after childbirth. I gave them food and clothing to care for the baby (Xolani (second name Gift)) and I was paying a substantial amount of money to have this beautiful little boy taken care of. He was about five months old when I discovered he was sick "to death". We had him admitted to hospital and he was burned from urine - his skin tissue was scarred. His nails were filthy dirty and he was totally under-devloped. I was devestated. The nursing staff were alarmed and said they had not seen such neglect! He was put on a drip and when he recovered I arranged for him to go to a creche (a day care centre for children). I bought a camping cot, clothing and blankets, pillows and formula and Purity baby food. I had to pay the lady who took care of Gift. I had to give her my full details, doctor's name etc. After about two weeks Gift became seriously ill again and Louise took my baby to my house doctor. He as apalled at what he saw! He had him admitted to hospital again and after three days he died. Dr Gosling said it was culpable homicide and the great grandmother should be charged. I was very angry and heart broken. I had anger and unforgiveness in my heart. To make it worse she told me that someone was going to bury the baby but after two weeks the hospital called me to ask me what Emily intended doing as they could not keep a corpse there so long. I eventually got someone to make the most beautiful little coffin for my baby. (You will understand that I felt more for this baby than just Emily's grandchild)... I did not go to the funeral but I did what I could... however I was afraid I would go and say something irresponsible. "My" baby died in March and I harboured a lot of resentment (unforgiveness) up to about September - six months of agonizing... I went on my knees and asked Jesus to help me because my health was definitely suffereing and I felt like a hypocrit all the time... My doctor saw me the other day and asked if I was alright with the death of the baby... He was still most apalled about the fact that people ill treat a little baby like that. The story becomes even more complicated but I would have to write a book (smile) to explain it all. It is not only neglecting a baby - it is a 62 year old woman having an affair with a 37 year old man!
So, my dearest Debbie, about FORGIVENESS AND UNFORGIVENESS.. truly I have been there and it is better to follow the example of Jesus Christ and Forgive 77 x 7... Sensitive people just suffer more than the culprit.
Fond love in Jesus .... and more happy because I could let go... and let God
<:))))>
Your Friend
Ramona P.
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Dear Ramona,
...I'm speechless. My heart ached while reading your story. I am so very sorry for your loss and pain. You are correct, let go and let God. I don't know if I am out of line by saying this but it's in my heart, "Thank God this child is in heaven with Him instead of here suffering". You my friend did everything you could, you were a blessing to this child and God Bless you for that. Only God knows why others do the things they do. You are in my prayers.
Love In Christ,
Debbie
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My dearest Debbie
Yes, you are so right... my little "Gift" is in heaven... I have written a poem about him... What beat me up was the fact that he was six months old but he NEVER smiled??? He was a beautiful baby... but his little body was so burned from urine - he never got the attention I thought he was getting - until I removed him to the Day Care... I am so glad that at least for two weeks he was in "heaven"... clean huggies, clean clothing, food and love! Love is the most important factor in our lives... I did not even tell you about the time that some of the African people whom I know told me that his grandmother (the daughter of Emily) visited a shabeen (a place where they drink alcohol) and little Xolani was stark naked and she was dead drunk!!!
God knew that it was better for him to go to a place of safety - HEAVEN - and although I still weep sometimes when I think of the little corpse that Alinah and I went to bathe and dress and put in the coffin... His one little eye was still open... and we tried to close it. But he was still so beautiful! If ever I have a scenario like this I will not entrust the baby to his family if I know that ill will befall him or her... I will rather take the baby into my home and get an additional domestic to care for him. I am 72 years of age and a little old for babies (smile)...
But I praise God and I thank Him for the peace He has given me... I have forgiven... but the memory of my baby will always linger...
Thank you so much dearest Debbie and God bless you mightily
<:))))>
Your Friend
Ramona P.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen on
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Dear sister,
What a cruel world we live in! Your heartfelt story leads me to Luke 23:34.
Even as he was dying he exchanged hatred and selfishness for the healing salve of forgiveness.
Bless you dear. Stephen
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WE ARE NO BETTER THAN THESE AMISH PEOPLE... HOW ON EARTH DO YOU EXPLAIN SOMETHING SO AWESOME. TRULY ONLY GOD CAN EXPLAIN AND UNDERSTAND. WHY ARE "NORMAL" PEOPLE SO UNFORGIVING? OR ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNFORGIVING "ABNORMAL"... EACH OF US CAN TRY TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION ... I SIMPLY LOVE THESE AMISH PEOPLE AND I KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT GOD IS BLESSING THEM ABUNDANTLY...
Amish Grace: How Forgiveness Transcended Tragedy
On Monday morning, October 2, 2006, a gunman entered a one-room Amish school in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania. In front of twenty-five horrified pupils, thirty-two-year-old Charles Roberts ordered the boys and the teacher to leave. After tying the legs of the ten remaining girls, Roberts prepared to shoot them execution with an automatic rifle and four hundred rounds of ammunition that he brought for the task. The oldest hostage, a thirteen-year-old, begged Roberts to "shoot me first and let the little ones go." Refusing her offer, he opened fire on all of them, killing five and leaving the others critically wounded. He then shot himself as police stormed the building. His motivation? "I'm angry at God for taking my little daughter," he told the children before the massacre.
