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TITHE
IS PAYING OF TITHE COMPULSARY, BIBLE QUOTATION IF REQUIRED
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Debra Carol Wooten on
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Hello Everyone,,,, Although I am on a fixed income and every dollar counts I give God 10% in tithing, Our church does not run just on love. Could i use the money for something else? Absolutely. But nothing near as important as giving God what is God's. I love the Lord. And I praise him that I have 10% of something to give. Imagine all the people that have 0 income. However we do need to give with a cheerful heart. if you are not a cheerful giver I believe you would be just as well off to keep it in your pocket.
God Bless us each and everyone.
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Permalink Reply by Larry on
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Ron
Hmm ... thought you would say something like that.
Romans 8:1-4
Therefore, there is no adjudging guilty of those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death (the 10 commandments, tithing, etc). For God has done what the Law (10 commandments, tithing, etc) could not do, its power weakened by the flesh. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, God subdued, overcame and deprived sin in the flesh of its power. So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law (10 commadments, tithing, etc) might be fully met in us, who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit.
Larry
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Hi Larry,
Tithing is not what Paul is alluding to in these verses. The Ten commandments refers to what is and what is not sin. We cannot look to them for salvation because no one can keep them. Hence the need for a Saviour outside of ourselves.
Tithing is something totally different to keeping the law. It is not a sin to give therefore I can give a tithe or even more without sinning.
The sin comes in when I look to tithing as something I do to be saved or to prove I am saved.
Blessings ~ Ron.
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Ron
Actually that's not right. The Law is all those commandments, dietary restrictions and traditions of men that the Jewish people held so closely after the Exodus from Egypt. And, breaking any of those was sinning (including not tithing). Paul spent much of his time trying to get people over legalism.
But check out Jesus in Matt 12:2. The Pharisees were upset because Jesus was "breaking the Law". He pointed out to them that despite their law, there is something more majestic (6).
Larry
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You are perfectly right when you quote Mat 12:2. But Larry, the Pharisee looked on the keeping of all the laws as being the one and only road to God and eventual salvation. But today we know that "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." The law acts as a mirror to continually show us that we are sinners and not saints. YET, believe it or not Larry, the law is still with us and MUST be obeyed. If I murder someone I am in deep trouble and the law condemns me. Should I keep the law and not commit adultery, the law is still there but now it will approve.
WE cannot escape from the law of God. BUT, BUT, BUT, the very moment I believe that I am keeping the law and therefore can consider myself saved.... Then the law will be of no avail. I will have shown that the death of Christ is also to no avail in my life.
A tenth is basicly a good figure, it does not rob the giver and neither does it rob God. The wonder of it is and I previously gave testimony, is that no one can outgive God.
I suggested earlier that any member who has the advancement of the message of Christ to the lost uppermost in his mind, but does not believe it is necessary to at least tithe, then he needs to be the Church treaurer for a couple of months. The Income that the deacons, elders and Treasurer have to work with, is what decides how well or poorly the church will operate. If the congregation gives peanuts, the Pastor will probably leave and monkeys will perform for the church. Should the Pastor leave, don't blame him. He leaves because he is aware that the members have no vision.
When you decide to say: "First I do not see the neccessity of of it and secondly the law has been done away with....Let the others tithe, but not me." Then Larry, you have just made a law of your own. Where would the church be if every one felt that giving at least a tenth of your salary was wrong? It would close down, or your Pastor out of desperation would be standing on street corners with a begging bowl. The church would have no witness, no outreach, no ability to assist members, Your Pastor would walk to church and back, his wife would have to ignore their kids and go to work etc. I believe the Holy Spirit would encourage the Pastor to find a church where the Pastor give can be put to better use.
Perhaps I am beginning to realise that you are stuck on the word "Tithe" So perhaps I should speak of a tenth and not a tithe which you relate to being O.T Law. But Larry a tenth in King James English is still a tithe.
Last word Larry, if tithing together with the Old Testament laws are COMPLETELY eradicated, therefore we do not tithe. If this is true, then why do we not continue Blashpeming the name of God? Silly question hey! Both of us know why.. The difference then is that I know how to continue in the good things the law has created. No adultery, no stealing, no blasphemy etc. But there are also other good laws that I also keep and that is "The Labourer is worth of his hire and I see to it by not expecting $5 in the plate once a week to provide for the Labourer and the church he and I both represent. But none of the above that I do would I consider a ticket towards my salvation
The Lord Bless you as you search His face Larry.
