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What is the second death or the Lake of Fire?
I am currently doing a study on the lake of fire or the second death. I would love to hear what God has shown anyone about this subject.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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The Second death is the death after the physical death where judgment takes place & are cast into the Lake of Fire. It's the permanent separation from God. Many feel that it's a separation from God alone & it doesn't consist of a burning hell. They feel separation from God for an eternity is hell enough. I do believe differently for why would so many Scriptures consist of the description of the Lake of Fire. Hell was created for Satan & his angels but unfortunately, man has now reserved a place there as well.
Rev 20:14-15 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. - This doesn't describe an eternity just outside of God's presence but distinctly says lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” - Here is a better description of the lake of fire & who will be part of it.
When reading the Scriptures, it is impossible to escape the fact that divine judgment will be ultimately satisfied by the final and irreversible punishment of sinners who have committed the ultimate sin of blaspheming the Spirit, denying the Savior & turning their back on the Father. We may not like the outcome but it is what it is. It's reality based on Scriptures.
“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.” (Acts 17:30, 31)
We must always remember that there is nothing more valuable than the salvation of one’s immortal soul.
“For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? for what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds.” (Matt. 16:26, 27)
Christ’s statement in Matt. 26:24 says that it was better for Judas that he should have never been born then to betray the Son. The JW's believe that those who aren't chosen just enter death into absolutely nothingness & the SDA believe they will be judged & then into nothingness. However, the Scriptures never say that. It describes hell where the worm dyeth not & the gnashing of teeth. That doesn't sound like nothingness to me. This nothingness is just another excuse for the sinners to continue in their lives of sin.
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Permalink Reply by Helen Williamson on
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Thanks for your comment Tammy. Sounds like you study your Bible a lot. What do you suppose is meant by the promise in Revelation 2:11 to the church in Smyrna that to the one who overcomes he shall not be hurt of the second death? Is this "being hurt of the second death" the experience of eternal punishment in the Lake of fire?
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Try it in conjunction with the text around it.
7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
It's speaking of the one who overcomes being cowardly, unbelieving, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, etc. The overcomers are those who are believers for Christ is able to make them stand because they believed. Unbelief results in the second death, being cast into hell.
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Thanks Seek.
You have taken your text from Rev. 21. Most of us who have walked with Christ for some time would not associate ourselves with any in this list because we do not see ourselves as cowardly, unbelieving, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, practicing magic arts, idolaters or liars.
But I remember when I was a young believer and even now some of the things on this list scared me. I struggled in some of those areas. And when I think about the standard that our Lord has set in which it is not the outward sin that is the problem but that which is in the heart of man. (but I say unto you that whosoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her in his heart.... it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish and not that thy WHOLE BODY should be cast into HELL. Matthew 5:28-30) I feel that there are many even seasoned saints who are missing the standard that Jesus set here.
There are situations which arise quite frequently where just telling a little white lie would erase the tension and get a person out of a mess. And what about in I John where our Lord says that if you hate your brother you are a murderer. There are times even now that I have to admit that I am cowardly. And if I were not unbelieving would I not be healed of things in my body that I deal with on a daily basis? Our Lord did promise healing for us as believers.
I think that many saints are caught up in idolatry in America. We want the best and when something better comes out what we had considered the best, which we have struggled to obtain, is ready to be discarded so we can get the new better thing. We have to follow the trend having the latest, greatest whatever. The latest Phone which is for most a status symbol or the gadget that says we are somebody. Is this not materialistic and akin to idolatry. (Not being judgmental but wanting to see what I need to see completely so as not to be deceived)
The point that is being made here is that our hearts are not exactly where Jesus wants them to be. It is the heart problem that Jesus is after. Overcoming is not just resisting the temptations and not succumbing to them but is it not going free from that in the heart which causes the temptation? Isn't that what Jesus was talking about in the sermon on the mount? Isn't this what overcoming is about. The PURE in HEART shall see God.
The church in Smyrna appears to be a pretty strong fellowship. Our Lord says nothing derogative of them, however this is the church that he gives the warning to that the devil was going to cast some of them into prison and that if they overcome through not loving their lives unto the death they will not be hurt of the second death.
It would appear to me that we need to seek God continually for did Jesus not say that the way to life is narrow and very constricted and few there would be who would find it? I want to find the Zoe life that Jesus speaks of in John 10:10. I do not want to come short of any of his promises. I want to be a real overcomer and not just a resister. A white stone and a new name is what is desirable. A well done, thou good and FAITHFUL servant.
Please pray for me
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I've had the same thoughts but then I have to ask myself to read the scriptures again...
