All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Unity in the church
One will argue against the head covering, citing it as outdated or a metaphor, while upholding not letting women teach because it's not the same and God commands it.
But as I was studying the difference between the terms holiness, righteousness and justification this morning, something I read just answered a lot of questions that are so often debated.
Laying aside all our notions and beliefs of all these matters, when Jesus said to obey His commands, just what commands was He speaking of?
Galatians 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
John 15:10-12
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
- You shall have no other gods before Me.
- You shall not make idols.
- You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
- Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
- Honor your father and your mother.
- You shall not murder.
- You shall not commit adultery.
- You shall not steal.
- You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
- You shall not covet.
Every message was to love God and one another, to live in peace with one another. Even Paul's teaching on head coverings and women teaching were wrapped into that central theme. As Paul said, if his eating meat offended a weaker brother, then he wouldn't eat meat. People were offended about women speaking out or showing their head, and it was causing disagreements and dissention in the church because of customs and trivial matters. The church was against one another and divided in beliefs. Kinda like Baptist, Pentecostal, Nazarene. All because of trivial matters, churches divide and write their own "beliefs" a.k.a. rules. When the only written statement should be "Love God, believe in His Son Jesus Christ, and love others." That simple.
Jesus repeatedly demonstrated love. Love takes care of every commandment. If you steal, you hurt the one you steal from. To dishonor your parents is going to hurt them, etc. The commandments were a guide on how to love God and others...how to treat one another.
The Pharisees tried to nit pick it and make up a bunch of rules like you must pay 10% even if you don't have it, you are not permitted to speak (which wasn't even what quietness meant), you must cover your head. All this clouded what Jesus was teaching.
Matthew 23:13-15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
There are 613 Jewish laws. That certainly is placing burdens on people. Just try and commit them all to memory. Some people can but the rest of the real world would be pulling their hair out.
Jesus never commanded us to keep women silent or from teaching. He never commanded us to cover our head or pay 10%. His commands were to love Him and love others. As long as we're adhering to that, truly loving others, we don't need a list of rules and regulations.
We're not going to do anything that would hurt a brother or sister. We won't covet what they have or steal it. We won't dishonor our parents. We won't lie about others or murder them. We won't step out on our spouse and tear a family apart.
But then we'd have nothing to debate and this site wouldn't exist and I wouldn't have posted this. And we'll finally have reached unity and have just one church.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Love has many facets, its manifested in different ways. God corrects us because he loves us. We correct our children because we love them. We long for the body of Christ to interpret scripture correctly because we love them.
There are things that don't really matter much like someone not eating meat etc... Personally I still look for God's leading to speak to the person even about such topics, so they can be free from such misconception, but I will certainly not divide due to something so insignificant. When love is the motive behind the desire to mature a person in truth, is all good, the problem is when a holier than thou or other motives are behind correction.
Now a topic like "should women be pastors" is a serious topic deserving due diligence. Woman are called to teach and preach to other women and to raise Godly children, but they should not exercise authority over men. Not because of any cultural reasons either, but because that is what God/Christ commands. Woman have been given the tremendous responsibility of raising Godly children, of course, men have the same responsibility as well and God has wired women to be able to do so in ways that men are not. Women and men are different with Godly intent difference.
Women should not Pastor a church because:
…12 I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet. 13 ForAdam was formed first, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.…
The reason stated by God through the apostle has nothing to do with culture. It has everything to do with the order God has established for both the home and the church, from the beginning of creation. Women are NEVER TOLD NOT TO TEACH AND PREACH, they are told not to exercise authority over men, but they are free to teach other women and children.
There are divisions in the body and rightly so, but the divisions don't have to do with a breaking away from the body of Christ as if that was possible, but rather divisions of where we choose to congregate while still loving the body as a whole. The ideal would be that we are all in unity in all secondary issues, but the reality is that we will never be in total unit due to our flesh, but when the PERFECT ONE COMES,hallelujah, then we will be.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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David, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. This is the teaching Pastor of my church.
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Carla,
I saw the vid and it's a very short video, I wish it would have been more detail.
I think that for the past 2000 years women have been making decisions in church, at times directly and many times indirectly, through their husbands who look for the Godly counsel of their wives. Mothers who counsel their sons etc....
The reason is not a cultural one, but simply God's design for the Church. :)
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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David, it's not short. It's a series. If you let it continue after the first 1 minute segment, he will start a new question to build on the first. It's 4 or 5 segments. After that it continues with his videos on other matters.
LOLOL I'm still listening and just got to divorce, which includes God using the word divorce to Israel. But he does give a good segment on the subject. -
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Thanks Carla,
I will check it out.
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Carla,
Not trying to be overly critical or be offensive with my comments on this post. :) Simply trying to point out the mistakes we make at times when interpreting scripture with the goal of backing up a popular teaching of the day.
