All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Jesus Wept
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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It's comforting to know that He shares all of those emotions with us. Joy in our joy, happiness in our happiness
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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I like how Tozer says it here:
"Now compassion is an emotional identification, and Christ had that in full perfection. The man who has this wound of compassion is a man who suffers along with other people. Jesus Christ our Lord can never suffer to save us any more. This He did, once for all, when He gave Himself without spot through the Holy Ghost to the Father on Calvary's cross. He cannot suffer to save us but He still must suffer to win us. He does not call His people to redemptive suffering. That's impossible; it could not be. Redemption is a finished work. But He does call His people to feel along with Him and to feel along with those that rejoice and those that suffer. He calls His people to be to Him the kind of an earthly body in which He can weep again and suffer again and love again. For our Lord has two bodies. One is the body He took to the tree on Calvary; that was the body in which He suffered to redeem us. But He has a body on earth now, composed of those who have been baptized into it by the Holy Ghost at conversion. In that body He would now suffer to win men. Paul said that he was glad that he could suffer for the Colossians and fill up the measure of the afflictions of Christ in his body for the church's sake."
Man - The Dwelling Place of God by A. W. Tozer, chapter 25
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/tozer/5j00.0010/5j00.0010.25.htm -
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Seek had stated, "I keep hearing it said that He was sad because His friend died and He felt the pain of it along with the others. Evangelist preaching a revival this week referred to it in a similar way and I just cringed ..."
My point is that she's using the same logic to say one thing can't be the reason and another thing is the reason. Why wouldn't Jesus not care that Lazarus had suffered and had died? Jesus struggled in Gethsemane but submitted Himself to suffer and die. Lazarus did not know what the miraculous outcome would be. Why wouldn't Jesus have cared about what Lazarus was going through as well as what Mary and Martha were suffering while watching Lazarus die. It was difficult for me to watch Dad pass away even though I'm certain that the outcome was that he departed from the body to be with the Lord. -
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It's so hard for me now to see people who are sick or suffering in some way, and I used to work for hospice and dealt with it everyday, but after that happened to my great nephew, Landen, who suffered second and third degree burns when he was four, and while visiting him in the hospital burn unit, during his time of surgeries and long recovery, something just snapped inside of me, and I can't find the strength anymore that I once had.
But I remember always feeling the pain of others as if it was my own pain, even to the point of wondering, when Dad was terminally ill, how could I possibly enjoy so much as just having a hot cup of coffee while someone so close to me was suffering?
I've always felt bad because others were feeling bad.
I suppose it's sympathy, but it means I suffer when others suffer, and I feel helpless.
In Scripture, we read that there are many members, but only one Body, and when one suffers, all suffer with it (1 Cor 12:26).
Jesus is the head, and we are the Body. "And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent" (Colossians 1:18, ESV).
Yet, I don't think it's saying that we are to turn the suffering of others into our own suffering. That would only serve, it would seem, to create even more suffering, making the burden that much heavier for everyone.
I think I've always done that. I want to bear the suffering of others for them, so that they won't have to, and I end up feeling guilty about what others are going through, wishing they could somehow be spared.
I don't think Jesus was doing that, nor is it why He wept. He wasn't feeling bad because they felt bad. He wasn't feeling guilt. He was guiltless. I think He was just affirming and identifying with their suffering.
Matthew Chapter 9, KJB
36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly [is] plenteous, but the labourers [are] few;
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
There is a doctrine called Divine Impassibility. How do we reconcile it with a suffering God? It makes for a good discussion :)
At any rate, Jesus didn't have mood swings during His earthly life, nor does God have them now.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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I agree with Tammy that Jesus never doubted. Even from a young age He left His parents to go teach in the synagogue. He was born with the Holy Spirit, knowing who He was.
