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TITHE
IS PAYING OF TITHE COMPULSARY, BIBLE QUOTATION IF REQUIRED
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Permalink Reply by Larry on
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No, it is not. The Levitical tithe was abolished when Christians were not bound by the law ... Rom 3:19-20 and Galations 3:23-25.
Christian "giving guidance" can be found in 2 Cor 8:7-12; free will giving (3), not by commandment (8), giving from sincere love and desire of the heart (8,10,11) and in proportion to what we have (12).
You see, for a Christian, the idea is everything we have (physical and spiritual) is God's. To decide how much and to what the money He appointed us as stewards goes, we must be in prayer and rely on Him to guide us in the appropriate direction and amount. Once we have His assurance, then we cheerfully give, for we know it is to glorify Him and not ourselves.
Larry
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Brother Larry,
"You are clutching at straws."
It is this idea that eases the conscience of the $1.00 - $10.00 a week givers, who can well afford 20 times as much.
Just as the freedom from the law eases the conscience of those who continually break it.
In fact you are right when we allow our conscience to decide and when we do this,
we would really feel guilty of cheating God in our response to what He has accomplished for us.
The freedom from the law that Paul speaks of in Romans and Galatians concerns Salvation and has nothing to do with tithing. Your out of context.
Your "ole" friend in Christ ~ Ron.
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Hi Nelly,
While the New Testament does not speak of Tithing as such, yet we do believe that tithing is still necessary, just as it was in the Old Testament.
"Bring your full tithe to the Temple treasury so there will be ample provisions in my Temple. Test me in this and see if I don't open up heaven itself to you and pour out blessings beyond your wildest dreams." Mal 3:10
Notice that this verse comes from the last book in the Old testament. One would think that it may well be an injunction to follow on in the New Testament. If not then it is rather late too make such a wonderful offer when in fact Tithing was to close down in the New Testament.
Many have been surprised how well their finances run, when they give as much as they can.
God does not need the money to run a church. He simply wants to measure your own belief in His promises as found in Scripture.
Having said that let me continue.
Now to all who disagree and do not tithe, the New Testament tell us that "The labourer is worthy of his hire." Luke 10:7. What then do we expect the Pastor to live on when we invite him to watch over the flock in our church? Many leave it to dropping a dollar or ten and think that it is going to be sufficient. There are many who think that way, but do it in ignorance.
I suggest that all who do not tithe, to go to the Church Treasurer and ask him to point out the costs of running a church.
The phone alone that the pastor uses for the church will come as a surprise when the Bill is added up. The Petrol, and maintenance of the Church's car... Oh! The Church has not got a car.... The Pastor uses his own car to visit members. Then besides petrol, the church becomes responsible for it's upkeep. The insurance of the Church and the residence. Cleaning the Church, upkeep of the Church grounds, the list can become endless, never mind the electricity bill and the replacement of light bulbs in the church, the water account and the sugar and tea/coffee, that members have after service. Whoever drops a ten dollar note, once a week into the Collection plate, needs to become the Church Treasurer for one month. This person will experience another "New Birth" of enlightenment.
It is also no different in a larger church. One would think that if very member of the thousand members gave $10,00 the church would have $10,000.00. While that is true, sadly a large church has larger running costs perhaps 3 Pastors . Who knows.
Your friend in Christ ~ Ron.
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Recommend you both read "To God, with all our love" by Matthew Marx. He unravels the truth on tithing quite well.
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Not having read Mathew Marx's book, I cannot comment on it, but I assume that the verses you quoted would come from his book as well.
We see that the early New Testament church operated on socialistic principles. They sold all that they had and gave it to the church. (Acts 5) The only reason I can think that God does not insist on this today is that the early Church needed an immediate "Kickstart".
These disciples had all seen the risen Christ and were extremely eager to get the Church started. We see this in some businesses today, where a group of men get together to start a business. Once it is off the ground they are no longer required to give all. Had we had the opportunity of seeing and speaking to the Risen Christ personally, as these New Testament Believers had, I believe we would have done the same.
May I at this point give my personal testimony regarding the question of tithing.
When I first became a Christian, I was in a cycle of endless debt. A Christian approached me and suggested that the problem might well be, that I do not tithe. Being enthusiastic about my new found faith, I started to tithe.
