Weak Christians in these end days........

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Permalink Reply by Noreen Moyer on January 8, 2008 at 1:19pm

I have and am reading God's Holy Word daily and deeply studying it. That is why I am aware that He has (not I) condemned the gay lifestyle and the allowing of it is tragically destroying God's original intention of the one man/woman union for the procreation of the next generation. The gay cannot of themselves procreate but need "donor sperm" so a gay female can get pregnant. The enemy here is trying to intervene here what God put into place. You obviously feel it is all right for a child to have two fathers or mothers. I am deeply sorry for that. Ask yourself why has this gay lifestyle been so widely accepted? I can say (I am age 63) I can remember when that word gay or homosexual was only quietly whispered and never thought to be accepted. Back then all society felt as I now do. It was condemned......with no quibbles. Now it is so accepted that I stand forth as that weird one who hates the gays. See how far we have come??? Just replying to how all should feel that this way of living was looked down on..the gays had no rights and society did not allow them to "come out of the closet." Now they prance around in all openness. Rosie O'Donnell is raising children with her lesbian partner. Ellen DeGenerous is living openly with her lesbian partner and more celebreties are embracing this tragic one way to hell. They are role-models for the young to also live that way. Pretty soon it will be considered wrong for a woman to marry a man! Once that slippery slope is opened up it is hard to stop.

Permalink Reply by Moomins on January 8, 2008 at 5:28pm

Thats right noreen,God has condemmed the gay 'act' and not you,so tell me who has the right to judge them?We as christians choose to follow Gods rules as a way of life.However,along the way,we meet people who do not choose this way of life and this is where we need to act god like.Remember the phrase'what would Jesus do?' Jesus was very god like,radiating love and compassion to EVERYONE,although he was the son of god,the messiah,even he had no right to judge.The judging is left to the rule maker.We as christians can help people find other paths but we are not resopnsible for their actions.
Putting it really simply,say one of the commandments was;
'Thou shalt not pick thy nose'
One day you come across a terrible rebelious nose picker,you are horrified!!!
do you
(a)look down on this nose picker and preach to them about being condemmed to an everlasting hell?
or
(b)Take this person by the hand and say to them,'i know you really like picking your nose and you may find great pleasure in it...BUT...i know something else you may also enjoy,its called'using a handkercheif',i agree you may be uncomfortable at first and it may take a while to get the hang of,but i can assure you,in time you will find a better sense of pleasure from the hankercheif than from your finger,and there may be times when you struggle with nose picking,but because you have found the handkercheif you need never be afraid of falling because the hankercheif will always be there for you?

I know which approach i would use.....
If you choose the christian approach,then apply what greg has written in his last thread,i would hope you could find some understanding of the subject....

As for thinking its ok for kids to have two mums/dads.These days there are a lot of dysfunctional families,some have one parent, some have two,some dont have any.
What i do feel important is that a child is loved,you cannot pick one section of society and persecute them.

Yes i do find it weird that you 'hate' gays,as a christian,i feel, you should not be 'hating' anyone.
Just because someone struggles with same sex attraction,also does not mean thay have no rights in society and that they should be shut up in some kind of closet.
Why do you think,gays prance about in all openness.....mmmmm......i will tell you will i.Because of christians,who thought that by condemning and judging others they were acting like God,these christians beat up people, emotionally. (not christian).
Now what happens to people who go through emotional turmoil? They are beat for a while,then when they come through,they are stronger than ever,ready to take on the world.They prance around in all openness at their new found freedom and strength.
Whereas,if christians acted as they should,without judgement,there would not have been this 'eruption' of emotionally distressed people.
Christians who have this 'judging' attitude bring upon themselves unnecessary hardship.

