All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Is this what religion has become?
Religion:
Politics:
Religion:
Politics:
Romans 16:17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
Titus 3:1-2 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.
I really think the religious community needs to get above the political community. We, as Christians, are to be better than that and be example setters. But there are hundreds of videos out there of one religion bashing another or one Christian bashing another.
Just had a friend who is Charismatic post against Christian's trick or treating on Halloween. I asked if Romans 14:5-6 didn't come into play and he adamantly said no it doesn't. That we're playing with fire to do so. I didn't say anything further because it would be nothing more than an argument and friendships would suffer damage at that point. From the above scriptures, it's clear to me that we're to stay away from false prophets, or perhaps even away from those who's beliefs do not mesh with our own, but to keep away in this manner, rather than slander them. But due to my friend's posting, I did a bit of Halloween researching to settle my own thoughts on it. I will still take my son trick or treating because he likes candy as much as any child. Other than that, that's all it is to me...my child getting candy. But that's my choice and I don't ask anyone else to make that choice for themselves but do what is in their heart to do. Yet from all I read and other discussions, those dead set against it seemed to be so vocal against those who see nothing wrong with it and I wonder why is that? To do so, it seems to me that they are in violation of Romans 14, and Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Jesus stood against false teaching, but did so peaceably. He didn't go out and make videos and plaster them on television and the internet...and that wasn't just because TV and the internet hadn't yet been invented, but because it wasn't His nature. But sadly, the Christian community seems to be more and more like the secular one everyday.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Seek,
Several things need to be taken into account in this subject. In fact there is no way I can cover them all in this type of forum, nor do I believe I even no all of the variations. With that said let's look at a couple of things:
1) Just because some one professes to fly under the banner of Christianity that does not make it true. This is true of many of the popular teachers today and it is true of many of the people who aggressively attack the popular teachers today. Your concern is honorable, but you cannot protect the guilty nor can you effectively rebuke the faithless who attack the guilty. Many who profess to be Christians today are not children of God. This has been true since the inception of the church. Most are religionist who operate under a set of rules established by some people using the Bible as their back drop.
2) Jesus and the disciples warned us regarding false teachers. We are to do the same today. It is not OK to sit on the sideline and let heresy pass as truth. The false teaching must be challenged and exposed. If it is not challenged and exposed then many seekers will be enslaved by their heresy (By "their" I am talking about false teachers and am not addressing the list above. That is for another time). Which is worse, people battling over truth or people being allowed to be deceived by lies (false teaching)?
3) There does need to be rules that guide us when we address false teachings and false teachers. We need to address the teaching identifying the errors. If we do that then the rest will take care of itself, especially when we understand that some people will still choose to follow the false teacher even when the error has been exposed.
There is an old saying that goes something like this. "You reveal a crooked stick by laying a straight one next to it." We reveal the error by laying truth next to it.
Here are some Bible verses that specifically mention false teacher or false prophets:
Mat_7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Mat_24:11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Mat_24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
Luk_6:26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.
Act_13:6 They traveled through the whole island until they came to Paphos. There they met a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet named Bar-Jesus,
2Co_11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
2Co_11:26 I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers.
Gal_2:4 This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.
1Ti_1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
1Ti_6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
2Pe_2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
1Jn_4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Lastly, to your point that Jesus peacefully addressed the false teachers:
Mat 23:13-35 NIV84 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. (14) [Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Therefore you will be punished more severely.] (15) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. (16) "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' (17) You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? (18) You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' (19) You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? (20) Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. (21) And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. (22) And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. (23) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. (24) You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. (25) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. (26) Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. (27) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. (28) In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. (29) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. (30) And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' (31) So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. (32) Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers! (33) "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? (34) Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. (35) And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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The difference in the way Jesus handled it was directly to the Pharisees though. He didn't run off and post a billboard. The two above were the first choice of course because they're the most widely accused these days. However, they haven't been the only ones. In fact I saw a recent video of someone who was saying Joycer Myers was a false teacher. Being I'd never heard of this guy, I looked him up. Lo and behold, there were claims of him stealing funds from his church and living in a mansion he bought with those funds, etc. That's why I say it's like politics.
