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Commands
Which commands of Christ Jesus are important and which are not necessary for our salvation?
Is being obedient to Christ Jesus a command or is it optional, not validating or invalidating our love for Him and salvation?
The greatest of these is Love, so how does the Bible clarify our love for Christ Jesus?
How do we express our love?
Are any of these commands pertinent to our salvation or are they just a suggestion to us all and we have the option to choose to follow His commands or not?
Biblical references please.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Watchman,
We're saved by Grace thru faith.
Ephesians 2
http://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-8.htm
John 14
If we love Jesus we'll do what He commands.
http://biblehub.com/niv/john/14.htm
1 John 5:2
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Is obedience necessary for salvation?
No...but it does give us assurance.
1 John 2
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
We express our Love for Him by walking in obedience, not because we have to, but because we want to. It's a posture of the heart.
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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"We express our Love for Him by walking in obedience, not because we have to, but because we want to. It's a posture of the heart."
I think that this is the totality of the believer. The posture of the heart.
Although I will disagree on the question I asked about "Is obedience necessary for salvation?"
I do not believe that it only is provided to give us assurance, because if we look at 1 John 2:4 it states: The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
We know what happens to liars. Also, if we choose not to be obedient to God, what is that saying about us? That we do not believe in His promises, we do not believe in Him....kind of like the demons who believe in Jesus, let's look at James 2:19- You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. This is an intellectual belief, to not believe in obeying you are in essence saying I believe in You, but I do not believe to a point of obeying you.There is nothing in the Biblical Word that separate belief from obedience and salvation from obedience...if there is please provide Scripture. I do not want to be wrong on this.
Too much Scripture is given over to "believing", I would encourage a study of what the Word is actually saying. I am opposed to a belief that you can accept Jesus, but yet not make Him Lord, become submissive and yield to His commands.
Are we taught that we are unable to fulfill these obligations? I would answer no, emphatically, we are empowered by God to commit ourselves to the teachings of the Holy Writ. We can be overcomers, we can say no to the power of hell, we can lead a victorious life in Jesus Christ. If we couldn't, wouldn't it be hateful of our Christ Jesus not to share that with us? It's with His power, true conversion, not fake, not some I'll stop what I'm doing now on my own and in my own way.....An Emphatic NO, this is with the power of the Holy Spirit.
Obedience and salvation are not at opposite ends of the sphere. He whom you obey is your King. The Bible from front to back speak nothing of those who are disobedient going to heaven.
Being obedient is not negative, it's positive, always. It is Who you trust in.
I'm wondering why the narrow gate is so narrow that there be few that find it...or are able to enter into the strait gate, and why so many find the broad road to destruction?
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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If we disobey in just one way, aren't we disobedient? Does that mean at that moment we aren't saved? 1 John 1:9 is for the believer who sins in some way. Are we moving in and out of a right standing with God as far as going to Hell for sinning everytime we fail to keep a commandment, until we confess it and receive cleansing?Are you saying only a perfectly clean slate on our part regarding commandment keeping and obedience will permit us entrance into heaven?
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Yep we are disobedient if we disobey in just one way.
Let's go back to the story of Adam and Eve. Genesis 3:
1Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”
4“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
What I am saying is that there is very little tolerance for sin on behalf of the believer. I don't know if you are moving in and out of a right standing with God, that would be between you and God. But I do know that a continuous disobedient behavior might be a sign of not belonging to the Lord Jesus Christ.
God has no tolerance for sin....if you believe He does, then I would have you look at His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. It is ridiculous to me to believe that it is okay to sin...to not obey Him, and to trample Him underfoot as if it's something light and not so bad. It's historic, it caused Jesus Christ His life...our sins, our "failures", and it wasn't a quick shot in the head, it was a torturous, miserable death....on our behalf. I often imagine what His raw back felt like brushing against that wood, while trying to breath in and out. I imagine what it felt like being whipped while trying to carry that piece of wood to my own crucifixion. I can't even speak of His sacrifice without crying....IT WAS FOR ME!
I won't argue whether one sin will put you into hell, but I will argue why being absolved of your sins won't keep you from going back to them.
I would take all of your questions to God, ask Him.
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First, I didn't imply that sinning is OK.
Second, Jesus died for me. That's why I have a clean slate.
Third, one sin will send someone to Hell, if the person hasn't believed and received Christ.
Fourth, I agree that someone who takes the position that sinning is OK and who makes the grace of God lasciviousness, is likely not born again, but I know Scripture teaches that the sins of a child of God are all under the blood, past, present, and future, and because of the horrible suffering He endured in our place, no born again believer will be cast into Hell. We are to pursue holiness and spiritual maturity, and it is a lifelong process, which means many fail in many ways, and by fail, I mean sin, as they battle the flesh and spiritual enemies. God is the final judge for sure. Of us all.
