TITHING QUESTIONS

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Permalink Reply by trina on August 19, 2008 at 8:59pm

Hi Nancy, read malachi 3:8-12 a scripture on tithing. I can't see you believing you can fix your financial situation without God. Don't you know that God is more than able to bring you out of financial distress if you only trust him, if you keep doing it your way you'll never be able to give him what is his, cause you're trying to do it . Let God be God, your only job is to OBEY. It's not your business how he's going to do it just let him, he knows what's best. I'm a living witness that God is able to fix your debt I've been at the point where I thought I would lose my home to foreclosure, but no matter how bad the situation got my husband and I continued to pay tithes and give offering from whatever we had, and God turned it around. I'm praying for you. With Godly love, Your sister in christ, Trina

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 20, 2008 at 8:13am

Trina's response is not necessarily a popular answer in our society today, but a very solid biblical answer. This is one area where God tells His people to "test" Him in this. Trina's is a positive testimony as well to God's provision and faithfulness. I can also atest to God providing during difficult times. It does not mean that it will be easy, but God's path is the right one.

A number of years ago I lost almost everything. In the midst of my struggle, God broke me of a love for money and moved me to a place where He was preparing to use me 6 years after that. I can see it now, but was not privy to it until the time had passed and can now look back and see His hand all over the place during my struggles for my good. Sometimes loss is a positive thing, at least in my case this is true.

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by Nancy on August 20, 2008 at 9:56am

Thank you for your responses, Trina and LT. While going through this financial disaster, I surrendered to Jesus and let Him take over the wheel. I do place my trust in the Lord to help me.

I believe in my heart that I lost my second job (which was on Sundays) and my husband taking a pay reduction, because we were working ourselves to death to get the finer things in life, was a circumstance that God allowed, for us to call on Him. Yes, I have sinned for the love of money and pride, both of which I have now lost, but on the same note, I'm much happier! My love and desire for very expensive collectibles fizzled when I surrendered to Him. As for pride, well, I always thought I was better than everyone else and thought Bankruptcy was for failures and I have a mind-set that I never fail in anything. I just go through each day, praying and reading the Word, and letting God lead me to what I have to do next...and it's bankruptcy. And, it is for the greater good. He has forgiven my sins and will be giving me a fresh start financially and and a fresh new relationship with Him. This, I am so thankful for! I belong to a church now and thank God for what I have.

I will take your advice and give as much as I can at every offering for God loves a cheerful giver. Thank you for your prayers.

God Bless you all and have a wonderful day!
Nancy

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Permalink Reply by christopher lingk on August 20, 2008 at 10:52pm

Hey nancy,
I would tend to agree with rick's response in this matter. I often see churches make people feel "guilty" if they don't tithe. Now, it's certainly true that God desires us to be wise in our finances. And, we should always trust in God to take care of our needs, even when it "looks" impossible. I myself have had times when I thought.......how am I ever going to make it through ?? But, God has been faithful to my family in making sure we have what we NEED. Not always what we might WANT, but he provides for our needs.
Amazingly, I've always noticed something interesting about the early church the apostles started shortly after Jesus' death. The bible states that all the believers sold what they had and gave to the apostles so that it was 'dispersed' to the believers who had NEED !!...
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. Acts 2:44-45.
I've always wondered WHY the church never asks those in the congregation if anyone could use help financially ?? Because that is what they should do is help those in need, right ??
Quick story...A friend of mine at work said a woman in his church gives religiously every week, (tithing). Well, she ran into some financial woes and wasn't going to make her rent one month and went to the church and asked them if they could help her so she wouldn't get evicted. She only needed about 200 dollars to make it through the month. Well, the "leaders" of the church told her they were sorry, and couldn't do that !! So, here is a woman who has given WELL in excess of that amount to the church over the years, and when she's in need, the church turned their backs !! My point is.......if the church is more concerned with how much money they can GET as opposed to who they can HELP.......they are not worthy of receiving those tithes for the money belongs to God and His works. NOT for the church to increase their coffers !!
So, give to God in faith. The amount matters not to God, but that you give out of love for doing what God desires. Maybe you can only afford $1.00. That's ok. Because God can see that it is used for one who has NOTHING. If the church tells you that you MUST give a specific amount, I'd look very closely at that church and pray to God to reveal if that church is founded on Love and Truth.
I have faith that God will meet your needs nancy. Cheer up my sister. Let us know how things go and God bless.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 21, 2008 at 4:29am