I don't see His being sad over their lack of faith the same as being sad over their sorrow. Yes, He knew they'd believe. But even we believe and yet...do we believe enough that we never have a doubt, enough to see signs and wonders in His name? I can see Him being saddened knowing we lack faith enough in what He can do that we will not be able to see all that He could have for us if we would just believe enough.
On the other hand, part may have been empathy in what I was saying about my crying because others were. He may have wept because they wept. But I doubt He wept because Lazarus was physically dead.
Tammy had mentioned how we love our children and don't want to see them hurting. But isn't there a measure of joy in knowing the pain they feel from something now is going to have a better outcome? Say your child falls and breaks their leg and needs x-rays. You would feel bad because your child is hurting. But if you knew ahead of time that a broken leg would prompt the x-ray that would show a tumor that had it been there a week longer would have cost them their leg, wouldn't you be joyful?
I think that He cried more so because He knew what they could have with faith and because He felt their pain, but not because He missed His friend or was hurting over Lazarus' physical death.
Yes, He was compassionate and felt their "pain", but the way some state it is that He was sad because His friend was dead, not because Mary, Martha and others were sad over the death, but because He was sad that His friend was dead. But why be sad over something you knew was going to be wonderful? If you cry with someone who is hurting over a loss, it isn't the same as crying for the loss itself. You cry because that person hurts or is crying. Add to that, that if they'd known what He did, they would have been rejoicing instead that news of this miracle was going to make many believers. And He was sorrowful that they didn't know this or have faith in it. Sorrowful that they were hurting and knowing they wouldn't need to be if they had enough faith to believe.
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For clarity, to be tempted to doubt isn't the same as doubting and one can move forward from such temptation in full faith and trust, and Jesus was tempted in every way that we are, yet without sin. In the wilderness temptations, Satan was tempting Jesus to doubt. Also, the widow of Nain proves that Jesus was touched by death and grief in this world for He also raised her son back to life. The Gospel says simply, "When the Lord saw her, his heart went out to her and he said, 'Don't cry' " (Luke 7:13). The Greek word is splagchnizomai, "have pity, feel sympathy".
It sounds like your mind was made up before you posted the question. Did you just want to see who would agree with you? When Jesus lamented over Jerusalem, it was because they were rejecting Him. God is not willing that any perish and wants all to believe but they would not. Your question is one on which we can only speculate. It's good to ask questions to see what others think. However, you're only speculating, too. I think lack of faith displeased Him. All sin hurts Christ. In Nazareth, He marveled at their lack of faith.
Without the resurrection, none of it means anything and, to me, it proves God does care about the curse of death and sin hanging over us. After all, Jesus did say, "I am the resurrection and the life." Does God not know already who will believe? Does God not care who will repent and receive life never to die again? My point is that you are shooting down an opinion while expressing your own but using the same logic to verify what you think is the right answer, that can be equally applied to the other opinion in just the same way-- Jesus knowing the outcome. Is God ever surprised? Just because Jesus knew that He would raise Lazarus and turn their mourning into joy doesn't mean His heart wasn't touched by the death of His friend and the grief of others around him for the death, and just because God has foreknowledge of who will be saved doesn't mean God takes pleasure in the death of unbelievers.
Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. Psalm 116:15, ESV
In your example of the child's X-ray, what if the tumor isn't cured and the outcome is death?
I'm not disagreeing with your opinion that lack of faith grieves God. The purpose behind this miracle was to deepen faith and belief in Him as the Messiah. Maybe His tears were of joy. He is the resurrection and the life and it brings Him joy to give life. :)
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Permalink Reply by journeyman on
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Jesus became man. He was moved to tears by the great sadness and grief of the situation.
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Permalink Reply by Justin McCarroll on
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I thought he wept because of the sorrow he felt for us
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I think there was a combination of sorrow and sympathy for what the others were feeling and sorrow over their lack of faith. I dunno. Maybe the preacher just didn't state it well, but I couldn't see sorrow over the loss of His friend since He knew His friend wasn't lost.
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