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Ron
Wow ... I'm sorry you are on such an agonizing road! I am NOT talking about eradicating God's laws (as if that were even possible). The Law is always with us. I am just saying the Bible tells us Christians we are under a HIGHER law. It is the law of Christ. It is described in Matt 22: 37-40. Instead of worrying about obeying the laws that you so elucidately describe, we (Christians) MUST obey the law of LOVE. Forget the 10 commandments ... forget all the rules you think is proper for "good" conduct ... the thing we MUST do is LOVE. Burn that in your mind. If we truly love as Christ did, none of the "laws" will matter for we will have "accidently" fulfilled all of them.
Ron ... LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!
Larry
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Larry,
Love is the driving force and motivation. Pricniples give the road map to applying that love in a godly way. You cannot separate the principles from the life of a Christian as you are trying to do.
LT
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LT
Actually I am not trying to separate them. I am merely changing their focus in a Christian's life.
Larry -
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Hey Larry,
Long time no see :-)
MT 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
MT 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, `Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
MT 5:23 "Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.
If the "Law" is invalid today and has no effect on us, if the guiding principles are to be set aside today, what is verse 19 in Matthew 5 be referring to when Jesus speaks to the crowd of the kingdom of heaven?
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT
Good grief. What have I ever written that should suggest to you that the law should be set aside? What I am saying is that it has been replaced. Read Matt 22:37-40. The law is perfect and should never be set aside. But, the fact is none of us (you, me or Ron with his glowing description of the works of his church) have ever or even can fulfill its demands. So God has provided us a way to Him through what Jesus did.
Again, all the verses you reference above merely show Jesus telling the religious leaders of that time that following their "laws" had little to do with salvation.
Larry
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Larry,
Jesus' sermon, commonly referred to as "The Seromn on the Mount" was given to the populace, the crowds. You are right that we cannot live up to the Law and thus we need a Savior and that Savior is Jesus. At the same time, even though we cannot live up to it that reality does not negate it. We do not forget God's commands or plan for a righteous lifestyle, though we will fall short in self. We still aspire to live a life that is pleasing to Him, not for salvation, but in order to please our heavenly Father.The Law still exists, the penalty for the believer is paid.
If the Law still exists, to the exception of the ones clearly fulfilled or changed, then even though saved we still aspire to live by the principles. That cannot be set aside. Jesus fulfilling the Law did not set it aside, but rather paid the penalty.
Too often today people want to claim "grace" in an attempt to ignore the Laws of God. If one seeks to live a lifestyle that is pleasing to God based on the principles of Scripture they are often wrongly labeled as legalistic. I am saved by grace and seek to pleaase my Father in heaven because I love Him. Living according to His principles is one manner in which that love and devotion is shown.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Larry,
What are the ways of the Spirit? Are they not the same as the Son? What are the ways of the Son? The Son lived in obedience to the Father (Jn. 14:28-31). If there is no law, then what is the man in 1 Corinthians 6 guilty of and why would he be subject to church discipline? If there are no laws to guide us, what are the purpose of Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5 and 18? There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1) but there are life guiding principles that lead to blessing or discipline, for why would God discipline His children (Heb 12) if there is no law or guiding principles. Is His discipline not guided by principles or does He discipline at random?
Legalist seek to earn their salvation or retain it. Those living under grace seek to live in a manner that pleases the Father out of love guided by His precepts, teachings.
God has given clear example of when certain rules have been lifted. There is no need for a sacrificial system today, for Jesus is our eternal sacrifice. Food of various types, once forbidden, can now be eaten (Acts 10).
In the N.T., what was Paul referring to when he made the request that each one of you would give in keeping with his income (1 Cor. 16). Why would he use the idea of "keeping with his income" if the concept of tithing has ceased?
If one believes that all that we have is God's and we are simply stewards, why would giving an orderly 10% (minimum) be such a problem when you are only a steward and not the owner of the money in question? Do not the actions of many show that they really view the money and their possessions as theirs rather than as God's (Rhetorical)?
John Piper stated (paraphrased by me) that the real question is not whether we should decide to give 10%, but rather we need to decide what God wishes us to keep as the stewards of His money. Food for thought.
Lord Bless,
LT
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