I dont ever think it will be considered wrong for a woman to marry a man either.I do think that the institution of marriage has a more lax view,but i dont believe that is due to the gay movement.
Many straight couples dont get married these days,for reasons known to them.
A consenting man and woman have always been joined together in the eyes of the lord and i believe they always will.
I wouldnt mind reading this atricle from this chuck colson,he seems to have a very vivid imagination.........
blessings
moomins

Permalink Reply by Noreen Moyer on January 9, 2008 at 1:16pm

Moomins.............please reread my last post to you. I had stated very clearly that I hate the sin....I hate the sin and not the person. I despair for the person convinced that being gay is a normal way to be. It is not. It is a lie from hell that Satan set in place to condemn more to his kingdom. In both Testaments it is condemned by God. He hates sin....not the person but the sin and we, like Him must hate sin. Please get that straight and do not judge me for simply showing you what God Himself has said. We have drifted so far from His teachings that one, like me, who would support His rules and laws am also condemned. I have been trying to find where this way of living is condemned in both Testaments. It is there and I will try to find in Leviticus where it is and I think it is also in Romans. You can see what Satan has done to blind us to this terrible sin so widespread. Sorry I have offended you. I just wanted to make myself clear. I am not against the gay ones themselves but feel sad they are convinced of their way of living. To see innocent children raised by them so generations from now it will seem weird for men to marry women and this will happen from the further acceptance of this. This is far from God's desire. Go back to Genesis and read why Gold destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. For a man to "sodomize" either a man or woman is the worse kind of perversion. Look into what it means for a man to have sex with another man. It is even more perverted when two women do it. I will not go into it here but do look into it and maybe then you will share my aversion of this. Somehow we, God's children have to get the message out to these terribly deluded ones that there is a hell to shun and a heaven to desire and that their lifestyle is a one way ticket to hell. Hope I have made myself clear here.
I have found where in the Old Testament it is condemned by God. Remember He has condemned this sin and not the sinner unless he becomes apostate and refuses to turn to God and away from this perversion
See in Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 : "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them (both men) have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
The New Testament in Romans chapter 1 verses 26 and 27
26 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections : for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
The result of this embracing this way of living is that "they did not like to retain God in their knowledge" so "God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (verse 28). This is a spiritual cancer from Satan to destroy the very teachings and leading of our Father to not accept this sin but to show the way to the gays that they are in danger of suffering hellfire for living this twisted fashion. And that God is there to forgive them. To say or do nothing is the same as accepting.

Permalink Reply by Moomins on January 9, 2008 at 5:33pm

Thank you for your last thread..Please do not think i am judging you,i cannot judge anyone for i have no right to do that.What i am doing is being in slight disagreement with you about your approach in sinners and sin.You said in your last thread that you dont hate the sinner,only the sin.In the thread before that YOU said'Now it is so accepted that I stand forth as that weird one who hates the gays'.That stated to me that you hated the sinner.
Yes God does not like sin and for us to live within him,we also should not like sin.As christians,it is up to us to spread the word of the gospel,but we have to do it in a way that we do not scare the secular world away,it does say in the Bible we have to 'win' people(i will find the verse).If the secular world refuse Gods law,there is absolutely nothing we can do or say,God is the only one to condemn,judge.They are Gods laws,he will judge everyone,you will be judged and i will be judged,the only person with a true right to do this is God.
We have no right to say'he's living like that','shes doing this'.
We as christians want to please God so for our own sakes we try to live as he would want us to.unfortuately there are people who do not choose this way of life and there is nothing we can do about it.If they choose the one way to hell ticket,we cant change them(not by a forceful attitude).
I feel i am a living testimony to Gods work and to a christian way of dealing with sin.
Up until july last year,i was living a sinful life,i knew i had to change,i knew i needed God.I went to my pastor,whom i confessed all to.if my pastor had condemmed my sin,i would have ran a mile because i would have thought she was getting at me.She did not condemn,she welcomed me,prayed with me,helped me with asking God into my life.She showed me what a good life i could have as a christian.I threw myself into the Lord asked him into my life and HE has changed me in quantum leaps,i am now in a place i never thought i could ever be.I am a new creation.All because a good christian showed a little love,whilst still standing by her beliefs.Thats what we need more of.
Just a little love and an understanding,from personal experience,i can tell you it goes a long way......
love
moomins

p.s. you won't offend me,i love the debate....