Ephesians 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ
Colossians 1:10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
1 Thessalonians 3:12 and may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you;
1 Thessalonians 4:10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more,
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
1 Peter 2:2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
2 Thessalonians 1:3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brethren, as is only fitting, because your faith is greatly enlarged, and the love of each one of you toward one another grows ever greater;
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
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Thanks Seek. Very good word. I delight in the law of God after the inward man indeed
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I went to scripture like this repeatedly warring back and forth. Hearing God wants complete obedience then reading that whosoever believes is saved. Hearing if we don't love those that hurt us the most we're doomed to hell then reading about being saved but all these verses on growing and maturing and love increasing.
I've been a victim of an inner war over not knowing who to believe or what to believe. I'd read scripture such as what you've posted and then wonder why then I am told to believe and repent to be saved. Kept trying to push down negative thoughts that would crop up but they persisted again and again. I'd have a cuss word enter my thoughts from nowhere and it was tormenting me. Once I was able to truly understand that these things I'd get in my thoughts, since they were thoughts I hated having and would often disgust me, weren't always MY thoughts but sometimes firey darts from satan, I stopped getting upset with myself over having them. And they've actually lessened since.
Yes we can all idolize things. But it's learned behavior. Since so much scripture shows there is a growing process, satan tries beating us down from day 1 telling us if we just got mad at the person who cut us off, rode our bumper the last mile, parked so close that we needed a can opener to access our car, just broke into your home even...if we get angry then we aren't godly and must not have really been saved.
Only God knows hearts...who truly wants to do good and who wants evil. He alone knows our real motives for turning to Christ. That's why I don't believe anyone should turn to Him to avoid hell. Fear of hell doesn't change a person. A heart desiring to change and be changed is what we need. But change is hard. I've found out a very hard way that asking God to change us means we better install seat belts and handrails because it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
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I can relate to the inner war indeed and the struggle to respond correctly to those who are rude. I also have been through the scriptures that seem to contradict the walk of salvation. Such as believe and be baptized and thou shalt be saved verses Strive to enter in for I tell you many will strive and will not be able to enter. LK 13:24
We can't depend upon our own ability to do good. The key to victory is walking in the Spirit (Gal.5:16) . I have found that to truly be aglow with the Spirit it takes concerted effort and time with the Lord.
There are so many things that the Word tells us to do that really requires a good deal of time. God's word says, Now this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith (IJohn5:4) and then it says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. (Rom.10:17) It takes a lot of time to really learn the Word and then a lot of time in meditation for the Holy Spirit to bring that Word to life in us.
The word instructs us to worship and pray and fellowship with other believers and visit the "orphans and widows" and all the other things that are necessary to keep "our loins girded about and lights burning." (not getting into works here at all however we are instructed to let men see our good works so that they may glorify the Father)
I hear many with the grace message who appear to have taken it too far. It seems almost kin to Gnosticism which Paul fought against so hard.
I think that when looking at the scriptures we should always ask for understanding of the hard passages and not just take the ones that are "fluffy and pleasing" in order that we know what the Father is saying.
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receives the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that strives for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible (crown). I therefore run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beats the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. Icor9:25-26 (He probably did this by walking in the Spirit)
I have my seat belts installed and handrails attached (haha) because I want to finish the race. I am looking for a crown. I pray the Lord will show us step by step how to lay hold on eternal life as we fight the good fight of faith. I Tim.6:12
Lord awaken our hearts and open our ear
Teach us your word and how to walk in your fear
Amen
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I have been thinking about Romans Chapter 7. Arising early this morning with this on my mind the Lord lead me to study this out and showed me some really good news.
The problem that Paul was presenting was the law of sin in his members which was warring against the law of his mind and bringing him into captivity to the law of sin, which he said was in his members. (See Romans 7:23)
In Romans 8:2 he clearly states that the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made him free from the law of sin and death.
In verse 3 he says that God through Christ has condemned sin in the flesh.
And then he shows that it is possible to walk in the Spirit when he says that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
In Romans 6:4 he says, that we are buried with Christ in baptism to walk in newness of life-planted together in the likeness of his death we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection. (6:2 how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?)
Romans 6:14 Sin has no dominion over us because we are not under the law but under grace. (such good news) The grace of God has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lust we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. Titus 2:11&12 Grace is the power of God to overcome sin.
Romans 6:18 says we were made free from sin to be made the servants of righteousness and in verse 19 servants of righteousness unto holiness.
