All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
To Bake or not to Bake.
A Daily Signal Exclusive: Bakers Facing $135K Fine Over Wedding Cake for Same-Sex Couple Speak Out
https://www.facebook.com/TheDailySignalNews/videos/486012274898063/
Can somebody force somebody else to do something against their will?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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I found this from one of my old emails from Ron.... It suits this discussion so perfectly.
SO---For those of us who have been around long enough to remember who Ron Payne is...this is from him; He's referring to our relationship with non-believers.
" Our own position in Christ and our responsibility to Him in situations such as this, is to do absolutely nothing "religious", except to be obedient and go out of our way to show love at every opportunity. How does one accomplish that? Remember Christ (GOD) came to be a servant. We should go out of our way to be servants too. There can be no arguments that anyone can create, against love. To love and continually do things for those who are unworthy, makes them humble and not argumentative.
After my Bride and I have a heavy argument, she starts to bring things to me, rather than let me have to stand up and get them myself. (You think I don't notice)Gene will continue doing these little extra things out of pure love that simply breaks me down and makes me love her all the more. There is no argument against this form of love." ~Ron Payne.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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"LIKE" (since we don't have "like" buttons in the forums, consider that may "like" button :-)
He is on my hit list of people I want to see when I translate from here to where we are going ... I have nothing but love and respect for him ...
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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I kind of hope that you would like to see everyone in heaven :) I keep thinking about Stephen and his surprise at seeing 'Saul'/'Paul', I hope that it's that way for all of us. But the most important face will be Jesus Christ. Amen?!! I hope that others will be saying whaaaaat when they see me show up, but with a big smile on their face, knowing all the prayers that went up for me.
Thank God it isn't left up to us to decide, Amen????
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Watchman...
"I kind of hope that you would like to see everyone in heaven :)"
That goes without saying.. :-)
However, some people we hold close to our hearts because we knew them...relationships are so important.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Sure can. I'm forced to pay taxes out of every paycheck, whether I want to or not. :-o
We're forced to adhere to certain educational standards or risk losing our children to the state who will educate them in the manner we did not...either way, they will get the education the state deems applicable. We're forced to either not spank them or risk losing them to a state that won't spank them. The latest and greatest in the US...forced to have health insurance or pay a fine. <sarcasm>Thanks Obama.</sarcasm>
And then there are those things we're not so much forced to do as strongly persuaded. Can they force a bakery to bake a wedding cake for same-sex couples? I guess we could say no. But at what price?
I would do similar to Mischelle. I'd bake the cake and pray. But I'd do one other thing. I'd bake the nicest looking, but nastiest tasting, cake ever. They wouldn't recommend my bakery to any of their friends. LOL
Aside from that, we're to come out apart from the world, but that's not to deny we live in the world. We're trying to make the statement that it goes against our beliefs, but is this the way to do it? We're not marrying a same sex person or ordering a cake for our own same-sex marriage. When Jesus healed, He didn't say I refuse because you got sick by sinning. He healed them then said go and sin no more.
So while the part of us that have this deep down disgust of these things wants to deny same-sex couples a wedding ceremony or wedding cake, there is the little matter of how we are ALL sinners. If not for the grace of God, we're no better than they are. But they're going to hell and we're not. So it should be an opportunity to shine and show true Christian love but we can get caught up in our own disgust of the sin that we want to deny any part of it and refuse to even acknowledge those engaged in it.
It's late, I'm tired. Not sure if that's making any sense, but after not having been on the boards in awhile, it's all I got.
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Interesting article that speaks to this discussion:
LGBT Activists’ Assault on Religious Liberty: ‘Strained and Unpersu...
Lord Bless,
LT
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Great article LT. Thanks for sharing.
It seems that this print shop owner found the fine line and is balancing on it with grace. precision and perseverance. A great example.
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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I agree with Campbell, the author -- it is an assault on religious liberty in both cases: the print shop and the cake shop because "opponents claim that people who serve individuals from all groups, but who decline to express messages or participate in events that conflict with their religious beliefs, are akin to racist restaurant owners in the Jim Crow South. Yet this analogy—this ploy to derail religious-freedom laws—is wholly misplaced."
The owners of the cake shop have stated that they've served the ones who've brought legal charges against them but to serve them at a gay marriage event would violate their conscience due to religious beliefs.
Campbell writes, "Blaine ... says, 'I serve all people. But I can’t create or promote any message that conflicts with my religious beliefs.'"
If the tables were turned and the shop owners had been a gay couple asked by heterosexuals to put a message on a cake denouncing same sex marriage for an event against gay marriage, wouldn't they want the right to refuse to serve that request?
I really liked this part:
Lost in the shuffle of this attempt to harken back to Jim Crow is the simple truth that we have never required every business owner to agree to every customer request. No one wants to live in an America like that. Here, in the land of the free, the government does not require an atheist printer to create materials promoting religion or a baker who supports same-sex marriage to design a cake with messages denouncing his deeply held views. Nor do we compel a pacifist engineer to design tanks that will be used in war or a Democrat journalist to write an article supporting a Republican candidate.
Jim Campbell is senior legal counsel with Alliance Defending Freedom [2], which is defending the religious freedom and conscience rights of many clients in court.
These business owners share a common trait with Blaine. While serving everyone, they have a conscientious objection to producing some messages or participating in some events that conflict with a religious, political or moral belief of utmost importance to them.
They are unlike the people who operated segregated lunch counters. In particular, the atheist printer’s willingness to make business cards for people of faith, even though he won’t create signs promoting their religion, shows that he, unlike the racist restaurant owner, does not discriminate against a class of people. Thus, the atheist printer, just like Blaine, should be free to operate his business consistent with his scruples.
That’s the way it should be because we Americans respect a diversity of opinions, and we don’t require our fellow citizens to violate their deepest political, moral or religious convictions.
People of faith, like Blaine, are simply looking for the same freedom available to the atheist printer, the pacifist engineer and the Democrat journalist. Religious-freedom laws simply ensure that conscientious professionals like Blaine get a fair hearing in court. That’s something all of us should support.
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Permalink Reply by Sunflower on
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I own a business. Not a florist shop or bakery, and my hips thank God for the latter fact. I'd not refuse a homosexual couple who asked me to serve their home heating system, because that's my business.
In matters of Christian bakers and florists however, I'd think Title 7 and the Conscience Clause would allow for refusal to serve a secular ceremony.
Further, just as an inroad addition to this whole discussion about homosexual marriage, we know how God has all things work for his glory and as a lesson achieved in overcoming the present hurdle.
Maybe all this homosexual secular contract civil union chaos is happening so that the people of God can finally see.
Jesus told us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's. However, God created marriage and defined it as between one man and one woman.Secular government, speaking of the U.S., would qualify today as "Caesar". And Caesar issues the state license that defines the civil union the state calls marriage. And invests through that contract and in concert with the federal government the rights and privileges that are exclusive to the applicants of said contract. The couple.
Maybe all this chaos is being let to progress across what is now 30+ states because God wants us to see that the "gifts" of Caesar that accompany that civil union state issued contract for the people of God are rendered by Caesar. Who, as the homosexual activists point out successfully thus far, is not obligated to cleave to the will and dictates of the one God.
Maybe all this is happening so that the people of God realize what they've lost when they've signed on to be married under the laws of Caesar. Whereas marriage by Gods word and law not only predates that but guarantees homosexuals cannot trespass upon that.
Perhaps God is showing us what we lost when we rendered unto Caesar by consenting to be married according to his laws rather than just Gods.
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