This is an age old argument that will have people in several different camps regarding the issue. The issue is not about money, but faith and obedience. God will not turn His back on one that does not tithe, but has told His people to test Him on this issue and will bless them when they do. This does not mean that we will not go through a pruning stage in life, but that God will order the events accordingly to guide us to where He wants us to be and we will be given all that is needed to get there. God has from early on asked for us to give from our first and best fruit, not our lame or last fruit.

Regarding the church that refused to help the lady mentioned by one poster, that church is wrong. Do not make the mistake of assuming that all churches act that way. The church where I am at has housed people in hotels, fed others and clothed others that don't attend our church without expectation, except that God will bless us for the act of love demonstrated toward others. We have helped families with rent, utilities and clothed children going back to school. Bad examples do not negate the good ones, nor should they over shadow the positive work of God that is taking place around the world.

Regarding a father's expectation. When my dad gave me money to go to school and pay for my school lunch there was an expectation that I would do with the money what was expected. If I chose to spend the money differently and he found out He would have been upset. One aspect of tithing is understanding that all that I have is His, not mine. He has blessed me with it and has asked for me to respond in obedience and faith.

I do not advocate bankruptcy except as a last resort. This you need to pray about and trust God to guide you.

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by Pastor Bob B on August 21, 2008 at 6:06pm

Nancy you said that your church only asks for $12.00 from my family for an offering. I do not think any one should tell you how much to give. God wants us to be cheerful givers and not giving out of compulsion.
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:7

God wants us to give joyfully from our hearts.

When we are going beyond the love and our giving has nothing to do with worship, but has become a bitter offering to God, then we need to do some soul searching.

God wants us to be generous, giving people, some people have little money to give , but they willfully volunteer their time serving the local body faithfully. This is giving. How much is your time worth.

But giving and serving must be out of the overflow in our lives or it will be short lived.

God is always looking at our hearts, if you can give ten dollars, and give it joyfully, then give.

Don't ever let anyone ever make you feel pressured to do something that you know in your heart is wrong. Don't allow some one to manipulate you with fear that you will be cursed if you don't tithe.
I am sorry that some ministers think they can exploit people with fear tactic to get them to open their pocket books.

As we grow in the Lord we will become more generous, less self centered, and will want to give, so why doesn't the focus stay on maturing the believers and let God deal with this issue?

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 22, 2008 at 7:07am

Points to Ponder
Two Biblical Principles
There are two principles given in Scripture that often get confused. This confusion often leads to an attempt to combine them as one principle. There is the principle of “tithing” and the principle of “freewill offerings and special gifts.”

“You must not eat in your own towns the tithe of your grain and new wine and oil, or the firstborn of your herds and flocks, or whatever you have vowed to give, or your freewill offerings or special gifts.” Dt. 12:17

Many struggle with the idea of 10% and yet history teaches us that often the Israelites gave as much as 33 to 35%. Their offerings includes the 10% tithe and upwards to additional 25% in freewill and special offerings.

Is Tithing a New Testament Principle?
This topic has been debated many times and I do not propose that I will settle it. While an argument can be made that the New Testament never clearly teaches it, one can also state that it never negates it. Is it necessary for the New Testament to clearly affirm a command that was already given? Or would it only need to negate it if it were to no longer standing as was the case of the eating of various meats when God lowered the animals to Peter and told him to get up, kill and eat (Acts 10:11-13)? If one wishes to show some evidence of reaffirmation we can look to Matthew 23:23.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.”

First Fruit Versus Overflow
This deals with two different principles. The tithe calls for our first fruit, today most of us do not grow fruit or crops, we earn money. Yet, money is not the issue. The issue is giving to God a tenth of what He has given us as an act of obedience and faith. Freewill offerings should come from our overflow. When we relegate the gift (tithe) to our overflow we are giving God our leftovers and not are first and best. Tithing is a spiritual discipline that God guarantees us that He will bless those who practice this spiritual principle. (See Malachi 3:10)

What Happened in the Book of Malachi?