22 But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end everlasting life.
It is pretty clear that Romans chapter 7 is Paul's condition apart from the grace of God when he was under the law. In Chapter 8 he tells us that our victory is through Christ and realized as we walk in the Spirit. (The Spirit of Grace)
In Chapter 7 when he was under the law he was powerless to overcome the sin that was warring in his members when he was under the law.
But he had said in Romans 6:11 that we were to reckon ourselves to be dead indeed to sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 (you) let not sin reign in your mortal body that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
So what I gather from all this is that when we are overcome by the sins that war in our members it is because we are not oriented to the gospel as we should be and we are not walking in the Spirit. We are in a fight for our lives but the weapons that God has given us through Christ are enough to bring us through victoriously.
We have the Blood of Jesus, the Spirit of Grace, the Word of God, God's holy angels who are ministers for us who are heirs of salvation, the body of Christ and the promise of God that he is the Author and Finisher of our Faith and having begun a good work in us will see it through to the end being able to sanctify us wholly, spirit soul and body being preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calls you, who also will do it.
God is so good. He has not left us as orphans who have no one to care for them. The Spirit of Grace is with us. God is Abba Father.
I certainly have encouraged myself in the Word this morning. I pray that this has encouraged you also. God's grace be with you.
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I was listening to Corinthians in the car the other day and another verse hit me:
1 Corinthianso 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
I have wondered about the meaning of this verse. John Gills commentaries lean towards this only be in about pastors, but by reading the whole chapter, it appears this refers to anyone who sows seed to another by ministering the gospel to them as we're all called to do. But Gills take on it is that they'll still be saved but not without suffering loss here.
Verses 8 & 9 state...every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God...
Verse 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
I am unsure of this chapter but every time I read it it appears that we are saved and receive eternal life. But it appears there are degrees perhaps to how each will serve in eternity depending upon the work they do here.
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It appears that the Corinthians were not mature saints at all. They were arguing among themselves about who was greater based upon who they were baptized by and who they claimed to be following. Paul said they were carnal because there was envying, strife and jealously among them.
Paul was very upset by this because this sort of thing causes division in the church. Paul states that we are God's building. A building depends upon every stone being in place and each stone is important to maintain the integrity of the building.
He warns them that it is God who will determine the worth of a man's works and that if a man's works are of wood, hay, stubble, (no value) they will be burned up, but the man will be saved, yet so as by fire (lightening is the actual gr. word).
God loves the weak but there are consequences for not maturing. II Cor. 5:10 says we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. And he says here that it is possible to be found naked. I think the Spirit used this example to drive home to us how humiliating this would be.
I agree that there are degrees of rewards and they are given in direct proportion to the works we have done. 1 Cor. 15: 35 seems to allude to the differing glories in the resurrection. Daniel also spoke of those who lead many to righteousness shining like the stars in the firmament (Dan 12:3). In Malachi 3:16-18 God said that those who fear his name and spoke often of him among themselves shall be his in that day when I make up my jewels.... The faithful are considered jewels to God. Those who are lazy are considered wicked slothful servants. Mat. 25:26.
I think we can be guilty of the same carnality that these Corinthians were guilty of when we say things such as I am Lutheran or I am Catholic, or I am Baptist, or I am non-denominational. This can also be seen in those who take pride in their knowledge of spiritual things.
Notice in 1 Cor. 3:17 it says, "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. The same Greek word is used for both of these words. The warning here is concerning the danger the Corinthians were in of bringing division to God's building, the church. God wants unity. This is where he commands the blessing. Psalm 133. In John 17:11 Jesus' prayer for the church was that they be one as he and the Father are one.
I love the verse in Micah 6:8 which says, "He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God. Justice, mercy and humility should be utmost of our request from God.
This is the Kingdom of God and Jesus said if we seek him and his kingdom all things will be added to us. Mat. 6:33.
If we submit ourselves in humility to God he will work out the details of our lives and bring us through to maturity. The Living Bible says it this way in Philippians 2:13, For God is at work within you, helping you want to obey him, and then helping you do what he wants.
He is the best Abba Father in all of creation. He knows how to give good gifts to us that will help us to overcome. All we have to do is trust and obey every day. He that endures to the end shall be saved.
God help us to attain to all that you have for us by applying all the things that you have given us that pertain to life and godliness. May we be found faithful. Thank you for those who love you word and love learning so they can grow in your likeness. God bless us to mature and be able to discern between good and evil and go on into the maturity.
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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I love reading your replies, Helen....so full of Scripture and Truth.
"God help us to attain to all that you have for us by applying all the things that you have given us that pertain to life and godliness. May we be found faithful. Thank you for those who love you word and love learning so they can grow in your likeness. God bless us to mature and be able to discern between good and evil and go on into the maturity."
Amen.
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