Permalink Reply by Noreen Moyer on January 10, 2008 at 4:26pm

Moomins.........could you for me read your last message to me for ease of reading? It is not easy for you do not capitalize your "I"s when referring to yourself and you do not leave a space after the period at the end of a sentence. These English rules are there so the printed copy can be easily read. Pleas...please do not think I am criticizing for I just want to more easily read what you type.
This terrible cancerous sin of homosexuality is so very hard to excise. If an oncologous (cancer doctor) found a malignant tumor in his patient he would know to operate or let the patient die. We are to be spiritual doctors to the ones carrying this tumor that also blinds. Are we to let them fall into the second death or hell? This so concerns me for not many agree with me. This sin is really entrenched in today's society. How do we reach out to them without being offensive? Because the silence was there when homosexuality was in its infancy it had a chance to grow. Now it is normal. This is the worse sin to be dealt with in these closing years of the church age. It directly goes against God's basic laws. Is it right to kill or steal? Why not? Why is this sin all right? I am glad you do not mind the debate for I am just doing that with you.......in the love of Jesus

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on January 19, 2008 at 1:29pm

Noreen, our brothers and sisters in the first century faced worse.

The religious establishment was against them, the culture was against them and even some of those who initially joined the church turned against them. Yet, their message went out to the whole of the known world of their day and changed the culture of Pagan Greece and Rome within two generations. If one small group can do so much in one life time, so can we.

But we have to remember how they did it and how Jesus said to do it. They did not offer condemnation to the lost - they offered Salvation. They did not protest the government, or the culture. The preached the Gospel to every person they met. They opposed false doctrine with truth. But, what gave them the power to do it was prayer. The preacing is easy - the power comes from prayer.

If you see these things and understand how distressing they are, perhaps the Lord is telling you to go to war in the spiritual realm. Join with your sisters and commit to daily and weekly prayer for breakthroughs in specific areas - for the success of the Gospel and for your own spiritual growth. You may be surprised how fast you can see God bring change.

It is a spiritual battle for the souls of mankind. The victory has to start with us who call ourselves Christian. We cannot expect to impact anyone else unless we first are impacted and transformed.

- Scribe

Permalink Reply by Rori on January 19, 2008 at 3:39pm

WOW, Free Will is what I have been taught. We can't change anyone else and we should not allow ourselves to be brought to a place of such unrest in regards to the sin of others. I have been taught to pray for the lost, be prepared to witness for Christ in love and with hope not judgement, condemnation or anger. This is all revealed in the book of Revelations...this is the end time. Satan knows his time is short and he will do and say whatever it takes to get as many of us as he can. With anger in our hearts and minds he can get us. That is what he wants...I refuse to be taken down by him anymore. I know for me, I spent too much of my life being judgemental, angry and alone because I thought I knew how things should be. When I learned to mind my business, be grateful, thankful and willing my life made a 180 degree turn. I will pray for your peace of mind. That is all we can do. I remember how Jesus suffered in silence (and prayer) and today I find myself doing it alot. I fellowship alot with other believers like myself. I find it helps me get back to where I need to be...Peaceful and balanced.

God Bless you Noreen

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on January 19, 2008 at 4:12pm

Rori, Praise God for those who pray for the salvation of the lost! God showed me once how many people had prayed for me to believe. I was blown away!

You are right, being judgmental is not the path Jesus leads us to take; but rather to be ministers of reconciliation to God, who bring healing and change through grace. Being thankful, is a path straight to the heart of God.

One thing that I want to encourage you all: is not to be discouraged by what Satan wants you to believe. He is not in control. Yes, his time is short, but we can rejoice in that! The body of Christ will overcome the world. That is also in the the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ! Every believer is a light in this darkness. Everyone filled with the Holy Spirit is salt to a corrupting world.

We are overcomers, by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. You have the hope that those people are HUNGRY for. Whether they know it or not. Your honest and couragious witness is powerful in defeating the darkness. If it were not, Satan would not try to shut us up!

Be not discouraged! You are an agent of the Kingdom of God. Keep praying, and keep your eyes on Jesus.