“"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, `How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.” (Mal. 3:8-10)

In Malachi 1:8 and 13 they are accused of bringing blemished offerings.

Their disobedient actions displease God and have consequences.

What if One Does Not Tithe Today?
We are in the time of “grace.” God is not going to bring condemnation upon His own children (Rom. 8:1), but He does discipline His children (Heb. 12). What might the discipline be for ignoring or refusing to follow the principle of tithing? We can be sure that the promise given to one who does tithe will not be given to the one who does not. Beyond that, it is for the Lord to say.

Cheerful Giving
There is no doubt that God loves a cheerful giver. He desires us to give with joy in our heart and with recognition that our giving goes to further the work of God. Some would say that God does not need our money, for He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. This is true, and He owns what we have as well. He has chosen to fund the work of His church through His people. He gives to us and we give to His work. We are tested to see if we are going to be good stewards of our “talents” that He has left with us.

There are some spiritual principles that God has given to us to carry out that are not always embraced and joyous initially. He does not ask us to wait until we find it joyful to act upon the principle, but to be obedient. Most often the greatest joy comes once obedience to the principle is practiced.

Is the Bible an Instruction Book or Catalogue?
When we look at scripture, do we see it as our spiritual guidebook for life or do we see it as a spiritual catalogue? Spiritual guidebook is both an operating manual and a survival guide. A spiritual catalogue allows one to pick and chose which options they like. If we ignore tithing, then what do we chose next to ignore? Where does the slope end or does it? I know that this sounds legalistic, but is far from it. Living for God is not a pick and chose, but a desire to follow His Word and will for our lives as designed by Him. Drawing closer to God, as we are commanded, requires obeying His Word:

“Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me” (Jn. 14:23-24)

How the Tithe is Used Does not Determine Whether One is to Give or Not. It May Determine Where the Tithe May Be Given.
Many today have issues regarding the church “institution” as some would call it. They look to the abuses and misuses and offer that as reason to not give or even be a part of a local church group. The abuse and misuses, though a lot less than many would propose, does not negate the principle of bringing the tithe into the local storehouse. If the group one is associated with is mishandling the funds they need to be addressed. If they will not change then one should change churches, but do not assume all are like the bad ones.

Pressure from Anyone Is Wrong.
Any church or pastor that pressures one into giving is wrong. To teach the principle is biblical, but to pressure or try and extort funds is not scriptural. As the pastor of our church I do not know what anyone gives. Only our treasurer knows. No one is ever confronted about not giving enough or even giving at all. I teach the principle of tithing and we give opportunity to share freewill offerings for various ministries, locally and abroad and for special needs.

Might I also state that we do not know if the poster of this topic went to their pastor and asked about the tithe, showed their income and was told that if they desired to follow the principle of tithing that it would be $12 a week/month? Maybe they were pressured. Maybe the poster will clear this up for us as to whether they were instructed or pressured.

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by Pastor Bob B on August 22, 2008 at 8:23am

John MacArthur

Does God require me to give a tithe of all I earn?
Answer

Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government (always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary).

The issue has been greatly confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel.

Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite's tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today's income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to operate the nation.

All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary (cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no percentage or amount was specified.

New Testament believers are never commanded to tithe. Matthew 22:15-22 and Romans 13:1-7 tell us about the only required giving in the church age, which is the paying of taxes to the government. Interestingly enough, we in America presently pay between 20 and 30 percent of our income to the government--a figure very similar to the requirement under the theocracy of Israel.

The guideline for our giving to God and His work is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: "Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver."

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Permalink Reply by Nancy on August 22, 2008 at 8:24am

Thank you, all, for your input.

I absolutely want to tithe, and from reading your responses, I feel a burden lifted off my shoulders.

When I received my church offering envelopes with an amount I was pretty shocked. But, then again, the envelope does state what that money will go towards...which is nice. I am actually relieved with the amount they recommend. I just thought that 10% was what makes God happy and was the biblical law. That's where my confusion kicked in. I spoke to God about tithing and He knows that in my heart I want to give more and I eventually will. It's more out of guilt that I want to give more for foolishly spending the money God has provided me in the past. I'm a baby Christian and I'm sure God is more than elated that I'm taking the path he wants me to follow. Even tithing, just a little, is a big baby step in growing in my new relationship with Him. Thank you, all, for your responses and God bless you and your family a hundred times over.