The story captured the attention of broadcast and print media in the United States and around the world. By Tuesday morning some fifty television crews had clogged the small village of Nickel Mines, staying for five days until the killer and the killed were buried. The blood was barely dry on the schoolhouse floor when Amish parents brought words of forgiveness to the family of the one who had slain their children.
The outside world was incredulous that such forgiveness could be offered so quickly for such a heinous crime. Of the hundreds of media queries that the authors received about the shooting, questions about forgiveness rose to the top. Forgiveness, in fact, eclipsed the tragic story, trumping the violence and arresting the world's attention.
Within a week of the murders, Amish forgiveness was a central theme in more than 2,400 news stories around the world. The Washington Post, The New York Times, USA Today, Newsweek, NBC Nightly News, CBS Morning News, Larry King Live, Fox News, Oprah, and dozens of other media outlets heralded the forgiving Amish. From the Khaleej Times (United Arab Emirates) to Australian television, international media were opining on Amish forgiveness. Three weeks after the shooting, "Amish forgiveness" had appeared in 2,900 news stories worldwide and on 534,000 web sites.
Fresh from the funerals where they had buried their own children, grieving Amish families accounted for half of the seventy-five people who attended the killer's burial. Roberts' widow was deeply moved by their presence as Amish families greeted her and her three children. The forgiveness went beyond talk and graveside presence: the Amish also supported a fund for the shooter's family.
AMISH GRACE explores the many questions this story raises about the religious beliefs and habits that led the Amish to forgive so quickly. It looks at the ties between forgiveness and membership in a cloistered communal society and ask if Amish practices parallel or diverge from other religious and secular notions of forgiveness. It will also address the matter of why forgiveness became news. "All the religions teach it," mused an observer, "but no one does it like the Amish." Regardless of the cultural seedbed that nourished this story, the surprising act of Amish forgiveness begs for a deeper exploration. How could the Amish do this? What did this act mean to them? And how might their witness prove useful to the rest of us?
<:))))>
Your friend
Ramona P.
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My Dear Ramona,
I prayed over this...whether to respond or not. My beliefs are quite strong and may not be what one would expect or want to hear. I deal with situations as this (not so dramatic, Thank God), and I do feel the urgency to share my convictions.
First, I don't know much about the Amish people, but I do know they believe as we do. That Jesus is the one and only son of God, that he died on the cross for the sins of the world. And that they are here for Service and Holy Living. (and they make excellent pies and bread...)
This man Charles lost his daughter and was so distraught that he blamed God and apparently his way of 'getting back' at God was to murder these children.(who did absolutely nothing to him and didn't deserve to die because of his daughters death). Can you even imagine how heavy his heart was? I can't...because I can't think of anything that could make me angry enough or make my heart so heavy and cold as to take another life. It's inconceivable.
God was at work! Look what happened, the next day 50 television crews were there, for five days. Forgiveness rose to the top...and trumped the violence. (what did God want from this situation, which he may not have authorized but allowed, would he want the world dwelling on the violence? Or would he want people dwelling on the forgiveness?) From what's above with news coverage MILLIONS of people were affected by this, horrific story...and praise God they focused where God wanted them to on the forgiveness. I wonder out of the millions of people who paid attention to this, how many soul's were won....how many souls were won because Charles was angry with God?
Amen to the Amish. Half of the mourners for the family of this man were Amish. Why not though? The wife and children of Charles werent to blame for what he did. And imagine their grief having to live with the fact that "their" husband or father killed innocent children because he was angry at God.
This example no doubt spoke to many peoples hearts. And the Amish in this case is a very good example...of forgiveness. I believe part of it is there 'simple' lifestyle...they live a life of service. They don't get caught up 'IN THE WORLD", they don't have to keep up with or be better than...
anyone, their ego's don't get in the way. They (most) live for God in a very simple way.
We are all called to something greater than ourselves, blessings await...but conditions will never be perfect. Much can be learned from this story. We have to accept the life we have been given, know God is in charge. In Christ there are no battles that don't expand our faith. What you shared was a true story of faith...thank you!
p.s. I have to admit...the person I struggle with forgiving is myslef.
Love in Christ,
Debbie
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Dearest Charles
Many thanks for the insight... I do not know anything about the Amish people but as you say, their FORGIVENESS is absolutely incredible.
Reading your explanation I suppose we would in very rough layman's terminology depict them as "weird" - however, because we are children of God we will rather say that they are "uniquely different" (smile)... No offence meant. It is just a family trait to see a funny side of things always. Please do not take me seriously...
But certainly, I appreciate what you have described to me and thank you for also sharing my "struggle with forgiveness"...