What a pleasure and joy to find that within 6 months I was debt free and had money to spare. A small amount, but no doubt, money left over. No I never received an increase in salary and I never cut down on my expenses.
But what happened and still happens is, that everything I have to purchase, namely living expenses, food, petrol, car upkeep, etc. lasts long enough to see me through the month.
I fill my car with a fixed amount every month. This only takes the fuel gauge to three quarters full. I drive the car on that tank, the whole month, before I "top up" again at month end. May I add that I do not watch the petrol gauge anymore. If Widow Jones needs to get to hospital 30 KM away, the car gets us there and back as it will today.
This reminds me of another expense the church has. Namely, widows, orphans and the jobless. What good is a church that will close the door to their needs, when the church itself boasts:
"But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Phi 4:19 Please remember the promise is to your need and not your greed.
One might think that I believe in the "Prosperity Gospel" the TV evangelists boast about.
Personally I am disgusted by their behaviour. Those who fall prey to their requests forget that when the "Evangelist" asks for a "donation" he is speaking to millions of people. This income far out weighs the high cost of using a Christian TV station for 30 minutes. These Charlatans possess anything from personal Jets to exclusive homes and Hotel suites.
An example is Benny Hinn. He came to S. Africa and at the meeting he allowed his spokesperson to announce that God had told him, that everyone who donated a thousand Rand before the next two minutes were up, would become millionaires overnight. Credit Card Depository ATM's were waiting at the back and the people jostled each other to get to them. Ushers were there to receive Cheques. I think Benny Hinn has shot his bolt in being welcomed to S. Africa by the Christian church in the future.
Finally if you are going to Tithe to see if what I have said works, then you are bound to a penniless future. It is something that requires a complete change of heart towards sponsoring God's witness here on earth. If you have a spouse, it must be discussed and
prayed over. The prayer should not be to give you courage, but to give you the right reasons for wanting to tithe. Should you not have this change of heart I strongly suggest that you do not Tithe.
p.s. We are a small church in a small town, some 35 pensioner members.... Our Pastor accepts what the church coffers allow. He and his family are never in want and the church supports both a mission station and an African Church who (if you know Africa) are penniless.
We also support a group who roam the streets of the larger towns around us for homeless children and take them in - Feed and Dress them - until a home can be found.
At the moment I believe there are approx 25 children being supported and living there.
None of the pensioner members have a large income, but God has honoured us in that we have a healthy bank account - ready for emergencies - despite the expenses listed above.
I honestly believe and hopefully not seen to boast, that this church fills the requirements of a New Testament church.
(My time has run out and no time to check spelling and grammar - please excuse any faults)
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Permalink Reply by Charlene on
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wow ron your church is an excellent giver!!! a model example for churches everywhere!! God bless what you are doing for the children, the homeless and those in need and to be such a small church indeed i am not sure bigger churches even do this much! I must look into the things that my church does of this nature or start making some suggestions, as a christian body not one of us is supposed to lack! The Lord loves a cheerful giver and I pray that i empty out my pockets happily! I once heard a sermon that also happened to be a tv evanglist and he sd that its almost like planting a seed, how can you expect to reap anything without planting seeds and this applies to all types of seeds, planting seeds of kindness, seeds of faith, seeds of friendship, seeds of finance, seeds of love etc. amnd that you have to first plant those seeds to reap the full of harvest of the good fruits from it and you can be certain that if you are a cheerful giver the Lord will bless you bountifully in accordance with riches from heaven :)
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Ron
So sorry ... but you are so off base on this its hard to write a response. I suspect you think we are under the 10 commandments also.
Larry
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Hi Larry,
Let’s see now…..
I have no other gods but Yahweh,
I do not curse Him or use silly banter against His name.
If the Sabbath day is definitely Saturday then Yes! I do not keep the Sabbath.
When they were alive, I did respect my mother and father.
I have never murdered any one.
Nor do I sleep with any female other than my bride.
Stealing is not my scene.
I must admit I have at times coveted my neighbour’s car.
I used to tell lies, but do my best not to now.
I have never been a false witness.
So I guess all in all, I do believe the 10 Commandments.
