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in IJohn 5:16 what is the sin that john is refering too
in I john 5:16 it refers to a sin that leads to death. what sin is he refering to?
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Permalink Reply by Larry on
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Carla
Everything you say is true. We are in the middle of a battle and need the armor of God.
Relative to the possibility of a believer somehow deciding to "unbelieve", it has nothing to do with a personal experience. It's just that to ignore the possibility means one must put "band-aids" on the Word (such as strange intreprations, not recognizing free will or ignoring what It says) so that one can avoid a clear meaning. As I have grown in Christ, I simply don't like to do that.
I have a very difficult time understanding how anyone who experiences the love of God and walks with Jesus could ever reach a place where they "unbelieve". For years, I couldn't accept it (like Ron and LT), but I have been given a gift for the use of inductive logic and the only inductive harmonization I have found of the Bible is to accept the possibility, no matter how incredulous it seems. To do so makes the Bible unified.
Larry
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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That is the point of the difference. For me the belief that one can develop "unbelief" causes the Bible to become ununified in my view. This is the crux of our difference.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Larry,
How do you read 1 John 5:1-13 and apply it to the context of Rev. 3:2-5?
LT
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hello Ron, LT and Larry....and anyone else in this conversation.... :)
Rom 8:5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 If your sinful nature controls your mind, there is death. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace. NLT
There will be many things which we do not have the answers to...and that is actually ok. I think that we can all agree on the following:
Phl 4:8 And now, dear brothers and sisters, let me say one more thing as I close this letter. Fix your thoughts on what is true and honorable and right. Think about things that are pure and lovely and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. NLT
Thankfully God is the Perfect Judge. HE knows each of our hearts, Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes everything to work together* for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.
Remain Joyful in the Lord and HIS Mighty Power.
In Him, Carla
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Hey Carla,
Long time, no talk :-)
Correct me if I am wrong, but I sense that you are concerned that this discussion may get heated or ugly and are trying to avoid that. Larry and I have already agreed that we disagree and that there are more important issues than the one discussed here. The conversation is civil and the kind of discussion that can be enjoyable to get into as long as everyone stays civil and no one starts to attack character. I already acknowledged that God gives the freedom to believe what one wants, He will sort it out in the end. Discussing it can be healthy for all invovled if we treat each other as brothers in Christ.
Ron and Larry can speak for themselves on this if they wish.
Thanks for caring.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Hi There LT :)....
yes...indeed! and indeed! Healthy discussions are great for leading to new understanding.
God Bless, Carla
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Carla
Thanks for your concern ... a true Christian sister. As LT said, he and I agree to disagree, but we all are loved by God and recognize that love. No human will ever understand everything God has placed in His word (at least not on this side), but I love to discuss it, for from discussions (ones of good will) comes understanding and growth.
I apologize to you, LT and Ron if at anytime during the emails I offended you. Just love to stretch the mind, especially when it comes to understanding the Bible.
Larry
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Permalink Reply by Deborah Sue Schenfeld on
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Kim,
So, I guess what all this discussion shows us is that even the best & most knowledgable Bible scholars don't agree on just what IS the 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit'. I believe that act involves speaking against the work of the Holy Spirit & attributing it to something else. (But who am I to say?)
I think it safe to say & lines up with the Bible, that once you are saved, you need to daily submit your life to God, repent of & not willingly continue in sin, ask for the fullness of the Holy Spirit, walk in love & forgiveness, read your Bible, ask for revelation & seek to run after God with all your heart, soul. strength & mind! The person who does these things, need not fear ever commiting it.
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Deborah,
It is not that simple. There are several factors to consider. These factors are what cause the uncertainty of the meaning of this verse. For example, the death referred to in this verse, is it spiritual death or physical. If one says "physical" or "spiritual," how can they be sure? There simply is not enough information given by John to be certain. If it is physical there are several sins that lead to death that would inhibit a person in regards to praying for that individual. Suicide is a sin that leads to physical death (I will not go into the spiritual implications here). There is no prayer left for that person once they have ceased to live in the flesh. If it is capital punishment for a murderer one can pray for their soul, but not their crime. Therefore, using just these two examples, in order to identify the sin one must be able to identify with certainty the death in which John refers to in this verse. If it is spiritual death then it would appear to be the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Regarding the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit there is another alternative as well. The ultimate sin that cannot be forgiven is the sin of rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit reagrding Jesus. For it is the Holy Spirit who reveals Jesus to us along with the Word of God. To reject this truth is calling the Holy Spirit a liar and leads one to an unrepented death with out acceptance of the Savior. Again, there are a variety of views on this subject. I believe in the one presented here as the unforgivable sin, the blasphame of the Holy Spirit.
Back to the original question that Kim posted. There is no simple answer, because we are not given enough information. We can be certain that the recipient of John's letter would have known what he was referring to.
I most certainly agree that if we are seeking after God and drawing near to Him we need not fear the whatever John is referring to.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Deborah
Must give an alternate side to what LT says.
In 1 John 5, John talks about spritual life in verses 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13, and 14. To think John switches to physical death in verse 16 I find a real stretch. It makes much more sense for the entire chap to be talking about spritual life and spirtual death and that the one sin that leads to death is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
If one accepts that, then blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can easily be understood as a believer finally moving to unbelief. Unlike LT below, I think the answer to Kim's question is easy ... it's "unbelief".
It also explains why God would be willing to blot some of the church at Sardis (believers) out of the Book of Life (salvation) ... Rev 3:2-5.
Larry
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