All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Who goes to hell? Who goes to heaven?
I'd like us to look at the following verses and then I'll point out why my question and maybe someone knows some other verses that might give some more information I've missed that might help clarify this.
- Deuteronomy 1:39 And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.
- James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
- Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
- John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
- John 14:6 “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, except through Me.”
- Acts 4:12 “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
- Luke 18:26-27 Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
- John 17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
- John 10:29 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
- Genesis 15:6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
- Psalm 32:1 Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
- Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
- Romans 1:18-20 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
- Romans 7:8-9 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
- John 15:22-25 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’
There's always the debate as to whether there is an age of accountability. And as much as I like the information I usually find at GotQuestions, I disagree with their assessment. They claim Scripture is clear and that we're sinners at birth and even newborns go to hell if they die at birth. No wonder some people believe God is cruel! The first 3 passages above actually provide the evidence of the age of accountability and I find they're perfectly clear on this.
Secondly, we know that numbers 4-6 above tell us how to be saved after reaching accountability by going through Christ.
Through #7, we know that only God chooses who He reveals Himself to. He is the only one who makes salvation possible. Jesus Himself bears this out in 8 & 9.
And prior to Christ, God also clearly counted some as righteous as He did Abram in #10.
So only God forgives our transgressions and doesn't hold us accountable until we know. Numbers 11 & 12 say sins can be forgiven. And we can believe in God because He reveals Himself through His creation as told in #13.
So now comes my question...
Knowing that:
- God is the only one who chooses whom He will save
- He counted some as righteous based on their faith in Him
- We know of Him through His creation
- He sent Jesus to earth to be the final sin sacrifice and give us a free gift by believing in Him
- Even Jesus couldn't choose us but God chooses who He gives to Him...
So now go back up and read numbers 14 & 15. You might already see by this what I'm getting to.
I've always believed what is taught, that no one gets to heaven unless they believe in Jesus and repent, but only if they're accountable. But in seeing all this, could it be possible that God still doesn't hold those who don't know accountable?
Bear with me here...
Unless there's something in Scripture I haven't seen yet, in every passage I've seen hell being referenced, it has to do with the wicked. Even Abraham pleaded with God for anyone who was righteous in Sodom. And we know God judges the heart.
So could it just possibly be that those who haven't heard of Christ yet still believe in a creator, who sin like all of us but aren't choosing to act wickedly, could they still fall under God's mercy and choosing by what's in their heart, and that He might count them as righteous?
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Permalink Reply by Paul M. Dufey on
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At the age of six. before I could read, I saw my first book or at least the first book I remember. I asked what it was and my step-father told me it was a Bible. I asked what a Bible was and he said, “It tells us about God.”
“Who’s God?” I asked. He then told me that God is the one who made everything.
“Everything?”
“Yes”.
“Did he make this house?”
“No but he made the trees we use for wood and the iron we use for nails. He made everything this house is built of and we built it.”
I got that. I walked outside and looked up at the sky. It was a beautiful blue with fluffy white clouds floating over. The trees had fruit hanging on them as did the grape vines. The grass was green and everything looked as it does after a spring rain. At that moment I knew there is a God and He is awesome. What if it had been a dreary rainy day? I think I would have seen His hand in that also, as I do now. For a moment I felt His presence and from that time to now I have wanted to be with Him.
While I knew of the presence of God I knew nothing about Him and I sinned as all men do. At the age of 32 I was on my way to becoming an alcoholic. That’s a nice word for drunk or sot or souse as they were called in those days. On October 11th of 1973 I surrendered to Christ after reading the New Testament. How strange that I had not read it sooner.
Based on what I have learned of God from His Word I believe that He will lead all to His son who are or will be repentant; all who believe that He is and He is a rewarder of them that believe in and accept Him.
I have been told, though I cannot confirm the source, that a tribe of natives in Africa had become tired of their gods of stone that did them no good. They did however believe in the existence of a God and they gathered in a group and the chief of the tribe prayed that this God would make Himself known. As he was praying Doctor Livingston stepped out of the jungle and his interpreter explained what was going on. Doctor Livingston then through his interpreter told them about the Christ. Is this story true? I don’t know but it gives a good example of how God can and will work in the lives of men. -
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I'm still looking up the Livingston story. He was a missionary to Africa. I found that so I wouldn't doubt that's what happened. I read that he died in a hut on his knees praying.
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Romans 10
1. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7. Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!As I said before I did not surrender to God until I had read the New Testament. John 1:12 stood out. As many as receive him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God. Then under the preaching of a missionary I surrendered to God.
If we go He will supply souls. If we are rejected it is on those who reject.
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As to should we witness I provide the following scriptures. If there are any questions feel free to ask and I will give the best answer I can. However I confess I don't know everything and don't claim to. I only give my interpretation of what I read. Thank you
Acts 1
1. The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2. Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3. To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4. And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, you have heard of me.
5. For John truly baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, will you at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7. And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in his own power.
8. But you shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and you shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.Jesus says ' shall be' not might be or should be. it appears a definite thing.
Matthew 241. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.God is responsible for calling the lost.
Jesus paid the sin debt. All that accept Him as Savior and Lord shall be saved.
We are responsible to be witnesses to ALL the world.
There is no one who would accept Christ who isn't given the opportunity to hear the Gospel.
We are not responsible to save but to witness.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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I don't understand why you're saying to witness. I'm talking about age of accountability or those who die before hearing the Gospel. We are to witness. It's just a different conversation.
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I apologize. I didn't make myself clear. I was actually responding to Keith's last paragraph. I understood him to say that if people can be saved without hearing the gospel then it might be better not to preach the gospel to them who have not heard.
As for the age of accountability I've already said all I have to say on the subject. Thank you.
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It's Ok. I sometimes go off without thinking things through myself. Have a Merry Christmas and the Lord be with you. By the way this is my first attempt at discussing things on a forum so I don't know my way around very well. I will try to say things in a way that clarifies my meaning. God Bless.
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You're doing fine Paul. It can definitely take getting use to & learning how to reply to what comment. When the discussions get long, it can get really confusing. Hang in there brother. You'll get use to it.
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Re: #2, Abraham was saved because of faith, even before Christ. So this is where I have that question. Even looking into it hasn't given me any answers. One of the mysteries of God I suppose.
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