All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
One That Has Turned Away
I've wondered this ever since Ray Boltz said publicly that he is gay & left his family. Ray wrote some AMAZING songs during his walk with Christ. After he turned to the world & away from Christ, where does that place the songs? For instance, would you be comfortable singing them or soloists singing them at your church? Were the songs written through the Spirit & that same Spirit lives through them regardless of the path that the 'messenger' took?
Another thought as well. LakeWood Praise Team has put out some incredible music. Israel Houghton use to help lead this team. We also know the lead pastor of this church & the stands him & his wife take or I should say don't take. Israel has also been a public figure over the past several months in some of his life choices & has stepped down from his role or asked to step down one. That story is sketchy because one article says they haven't asked him to leave & he chose to & another article said they asked him to leave. So, where does that place the music? Is it of Christ? I know there are those that hate this type of music period. I'm not referring to their tastes but how the Lord sees these things. Do you feel it's the one singing it that makes the difference & was the Lord in it to begin with? The struggle is real. lololol
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Truth is truth, even when found in songs. The messenger may be corrupt, but if the message is true it stands as true regardless of the messenger.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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Do you find yourself kind of drawing up when you hear a song written by someone that has fell by the wayside? I'm sure this is the humanness of me to feels that way.
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Permalink Reply by pfuller on
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Agree - truth is in the message, the messenger is merely the vessel used to deliver the truth.
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Permalink Reply by Mary O on
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Sobering thoughts. Are my actions and words pleasing God? They are putting themselves and the world before the Lord.
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:62)
I know the Lord forgives all of us when we fall and confess our sins and ask forgiveness. I think of the persons you mentioned as disciples and having put their hand to the plow. I see our Lord's love but He also set clear expectations.
God's love,
Mary
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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It certainly is sobering as Mary has said.
Honestly, I didn't even know who he was. I had to google his name.
Whenever I hear these things, I just can't help but remember that it's not the end of their story... as long as he's still alive, there's time for him.
We're taught that a little yeast leavens a whole batch of dough... Yeast of course is symbolic for sin. When we allow a small amount of sin in the church, it infects the body...even if it's just with apathy, which is just as damaging as pride.
1 Corinthians 5
5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
6 Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? 7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[d]
We can't really know if he ever truly believed. He's walking in disobedience, his lifestyle shows us that...but I wonder if he has a 'religious' understanding of Jesus, but not a personal revelation. It sounds to me like he needs to meet Jesus, but I don't know the man, I didn't even know who he was. How can someone who knows Jesus, leave Him?
1 John 2
15Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
If he never truly knew the Lord, then he can be treated as a non-believer, and the gospel needs to be preached to him.
If he did know the Lord perhaps he has temporarily decided that gratifying the flesh is more of a payoff then following Christ, but if that is the case, then I can't imagine him knowing the Lord in the first place... Why would someone who knows the Lord willingly give up the peace, fellowship, and comfort that goes along with it?
We can sometimes be quick to judge and condemn (not saying you are), but we just don't have enough information.
One thing I am learning is that people are generally terrible communicators, and are (for the most part) not able to express everything that's in their hearts or on their minds. ....And if they try to, we generally don't have the time, interest or love enough to listen to them.
I hope and pray that I personally will grow to love and care for people as Jesus does. If I were Ray's friend, I hope I would have the courage to sit down and really talk to him...take the time to help him discover what is truly going on. It's always deeper than we can know or see. If we will prayerfully take the time to really talk to people and find out what's going on-- they might just open up, or even have a personal revelation as to why they are feeling that way or having the struggles they're having. We're in a spiritual battle, and our enemy loves to take down the Christians. It immobilizes us when that happens because we're left with thinking... Who can I trust? Non-believers look at the fallen Christians and scoff...
How would the world look if we judged less and loved more?
It's easy to speak the truth, but not so easy to speak it in love.
Blessings, Carla
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It's easy to speak the truth, but not so easy to speak it in love. - I actually don't have an issue with this one. Now, I use to. I use to slam people but not any more. I haven't for probably about 15 years & if I do, I feel like dir & ask forgiveness.
I know you've heard of some of his songs The Anchor Holds, Thank You for giving to the Lord, Watch the Lamb, I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb, The Altar - you ought to youtube them. Beautiful, beautiful songs. I'm guessing you've heard at least a few of them.
I may not have made my discussion clear but allow me to try to do a better job. What I was inquiring about was the music these folks made WHILE walking with the Lord. That excludes LakeWood because they are still 'walking with the Lord' per them. Though we're told to judge those on the inside, this wasn't what I was attempting to do here. I just wanted to know about the music.
It's about the music they made while walking with the Lord.
As far as information with Ray, it's pretty clear about him. Nothing is misunderstood with his choices. He, himself, has made his stance clear. I know we all fall. Mercy knows I have. I was married & ran around on him & also divorced. I was a drunk, drug addict and a ho. I had a child out of wedlock & the list goes on. All of this while being a saved child of God. So, I'm like Paul, the greatest of sinners. The difference between me & Paul is I was saved, Paul wasn't.
I've prayed for Ray many times because the Lord was so dominant in his life at one time that there is hope just by his previous walk that he will return some day. I do know he's gotten caught up in churches that have accepted this lifestyle & say it's OK. So, if he gets out from under these teachings & seek the Lord for himself, he'll return to the Truth. I'm not a friend of his & can't sit & talk to him but I'm guessing he had a strong circle of friends that talked to him - including his wife & family. Mercy knows, I've talked sat & spoken with several who have strayed & prayed for them & with them. The main point was the music that was made beforehand - not the life they are living presently. Most of the time, I just choose to let people live their lives. Heck, I live in California. I have no choice. If what they do doesn't leak into the life of my family, I'm good.
I also ask about LakeWood which is Joel Osteen's church. I love their music too BUT it is Joel Osteen's church. Anyways, I feel I somewhat have my answer.
Hope this helps explain myself a little clearer.
How would the world look if we judged less and loved more? We would have a whole lot of loving sinners. ROFL
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I realize I didn't really answer your question at all... :-)
A lot of people also have problems with Hillsong praise music.... they say certain things about the teaching of that church, so they have decided to ignore the worship as well.
I don't really agree with that. Hillsong really knows how to write worship music. Jesus is at the centre of all their songs. They sing about repentance from sin and God's goodness, forgiveness and grace.
I googled the song 'thank you' ...Yes, it's beautiful. I do recognize it.
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I'm surprised. I had Thank You sang at my mama's funeral. The Anchor Holds is one of his biggest ones. But come to think about it, you said you haven't been a Christian but 10 years right? He was more popular about 15 - 20ish years ago.
I don't know Hillsong's teachings personally. I just love their music. Thank you for your reply. This reply has also helped me to understand the answer I was seeking.
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I find this quote noted below to be incredibly insightful.
"Yes, Satan may "attack" your mind, your home, your relationships, etc but the main goal is not to destroy these things. The war employed against the above is only the means by which he has access to destroy something else, primarily, your FAITH. Once Satan has a person doubtful in God, then Satan has them incapable of pleasing their God, powerless against temptation, and disoriented in where true hope is found." ~ Jackie Hill Perry
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