Fondest love in Christ
<:))))>
Your Friend
Ramona P.
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Permalink Reply by RoxChelseaGilmore on
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I have to forgive my best friend or my enemy 77 times
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Permalink Reply by Gayla on
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These are very sad, but beautiful stories, and it is good to be reminded of the fact that we are commanded to forgive, however, I would like to say something to the one that may be reading this, that is struggling with forgiveness. We are all different, and some have a harder time with this than others, to them, I would say, to confess your faults.... that is Jesus command, and it is his desire that we forgive, but, he can and will help us, if we are struggling in this area.
By bringing the inability to forgive to him, rather than attempting to hide it from him, which is impossible, as he knows everything, come to him with it, don't run like Adam and Eve did, when they sinned, it is useless, God knows everything about us, and loves us still. He is not mad at us, if we are unable to do something that he asks us to do, rather, he is loving and patient, and kind, as he forgives our inability to be able to do what his word is asking.
Accept his grace and mercy, for yourself, and offer up your unforgiveness, as the sin that it is. By confessing it, you have done the will of the Father, especially as you ask him to forgive thru you, and to enable you to do his will, and be able at some point to forgive, as he desires.
Do not fall into condemnation, as the Devil would love to taunt you with this, and beat you over the head with it, stop him at the pass, and take it to your loving Heavenly Father, all he wants you to do is bring it to him. He can and will fix it for you.
Having said that, I would like to share something that I just experienced, along these same lines.
A friend of a friend, was having great difficulty in life, stuggling, not being able to get or maintain a job, mainly because of interal anguish. He was litterly wasting his life away.
When I met both he and his friend, I started praying for both of them, as I got to know them better, I found that the friend that was struggling so, had felt rejected by his mother, as she had left him with his father, and married another man, having another child, and forgetting about her first child.
This had brought enourmous hurt to his heart, so much so, that he was failing at everything because of the feelings of being rejected that were buried deep within.
I did not know the extent of his pain, but kept praying for him, then word came that his mother was very sick, and his friend told me a little about what had previously happened, and of her concern for her friend, because of this.
I continued to pray and to ask for prayer, and now, I specifically asked that things be made right between the two of them before she passed away, if possible.
I am very greatful to be able to share what happened after this. As the ladys condition grew worse, her physician came to her bedside, and said to her in no uncertain terms, If there is anything you need to make right, now is the time to do it, for you do not have long to be here.
This might sound cold, but, since I know the whole story, and how many prayers were said concerning this, I know that God was actually speaking thru this Dr. The lady listened to what he said, and she said back to him, in a very raspy voice, Bring my son to me.
The Dr. did as she asked, and as she lay dying, she asked her son for his forgiveness, for what she had done to him, so many years ago, by leaving him, and making him feel abandoned, and she told him that she loved him, more than he could ever know, and she died.
This was the greatest gift she could possibly have given to her son, it moved him beyond words, to hear, what he so desperately needed to hear, from the one person in the world, that meant so very much to him, yet, he was so bound up inside, he could not share his feelings.
This released the pain that he felt, and brought a miracle in his life, his friend, has known him for many years, and she can see the tremendous difference in him, right away. It did not take long, the change was immediate.
.As the days go by, his life is taking on new meaning, and he is able to accept the offer of jobs that his father has, he had previously not cared about working, but, his energy has been renewed, and life has taken on new meaning.
So, please, if you know someone who is hurting, pray for them, until release comes, it will be more than worth it, when you see the results, or if you don't just trust them into Gods loving care, and pray anyway.
Also, if there is anyone in your life that you have hurt, or harmed, and it is nagging at your conscience, know that is the Holy Spirit, nudging you to make it right.
Please, make the effort to respond, it may make all the difference in the world, to someone else.
God bless....
Gayla S.
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Permalink Reply by Natasha Mayes on
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The Bible teaches us to forgive 70 times 7 times. I'm sitting at work at the moment, so please forgive me if I'm not giving any quotes. My personal experience is that forgiveness is a decision we make. This is also an on-going decision that has to be made EVERYDAY. You have to get up every morning and DECIDE that you are going to, with God's help, forgive those that wronged us. Do I make it sound easy? I know that it is not. Often the people that wrong us, doesn't stop. They continue to hurt us, and makes it that more difficult for us to forgive. For this reason forgiveness is not something that can be accomplished without asking for the Lord's strength and guidance. God knows we are weak in this regard. He knows that we find it difficult to let go. But once we make that mind-shift, that DECISION, He is faithful to give us the strength to stick to that decision if we ask Him.
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Permalink Reply by Kate Jacobs on
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I agree it is sometimes hard to forgive people, but we ourselves are not God. "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." People are human, there is sin in this world. I never dislike the sinner, but I dislike the sin. I am amazed that some people have forgiven me for my transgressions when I thought myself unworthy of forgiveness. But, then again, some people never forgave me. As Natash said, it was their decision.
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