But I believe these commandments and others, not for my salvation. Jesus Christ has already accomplished that. The commandments brought me to realise exactly why I needed a Saviour. They simply act as a mirror to show me who I really am outside of Christ
Jesus said, that if I broke one of them, then I have broken them all. So I guess with that in mind, I am still the miserable wretch, I was 50 years ago and could be considered worthy of damnation. Except that God no longer see's me, as I am covered by the Blood of Jesus, who is also my advocate seated next to the Father.
BUT again, it is the mercy and graciousness of God that provided the “Scapegoat”
who paid for all my past present and future sins. The “Scapegoat” was and is Jesus Christ.
Because all my debts in the form of sins have been paid in full, I can accept God’s further promise: “I will remember your sins, NO MORE and I will separate you from your sins as far as the East is from the West”
Finally…… Do I believe in the 10 commandments? You bet I do. Just as you do. They were responsible for bringing BOTH of us to the Cross.
Do I still try to keep the 10 Commandments? I surely do. The commandments help to keep the peace amongst the community in Port Edward whom I have to live with and be a witness to.
Still your friend in Christ ~ Ron.
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Permalink Reply by Rob on
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I would appreciate an opinion from any of you supremely educated people in Christ.
I am a new Christian. I was born again about a year ago.
As Ron mentions in his earlier posts. I have had a complete change of heart. I used to be as tight as the proverbial 'fishes backside' before I was saved.
Now when I tithe I find myself saying to God ' I give this gladly and I wish it could be more'. My problem is my wife is not saved, not a Christian and she gives me a bit of a tongue lashing when I tithe. It has got to the stage where I don't tell her. I don't lie, I just don't tell her.
So as you can probably see I am in a bit of a pickle.
I am torn as I feel like I am deceiving her but at the same time I just want to give all that I can.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
God bless
Rob
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Good morning Rob,
Should the Church members of your church be of the same mind as yourself, then your church should prosper. The word prosper as used here, means that they should be using that money, not to enrich the church in finances, but to give out in assisting those in the Church and also those in desperate need in the community.
Your church should also be encouraging missionary work amongst it's members. If this is undertaken properly, then it will also involve the use of finances. It cannot and should not be left to your Pastor alone - That was not what Christ expects from His Church.
When your church is operating on these levels, then the church becomes alive and the community around the church sit up and take notice.
Rob, it is important for you at this stage not to stir or create opposition, but to simply be an outstanding witness. What are the things you do not do around the house? Possibly even hate..... Well it would come as a BIG surprise if you started helping with the chores or whatever else would assist your wife. The Lord may even allow you to enjoy doing it..... :) Well... You did not enjoy giving money at first so maybeeee, He will let you enjoy this as well... :) But jokes aside if you start praying and looking into your life asking the Holy Spirit to help you become a different person, that others can see and become aware of.....WHO KNOWS what the Lord Will do, not only in your life, but in the lives of those around you. The saying is: "It is the service your hands provide and not the service provided by your lips, that can change the lives of people"
The Lord Bless you Rob and please keep in touch.
Ron
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Rob
First of all, let me assure you I am NOT a "supremely educated person in Christ"! But I feel I must attempt an answer, since you have just isolated the problem that ultimately always occurs when one attempts to follow rules (in this case tithing); a situation will arise where you will have to decide between following the rule or loving. You see, one reason we humans like rules so much is that they are easier to try to follow than it is to love another person. But that was never Jesus' message. My suggestion is to forget tithing and love your wife (in a way she can definitely see).
After you have convinced her of your true love (however long that takes), then you two together should address the amount of $$ to give to God's service (there are more ways to do that than give to a church). Regardless of what Ron says, the pattern given in the Bible to us Christians is to decide (with your wife) how much you want and can afford to give to God. As you grow in Christ and mature in your prayer life, there will come a point at which you realize all your resources are really God's and you are simply a steward appointed by Him over them. It is at that point when He utilizes your resources in the way He wants.
But your job in all this is to love ... God with all your heart, mind and intellect ... your wife as Jesus loved the church ... and others as yourself.
Larry
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Larry,
Thanks so much for your reply. It certainly put a different perspective on it for me.
I do love my wife as Jesus loved the church and I try every day to show her this. Loving God is a given. He saved me when everything and everyone else had turned away from me.
It is definately a sign of my immaturity that I should be torn/confused between what I should be doing when it comes to tithing. I will pray about it and let God show me what He feels it is I should do.
Thanks again
God Bless
Rob
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