Permalink Reply by Noreen Moyer on January 19, 2008 at 8:41pm

Scribe D'Nucov....... please take note of my name.................Noreen Moyer and my avatar is that cute little siamese kitty cat. Thank you for backing up my discussion. I apologize if I sound rough but it is so frustrating to see and hear how my Lord and Savior is being "dragged" through the mud by a new crop of atheists. "The Golden Compass"....one movie of three based on a trio of books written by English atheist book author Philip Pullman and he is only one of many.
Well, the witness is that we must be doing something right or Satan would not be working overtime to bring us down.

Permalink Reply by Samuel on January 19, 2008 at 4:36pm

This discussion reminds me of the church in Laodicea. They had health, wealth, and prosperity. Probably ran three services on Sunday with feel good sermons about health, wealth, and prosperity. The congregation would go home none the wiser, living sinfully the other six days, with no impact on their community, or their jobs, or their government. Their motto, "live and let live". Anyone remember how Jesus responded to that church? Rev. 3:15-17 states"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! so, because you are lukewarm-neither hot nor cold-I am about to vomit you out of my mouth. You say,'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked."
So that brings us to this discussion. What are we as the body of believers to do in these last days? We stand. We put on the full armor of God, and we stand. Those who live in darkness can't see their filth until the Light shines on them. My experience tells me that it is usually a painful, ego crumbling, pride shattering invasion. But God calls us to reach out to the world, to go deep behind enemy lines and proclaim the truth. Look at the reaction that the apostles got. They were spit on, stoned, skewered, ridiculed, and jailed amongst other things. Or look at Christ himself. For every one person He reached with the Good News, how many others scoffed at Him. Even the "religious" leaders of the day wanted nothing to do with Him. Our mandate, then; proclaim the Good News in a dying world regardless how people "feel" about it. People ARE seeking for some kind of truth here, but sadly most receive a counterfeit, "feel good, live and let live" truth. It placates their selfish egos and desires and leads them straight to destruction and damnation. Noreen is right, their blood will be on our hands if we don't speak out now.

Permalink Reply by Noreen Moyer on January 19, 2008 at 8:33pm

Well said, Samuel. Question and this scares me the answer I feel I would get.....how many of you would lay down your life for Jesus? Some of us will have give the ultimate sacrifice that so many martyrs have done. I fear our very lukewarmness will leave too many unable to stand strong to walk through the river Jordan that the good name of Jesus would be represented by us ambassadors. If I sometimes sound rough it is bacause I weary of seeing how many life up Satan and his works that bring eternal with him in hell. Satan has and is doing a good work of holding most of God's children back from speaking. We fear we will "upset the applecart." So we stand silent and witness the sinful lost fall into an eternal hell.
So, thank you again, Samuel for joining in my discussion.

Permalink Reply by Moomins on January 20, 2008 at 5:15am

Samuel and noreen, why do you protest so much. If you want to serve the Lord and be like he wanted us to be when he created man,i can assure you that you are going the wrong way about it. God did not create man for us to end up like some kind of vigilante race 'arresting' every sinner. Yes God wants us to be like him, although, to be perfect is impossible. He does want us to go out there and spread his word and help save the lost, but not by condemnation, by love and prayer. Read your Bible and understand it please. Look at the way Jesus treated those who 'sinned', he did not give them the wrath of the Lord. He got to know them, love them and show them that the Lord loved them also.
Im sure both of you have heard the saying 'putting the fear of god' into someone, which really means to scare them. That is what many christians are inadvertantly doing by thinking it is their place to enforce Gods laws. (which it is not).
Try for a change putting the 'love of god' into someone and see the difference.....

Like I have already said before and will reitterate to you. Last year, I was a terrible mess, my life of sins, I could not write down for the list was endless. I turned to my pastor and gave her my whole truths. Now, if she had reacted towards me, the way you are reacting to 'sinners', I can assure you, i would either have kept on in my life of 'sin' or i would have been dead within weeks. Is that really what you want to achieve?
I can say, she reacted with love, accepted me as I was, she showed me there was another way and slowly introduced me to Gods love.
I now lead a completely different life, a life within the Lord, a life i could never have imagined.
Now, is that not what we as Christians should be trying to achieve?

So, by all means, put on your full coat of armour, go out there and make a stand, but do it with love in your hearts, not a spear in your hands......

would love to hear from you
moomins.x

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