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First, I didn't imply that sinning is OK.
I didn't think that you did.
But you did say: "If we disobey in just one way, aren't we disobedient? "
And I said yes.
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Then I apologize for thinking you did imply it based upon this paragraph:
God has no tolerance for sin....if you believe He does, then I would have you look at His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. It is ridiculous to me to believe that it is okay to sin...to not obey Him, and to trample Him underfoot as if it's something light and not so bad. It's historic, it caused Jesus Christ His life...our sins, our "failures", and it wasn't a quick shot in the head, it was a torturous, miserable death....on our behalf. I often imagine what His raw back felt like brushing against that wood, while trying to breath in and out. I imagine what it felt like being whipped while trying to carry that piece of wood to my own crucifixion. I can't even speak of His sacrifice without crying....IT WAS FOR ME!
I don't believe God tolerates sin and I know everyone who has replied in this discussion thus far well enough to know they don't believe it either.
You and I aren't that far apart in belief. I believe the devils have no repentance. They believe and tremble, but when God issues a command to them, such as Jesus did when He cast them out of people, they do obey. They have only limited authority and are under God's control. They believe and tremble but never repent.
There are areas where you and I disagree, but obeying our Lord out of love isn't one of them.
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Watchman,
I think we have to tread carefully when we're talking about Lordship salvation. We can easily become hung up on 'obedience' as the pharisees did rather than 'love', and therefore get it all wrong. I believe God teaches us that to love is to be obedient...God first and others. The Pharisees were obedient to the letter of the law, and Jesus condemned them for arrogance, pride and hypocrisy. They knew nothing of the Spirit of the law.
We are to be obedient to the Newness of the Spirit of the Law, not the oldness letter of the law (vs6):
The Newness of the Spirit of the law is how we are united to Christ.
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her [a]husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law [b]concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in [c]the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the [d]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except [e]through the Law; for I would not have known about [f]coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not [g]covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me [h]coveting of every kind; for apart [i]from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart [j]from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was [k]to result in life, proved [l]to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
Rather than asking: "Is obedience necessary for salvation?"
I think we should be asking: "What does obedience look like?"
It's beneficial to move towards a practical application. At this point the Pharisees would pull out their rule book and respond by saying they were sinful by working on the Sabbath. The Pharisees practical application would be the letter of the law. Jesus' application is love.
Matthew 12
12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
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Ephesians 2:8-10 is very clear. Keeping the commandments doesn't save us or keep us saved. We are saved by grace through faith and will do good works and be obedient because we are saved but not to be saved. The work Jesus did, the life He lived, the death He died, the wrath He suffered saves us. The gospel of Christ is His death, burial, and resurrection. We serve Him out of love for what He has done for us and the unspeakable gift He has freely given us.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Which commands of Christ Jesus are important
Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
which are not necessary for our salvation?
Galatians 2:16 (KJV)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Is being obedient to Christ Jesus a command or is it optional, not validating or invalidating our love for Him and salvation?
Acts 15:10-11 (KJV)
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Colossians 2:13-14 (KJV)
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Romans 10:4 (KJV)
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
The greatest of these is Love, so how does the Bible clarify our love for Christ Jesus? How do we express our love?
1 John 2:3 (KJV)
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
People will stop there to prove an erroneous point that if we fail a commandment we're not saved. They reject the idea of taking two steps back:
1 John 2:1-2 (KJV)
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Are any of these commands pertinent to our salvation or are they just a suggestion to us all and we have the option to choose to follow His commands or not?
Do we try to keep His commandments? Do we sometimes fail? Is there scripture which says failure to keep them all costs us our salvation? Why did Jesus die if we could keep the commandments?
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What are the ordinances of the Law?
Colossians 2:13-14 (KJV)
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Amen, what does this mean to you?In Galatians 2:16 what did Paul mean?" Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law , but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
Paul was talking to them about returning to Jewish traditions, i.e. circumcision, etc. and causing the gentile believers into believing that they had to enter into the Jewish customs. Paul never said that the 10 commands were null and void, he never ever said this. In fact, if you will look at 2:17 it is clearly stating the opposite.
You posted Romans 10:4 - What does this verse mean in your own words....Does this mean that the law is gone? Postphoned, no longer worthy or legal in His convenant? I would just like to hear your take on this.
My point is that there is nothing burdensome about committing to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
There is no reason, nor excuse that we can't continue in the Lord's example.
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