Law of the land

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 22, 2015 at 4:41am

I haven't looked at any commentary on this, but I'd say it's a statement attesting to God's sovereignty. Like those beings who are in the satanic realm, the authority of all on earth is delegated and limited by God. We are to obey the laws unless they go against God's commands. The fact that evil people came to rule, based on kings in the OT, is a punishment against a nation and a people and a judgment against them from God. Nevertheless, what the rulers do is still evil in the sight of God.

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Permalink Reply by Seek on January 22, 2015 at 10:54am

What has me wondering on this is that footnote I saw.  Apparently the original Hebrew (I guess that's original?) qualified it as all righteous rulers.  But I guess if they weren't righteous, they would be going against God's commands quite a lot.  Hmmm, explains the problems in this country.  :-o  Ooops, did I say that out loud?  LOL

But Romans 13:6-7 says: Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid. They are serving God in what they do.  Give to everyone what you owe them: Pay your taxes and government fees to those who collect them, and give respect and honor to those who are in authority.

But if they're not "righteous" as mentioned in the verse in Proverbs, and they charge burdensome unpayable taxes, would the "obey the law of the land" play in there or is it taking into consideration as stated in Proverbs, "righteous leaders"? 

Considering the other part of Romans 13:3-4 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.  The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good.  But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong....

It doesn't seem to be speaking of unrighteous leaders. 

I know some people don't even think we should oppose government because of the "obey the laws of the land" scripture, but many opposed government even in Scripture.  Moses opposed Pharaoh quite a bit.  ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 22, 2015 at 11:04am

Some people might argue that when unrighteous rulers come to power it means God's authority has been usurped and God isn't in control. I don't believe that. I think God is in control even when unrighteous rulers are appointed to office. An example is seen in the time of Christ. Evil people put Him on trial and sentenced Him to death, and yet their actions were worked within God's plan even though they were sinning and making horrible choices.

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Permalink Reply by Seek on January 22, 2015 at 1:17pm

In that case though, Jesus knew what He'd came here to do.  But I also look at Shadrach Meshach and Abednego, who rather than obey the king's edict, chose to risk death themselves.  It's not meant to be used for people not to obey the law or to say God's not in control.  But God does say that in this world we will have troubles.  So even in control, sometimes He doesn't take us out of the troubles.  But when we have evil leaders, from how I read this, we don't just follow everything they would say just because they're leaders.  Some people have understood that to mean that if a leader is going to shoot you because they don't like your race, that you're not supposed to fight back. 

I've just heard it used many times that we're to obey the laws of the land...good or bad.  And if a law required you to abort a child (like China for instance), and you obey it, you disobey God.  If you disobey it however??? Are you obeying God?  Or disobeying Him because He said to obey the laws?

Sort of a conundrum.  <--- a word I actually know.  LOL

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 22, 2015 at 1:45pm

Not really a conundrum, at least not to me, but takes careful explication.

In my initial reply I said we are to obey the laws unless they go against God's commands. Regarding paying taxes, Jesus said render unto ceasar. It's true we must pay extensive taxes, but there is relief in some ways and it's important to learn about tax credits and honest deductions. Our tax dollars, after being paid, aren't always handled appropriately, but that is on the shoulders of those who are stewards over those funds and doesn't let us off the hook or excuse us from paying.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 22, 2015 at 1:53pm

Act 5:17-42 NIV84  Then the high priest and all his associates, who were members of the party of the Sadducees, were filled with jealousy.  (18)  They arrested the apostles and put them in the public jail.  (19)  But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the doors of the jail and brought them out.  (20)  "Go, stand in the temple courts," he said, "and tell the people the full message of this new life."  (21)  At daybreak they entered the temple courts, as they had been told, and began to teach the people. When the high priest and his associates arrived, they called together the Sanhedrin--the full assembly of the elders of Israel--and sent to the jail for the apostles.  (22)  But on arriving at the jail, the officers did not find them there. So they went back and reported,  (23)  "We found the jail securely locked, with the guards standing at the doors; but when we opened them, we found no one inside."  (24)  On hearing this report, the captain of the temple guard and the chief priests were puzzled, wondering what would come of this.  (25)  Then someone came and said, "Look! The men you put in jail are standing in the temple courts teaching the people."  (26)  At that, the captain went with his officers and brought the apostles. They did not use force, because they feared that the people would stone them.  (27)  Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest.  (28)  "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."  (29)  Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!  (30)  The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.  (31)  God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.  (32)  We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."  (33)  When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death.  (34)  But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while.  (35)  Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men.  (36)  Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing.  (37)  After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered.  (38)  Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.  (39)  But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."  (40)  His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.  (41)  The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name.  (42)  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.

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Permalink Reply by Seek on January 22, 2015 at 7:00pm

We must obey God rather than men!

That seems in complete opposition to obey the laws of the land and I wonder if it's due to translation at times. Like this Hebrew reference to righteous leaders that wasn't included in the original translations.

It doesn't take away from scripture but until we learn through study, satan sometimes uses things like this to confuse. I'm finding quite a few things that used to be so confusing getting clearer every step of the way.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 23, 2015 at 8:01am

God will never require us to obey man when obedience to man means disobedience to God.

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by journeyman on January 23, 2015 at 8:13am

Amen.

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