All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Forgiveness
Luke 17:1-4
17 Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. 3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
In these Scriptures, is it referring to a personal sin against you or just a sin in general?
If it's speaking of a sin in general, does this mean we have the authority to forgive sins?
If he doesn't repent, do we have to forgive him because it says "IF" he repents?
2 Corinthians 2
5 But if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved Me, but all of you to some extent—not to be too severe. 6 This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow. 8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him. 9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. 10 Now whom you forgive anything, I also forgive. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ, 11 lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Again, here we see where if we forgive, then the Lord forgives. It seems to be general sin & not personal.
Vs 6, what punishment was inflicted by the majority? Maybe kicked him to the curb?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ribbon on
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To me its talking about forgiving the sinner. I never thought about forgiving sin itself. Is that possible? Just piping in...
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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But was the sin against the person or just them sinning. Say, for instance, they are going around town drunk. That's not necessarily against an individual but it does need to be addressed as a general congregation.
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the verses in 2 Corinthians 2 is way over my head. I look forward to reading biblical answers.
If the drunk belongs to the church ... to me that is going against his/her fellow brothers and sisters in Christ <---- my thoughts. They should be forgiven and then what des it say above... forgive and comforted and reaffirm your love. ??
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That's what I'm asking. What was the punishment? Kicked him out so they needed to reaffirm their love? The Lord says if they forgive them, He will too. That puts a lot of power in the hands of those who believe. Maybe that goes along with the verses Matt 18:18 Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
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I read it again and im not sure what the punishment was but wasn't he saying that the punishment was sufficient... like enough... and so now to forgive him . I think I had always believed him to be saying if you forgive others he would also forgive you. That's an entirely different verse and subject isn't it? I am not trying to learn you... I am just trying to figure this out with you. Hopefully LT or Richard or someone will come along and help us. Good questions Tammy.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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I have to head out, but will give some thoughts on this later today.
Lord Bless,
LT
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This subject has many aspects to it. I will seek to focus on what you specifically asked.
In these Scriptures, is it referring to a personal sin against you or just a sin in general?
The Word says "If your brother sins against you, ..." Thus, we are talking specific sin committed against us by the individual. We have no authority to forgive general (not committed against us) sins. We have two great illustrations from Scripture of people asking God to forgive the offense against them. 1) Jesus from the cross asks the Father to forgive them. He is not offering them salvation,, but asking that this offense, which they know not what they do, not be held against them. That did not forgive all sin, nor change the sin nature in them, both of which take place through salvation. 2) When Stephen was stoned to death he asked God to forgive them. We have the freedom to ask God to forgive the guilt perpetrated against us.
If it's speaking of a sin in general, does this mean we have the authority to forgive sins?
It does not speak to general sin and we do not have the authority to forgive sin, only Jesus can do that. Even where the disciples are told that if they forgive sin it will be forgiven does not mean salvation, but rather as they journeyed forth they would all face many oppressions. If they journeyed forth and held on to these actions performed against them they would have no desire to reach the lost which includes those who persecuted them.
If he doesn't repent, do we have to forgive him because it says "IF" he repents?
Again, using Jesus and Stephen as examples we see that the call to forgive them before Father God did not require repentance on their part. Repentance can lead to restoration (not to the way it was, but open the door to move forward). If we forgive people who have wronged us we are freed from the pain and released from the prison that holding on to the anger will keep us in. Healing does not come until the anger is gone. Anger will not go until forgiveness is given, forgiveness before Father God. When we have forgiven them before Father God, been released from our personal prison and no longer experience anger we will be more than willing to forgive them if they repent. This does not mean perfect restoration to the way is was before as already mentioned, nor does it mean that we instantly trust them. Forgiveness is free, trust is earned.
Again, here we see where if we forgive, then the Lord forgives. It seems to be general sin & not personal.
Vs 6, what punishment was inflicted by the majority? Maybe kicked him to the curb?
This man, believing it is the same man as in 1 Corinthians, was turned over to Satan for his good to shake him up and wake him up. He was not willing to repent and correct his evil behavior. The church cannot allow the cancer to remain and thus he is removed after attempts have been made to get him to come into alignment with God and he rejects. In the passage you have sited this time of being handed over to Satan has seemed to accomplish what God intended. He is coming back and has repented. The church isn't sure as to what they should do with him. Paul tells they are to reaffirm their love for him and receive him. If they reject him then Satan would win a victory because his repentance would have met cold shoulders and Satan could use that to his advantage. The church is always to receive the repentant ... only time will tell if it is true repentance, but we are to be open and over time extend trust as warranted.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Thank you for taking the time out to answer all of these questions. I was wondering if it was the same person who was sent to Satan. This was really informative & very helpful. Again, thank you.
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You are welcome. Not everyone agrees that it is the same person, but I think regardless if it is or is not that the same principle applies.
Lord Bless,
LT
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As a personal example, which my wife is ok with me sharing. She was abused many times growing up by a family member. This caused her, as expected, much pain and confusion in life. She told me about the abuse before we married (honesty is a positive step). I will not go over every step, but mention the highlights as connected to this topic. She took several years to be able to forgive the person before Father God, the anger was removed. Many years later this person came to know Christ and asked for her forgiveness ... which she was ready to extended because she had already dealt with it before God and given it to Him. Time proved that the person was truly repentant ... and no we did not extend trust around our children. Forgiveness and trust are two separate issues. Often, IMO, many say they either want to forgive or have forgiven yet in their heart they still want to see the perpetrator receive some kind of punishment. Their healing, in their view, cannot come until he pays for his crime. I think more often than not it is the opposite. Healing is not complete until we care more about the person than we do about our perceived personal justice. We could debate some of this using David's words found mostly in the Psalms. Yet, even there, we almost always find that by the end of his rant that God has changed his way of seeing things.
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