Unity in the church

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Seek on May 15, 2016 at 5:47pm

Anyone (male or female), mature in Christ, is called to testify and share their knowledge of the Gospel, having been trained by it, with those new in Christ not yet mature, no matter their gender. To not do so, just because one believes they can't teach a man, is no different than to deny Christ. And while you go find your husband, or wait until you have one one day, it may be too late for the one who could have benefited from what you had to teach them. And when we stand before God and He asks why we're unwilling to help a sister or brother in need of the wisdom that comes through study and caring enough to not leave them without help, I don't want to be one that says because I wasn't qualified to speak to him.

Back to the topic...unity....it was interesting that the Pastor preached on this this morning. He was preaching on the younger and older generations holding one another up rather than segregate into groups unable to find a common ground in Christ. He mentioned the various denominations and said it won't be until there's unity that we'll see God moving.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 15, 2016 at 7:32pm

Sharing the Gospel is not the issue, sharing the Gospel is fine, that is not a formal office in the Church, we are all call to do that. Women are fine to do that although it's always best for women to share with woman and man to do it with men.

Permalink Reply by Seek on May 15, 2016 at 8:20pm

Always? So if no man is around to teach Biblical truths, then a man who is a young believer should never be taught?

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 15, 2016 at 10:09pm

The preference is Always for a man to teach a man and a woman to teach a women in a one on one setting, for a multitude of reasons, which I think we are all aware of.

I young believer should be taught how to study the word so the Holy Spirit teaches him, if there are no men around to mentor him, but it's hard to believe that in a church there will be no men that can take that privilege. 

A young believer should always be taught, but the biblical command is that he should be taught by men. If a church has no men around to teach then that church has serious issues and those issues should be address. 

Again there is a difference between formal office and a brother to brother, sister to sister, brother to sister, sister to brother exchange. We are discussing whether woman can be Pastors according to scripture, not whether a sister can share wisdom with a brother. 

Permalink Reply by Seek on May 16, 2016 at 3:28am

Actually we were discussing how so many are divided on issues such as this and others and how we will ever reach unity with such divisions. 

Anyway, not everyone will be in in a church when a new believer may ask questions about Biblical truths. And if  one would be permitted to impart such truths then that is the same as if they have taught them.  The mature in Christ have been taught by the Spirit and perseverance. It makes no difference the gender when they are able to address matters that they are knowledgeable on to those needing knowledge in such situations. It is also a topic Jesus never broached.

So my inclination is that Paul was speaking to the situation of division in that church, something Jesus did hold to. And unless the Spirit shows me otherwise, that is what I get from every study of this. And I know that teaching in that particular area is exactly what I've been called to. So to believe either is wrong in that is the same as believing that we cannot be lead by the same Spirit in this.

Since God imparts what He wishes to each one, and since none of us know fully, we could both be right or both be wrong. Yet it is not a matter of discord...or shouldn't be.  The church should not be divided over such issues since all are called to preach the Gospel and encourage one another and pray together. Today's church is indeed very different from the kind of church Jesus desired we have. 

Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 20, 2016 at 6:08pm

A young believer as far as young in age is fine. Women are placed over the young kids & children. That's one of our many jobs. But, if this person is a grown man & is young in the faith, I don't feel a woman should teach him as an authority figure. Now, I have people ask me questions online - men. I do answer their questions if I have the answer or I use to. My husband has asked me to no longer do this though & that they needed to seek out a Christian man for this or I could suggest them someone to talk to about it.  I still do it on here because of my role here but we don't have anyone online anymore anyways & when they ask, it's usually in open chat so anyone can participate if they are there. Those who go to pc & ask me questions are usually younger like late teens early 20's. 

For me, I can't think of any situation where there wouldn't be a man to teach another one the Word & you would be their only option unless you was on the moon or something. There is a difference in speaking with someone & working the Lord into that conversation than teaching someone as an authority figure over them. I'm sure there are special circumstances like they could be in a desperate situation & needed answers right then because they were dying or something. lol. No, I really can't think of any. 

Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 20, 2016 at 6:12pm

And I thought the same thing Seek, that the discussion was about unity in the church & how petty differences divide the church & here we are discussing one of those petty issues. The difference here is that we know one another & have communicated our thoughts on the Word for so many years that we know we don't agree on all of it. We also know that the few of us are in it for the long haul regardless. We also know that we wouldn't offend the other or at least not on purpose & if we do, we'll be the first to make amends. 

Permalink Reply by Seek on May 22, 2016 at 11:01pm

Tammy,

I think I asked somewhere in here... when is a man a man? Is there an age cutoff? How about a mental cutoff for the child in a man's body?

How do we decide what teaching and authority consists of? If you answer questions from a man online, isn't that still teaching? If he's asking does it mean you're exercising authority over him?

We can all dig down through anything and interject a lot of additional questions.

And yes it was about unity. See how we can take a statement by Paul, and rather than using wisdom, prayer, searching Scripture, etc., we grasp that statement as being the end of it. But it can't end there. There's always going to be the point when someone disagrees whether the child needs to be removed from the woman's classroom yet or are they still a child. Disagreement on what constitutes teaching, authority, etc.

We hold small in home meetings. If a woman leads this meeting by calling for us to pray, reading from the lesson plan, and asking for input and questions, is she teaching, exercising authority?

I don't see how one can ever make a final judgment on an issue like this and be able to address such linked questions with conviction and faith.

Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 21, 2016 at 3:47pm

Yet, in the roles you posted here Seek, none are over a man. None are in the place of authority. None. 

Permalink Reply by Seek on May 23, 2016 at 3:41pm

I'd say to elevate what one woman did to be forever remembered, while admonishing then who did not, kinda put her in a league above them. :D

But Jesus's focus was not one of gender (except to call us "all" brides LOL), but it was to show what our hearts and minds should be set on and how we should be extremely grateful that our sins have been forgiven.

Permalink Reply by R Scribe on May 12, 2016 at 9:36pm

David have you ever thought that the view of women promoted in your post is a total result of the fall and the subsequent curse. It is not Gods original plan. - I have placed in bold the portion I am referring to.

Genesis 3:16 (ISV)

¹⁶ He told the woman,

“I’ll greatly increase the pain of your labor during childbirth;

it will be painful for you to bear children.

“Your trust turns toward your husband,

yet he will dominate you.”

We are told to seek first the kingdom and His righteousness not perpetuate the results of a fallen world.  

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 13, 2016 at 12:06am

Scribe, 

It is good to hear from you.

You make a valid point, but I am not promoting a view of women at all, I am simply stating the facts and trying to make the point that I think God is making by not using women in such ways. 

Indeed the portion you highlighted is not God's original plan, that is very obvious since it's part of the curse. 

God has always done what he wants with whomever he wants, He is God, he has every right to do it and he does it perfectly. God could have raised a women to do whatever he desired her to do, but it seems to me that God has chosen not to use women the same way he uses men and visa versa. 

I had never read the verse in the ISV version, not sure if the word "trust" would be the correct word to use there, but I have not look into that.

I fail to see how stating what I believe God teaches and established in his word is perpetuating the results of a fallen world. 

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