Nancy

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Permalink Reply by David Needham on August 22, 2008 at 11:55am

"Tithing" (in quotes because it is purely an Old Testament principle--not repeated in the New Testament, and therefore misunderstood today in the 21st Century) was a support system for the Old Testament Jewish Levitical Priesthood. It was a way for the 11 other tribes to support the 12th tribe, the tribe of Levi.

This 12th tribe had to give up its inheritance to land in order to obey the commands of God placed upon this tribe.

The "tithe" was used to support this tribe, and also the "tithe" was used to atone for sin.

Jesus Christ died upon the cross, and sin was nailed to the cross. Jesus IS our high priest. The Old Testament practices which dealt with sin, and a "priest" do not flow through the cross, or cross over from the Old Testament dispensation, to the New.

The "tithe" is therefore defunct, and obsolete. If it were to be practiced in our day, it would be a dead work.

Having said that, many people today want to "give." I support giving all day long, and in fact i believe that we owe ALL we have to Jesus, not just 10%.

When the rich man came to Jesus, Jesus didn't instruct him to "tithe," but to go and sell what he had, and give ALL to the poor.

Many people who truly follow Jesus, and don't "tithe," but give, give way more than 10% of their income to worthy causes, the poor, the widows, or homeless, etc.

Another problem with the modern church system is that "tithes" from people go to pay for expensive buildings, salaries, benefits for staff, etc. The Apostle Paul never took things like that, he worked with his hands, and only approved of collections for the saints in poor places, and this only one time (I believe) in the N.T. This was not expected on a regular basis, and it was voluntary.

"Tithing" as a way of supporting the modern church structure is wrong for many reasons, but I have named a few of them here.

Be a giver, and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in your giving.

Its all about hearing the still small voice of the Holy Spirit, and obeying Him.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 22, 2008 at 1:09pm

I usually do not find myself disagreeing with MacArthur, but do in this case. I believe he has taken the government view out of context and the giving to God as only voluntary as incorrect, especially relating to the O.T..

Unless I missed something somewhere the idea of the tithe being a sin offering is incorrect. The priests would give a tenth of what they received as their offering unto the Lord, but this is not the same as posted above. Therefore, the idea that the cross negated the tithe by tying it to sin is not applicable.

Regarding Paul working with his hands and supporting himself is partly true. He did work with his hands to help support himself, but also received aid from other churches to carry on his work:

2CO 11:7-9 "Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge? I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you. And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so."

The idea that many give way more than 10% I believe to be true, but how many more give way less than 10%. John Piper has an interesting view on this. It is not about deciding how much of what God has given us do we give, but how much will we decide is acceptable to keep? Shall we say to God thank you and keep 90%? (paraphrased by me).

Why do so many stand against the church structure that has done so much to advance the kingdom? Many of the early major universities in the U.S. find their beginnings were initiated by the church. How many hospitals, schools, clinics, orphanges, agriculture and irrigation help have been funded by the work of the traditional church. How many relief efforts have been organized and carried out in times of natural dissastre? How many have come to Christ through the joint effort of traditional churches around the world?

In my view tithing is a principle that guides one and one that comes with a promised blessing.

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by Alan on August 22, 2008 at 9:46pm

The first thing I would ask is if you are having a hard time where is your local church? One of the main calls of the church is to take care of the brethren.
There is an order in the world of giving and most people lump everything into a thing called a tithe. The tithe is for the support of the poor in the family of Israel and anything else. The use of that money to support a structure is completely out of context. The third year the giver was supposed to hold a feast for those less fortunate the money never even made it to the temple.
We are required under the new life to give all that we have not just 10%, if you want to live under the law they actually gave 24% by the time it was all done. God has given you funds to advance the Kingdom of God not to squander them on pleasures. We all make mistakes with the handling of finances, to me the bigger mistake is to fall prey to the giving of indulgences to a system and not listen to the plan that Jesus is laying out for you to have freedom from money and gain wealth.

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