11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
The brother in the vid starts by stating that there are those who believe that passages like 1 Timothy 2, the verses above, teach that women should not hold leadership positions in the church and I will say that there are some churches that believe that, I have no idea how they survive, but the majority of churches that believe women should not Pastor or teach men, have many women in leadership positions in ministries appropriate for them to lead.
I don't agree with his explanation on why was Eve more easily deceived than Adam, though I agree with the fact that passed down information is not the same as first hand understanding, obtained through a one on one exchanged by the Holy Spirit.
Women I believe are more easily deceived because they are much more emotional in comparison to most men.
At 2:45 he states that Paul begins by saying "a women needs to begin to learn" to support his interpretation of the passage, but Paul does not use those words, Paul says "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness."
Nothing about women beginning to learn...so in the future they can lead as Pastors. They can lead children and women, but not men.
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David,
You said:
"Women I believe are more easily deceived because they are much more emotional in comparison to most men."
This is a sweeping generalization, and frankly it's not true. I have two boys and a husband, we've been together for 25 years, and all of them are far more emotional than I had ever imagined boys or men could be. They just express it in different ways for the most part. One of my sons (when he was younger) would cry a lot...now he has learned to use humor, it's still emotion, it's just a different way of expressing it. My other son (especially as a younger person) got angry. He would throw things, slam doors, yell, hit...just generally inappropriate aggressive behaviour. He is learning as he matures to not do these things. He'll be 13 on Sunday and now he's starting to get it. Aggressive behaviour toward others is also an immature emotional response that he is learning is not appropriate, and he's learning other ways to express himself. For him, sports and music are excellent outlets.
My husband’s emotional responses are different than both of those things...although he is a bit of a softy when it comes to movies. He is never violent, He cries at tender parts in movies....He expresses emotions usually with sarcasm. My youngest son is also doing this. I tend to do it too.
All this to say that men and women are both emotional. We're created to have and express emotion. The emotions I outlined above are mostly negative things, because I'm talking about them in response to you inferring that they are negative expressions.
Emotions are part of who we are....
And----If it's true that we can be easily deceived because we can be emotional (I'm referring to All humanity here), then none of us are exempt.
Unfortunately some people never grow up and mature to express their emotions in a healthy way. Some people grow up with a natural inclination towards violence or maybe they learned that in their family, and they end up being violent towards other adults and even children. They were never properly taught the importance of gentleness. I know a lot of men who teach gentleness very effectively. One of my son's baseball coaches excels in this area... AND YES, He is a believer. and YES, His wife is a powerful leader and missionary in their church community. They are a wonderful example of equality in marriage and in the church.
Marriages fall apart, businesses fail, careers are ruined all because someone couldn't handle their emotions in a healthy way. This is really sad. Some people are even in leadership in the church and abusive because they don’t have control over their emotions.
Both men and women are emotional.... good or bad..
There are healthy ways to respond to things like rejection or feeling like you're been treated unjustly or not listened to, and there are unhealthy ways. Both men and women must mature in response to these things.
My personal tendency is to back away and pray, study...and regroup. Emotions are real and healthy and a part of all of us. It’s even okay for us to be angry as long as we don’t sin in our anger.
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you when you say that women are more easily deceived because they are much more emotional compared to most men. I was going to say that your comment sounds archaic, but it’s not even that… It’s ignorant and misinformed… and sexist. I wouldn’t want to be led by someone who believes that. I would leave the church.
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hahaahhahhaha
ohhh my word hahaha I can't believe I actually wrote that women are more emotional hahaha I was half awake and half sleep when I wrote that response. I was in and out of sleep. I did not mean to say woman are more emotional creatures, cause we all know that men can be extremely emotional as well.
I don't have time to accurately describe what i meant to convey last night but i will get back to it in a bit.
I am really surprised that I don't have 50000 posts about that post hahahaha
My bad, that's what I get for trying to sleep and post, but you are acting very emotional about my post haahaha ok ok bad joke bad joke.
Love you all hahahaha
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Carla, he was half asleep when he wrote the first post. But I'm wondering if he was completely off the wagon on the second one with all those hahahahas. LOL
Now David, women may or may not be more emotional, but men are typically very quick to backpedal when caught in a trap like that one. LOL!
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:) There is absolutely no trap.
It just crack me up, I crack me up often, I had no memory of expressing what I wanted to convey with that word, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the statement that women are more emotional than men. As I said on the follow up post to that one.
I really don't understand why Carla would take offense to it.
As I stated if you tell me that men are more emotional than women it means nothing to me. It would only drive me to study the biblical text and the psychological implications of such a statement. If God made one gender more emotional than the other in certain situations, which makes sense to be true, there is nothing bad about that.
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