In the verses above, Paul said "false teachers", "false prophets". He could have easily named them, but he didn't. He wasn't out to bring up names and accuse. He either spoke directly to them as Jesus did or he spoke against their teachings rather than against a named individual. Politicians love to call out the name of their opponent and rather than focus on what THEY stand for, they focus on the negatives of the one they stand against. That's why this looks the same to me. Rather than standing upon what we stand for, we stand upon the names of those we stand against. Does that make sense?
I know that I can't protect the guilty, nor do I want to. And I know that I can't effectively rebuke the faithless who attack the guilty. What I am trying to do however is point this trap out to the faithful. I've fallen into it myself often enough that I would bring up a name to others and what I thought about their teachings and I've just felt it's wrong to do so. And as the political debates are all over the television to the point I get so sickened just trying to watch a show. In one commercial break you can get 2 to three political ad campaigns. One will bash another candidate, then that candidate's ad will come up next and bash the other candidate. Then sometimes a third candidate will show up and bash all the others. It's just deplorable and ruins television for awhile. All the signs deface the side of the roads, people nearly pushing their political sign in front of your windshield as you try to drive by. And the bigger problem...9 times out of 10, every single one of them are lying. Maybe 10 out of 10, but I wanted to give some benefit of the doubt.
And I'm just seeing Christianity doing very similar with evangelists on television downing other evangelists. I watched one one night on INSP and he talked about false teachers and the prosperity gospel. But he did so without naming any names, while the others kept bringing up the name of someone they wanted to oust. This guy (and I don't recall his name but he wasn't a huge name, some guy out in a western state somewhere, and only had perhaps 20 in the audience, which is why he was on late night), outshined all of them in my opinion because he didn't stoop to that level of a political campaign, but kept it Biblical in teaching against the false teaching itself, rather than focus on the names of the individuals he felt taught this. In other words, he taught the Gospel and taught what was false and left it to the viewers to decide who did or didn't fit into the false category. Handled that way, it didn't really leave any room for anyone to argue or debate his words since he took them straight from scripture rather than focus on trying to bring someone down. Then people would've said he just said those things because that person had a large following and he was jealous...or any other excuse. But by not pointing a finger, no one could point back.
Anyway, I'm just hoping to make people aware of how we're looking to those who are unsaved. Do they see any difference in us from the political ads they see on TV? Are we standing out as being apart and separate? Just as the Halloween discussion. I don't really see anything wrong with taking my child to get candy, some people do. Some hand out tracts to the kids, some hand out invites to trunk or treat at a local church, etc. Are we standing out if we do participate? Can anyone tell us from the non-saved?
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Quick response to the two sentences that jumped out at me before I read the whole post ...
The difference in the way Jesus handled it was directly to the Pharisees though. He didn't run off and post a billboard.
Jesus did it publicly when they were present and publicly at times when they were absent, but either way He addressed it publicly. Then we have the Bible that has shared that same warning down through the years and has been read by millions ... better than a billboard.
Anyway, I'm just hoping to make people aware of how we're looking to those who are unsaved
You do realize that standing against false teachers and teachings is at the core when done right and for the right reason is about seeking the lost, for a blind guide will only lead the blind and themselves into a pit. Truth will set them free, not ignored false teachings.
Lord Bless,
LT
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You do realize that false teaching does not always mean that only what they say is false, but there are heretics who leave out parts of Scripture and thus give a selected view of Scripture which in turns changes the meaning of the Word and therefore renders the teaching false.
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Please do not group those of us who stand against false teaching with every internet person who post some uninformed info on the internet. I trust you can differentiate between the two.
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In the verses above, Paul said "false teachers", "false prophets". He could have easily named them, but he didn't.
No, he could not have named every one as new people entered into the church regularly and he was away for long periods of time and information traveled relatively slowly in those days. The leaders of the local church were to use discernment regarding these false teachers, new and old.
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Do they see any difference in us from the political ads they see on TV? Are we standing out as being apart and separate?
The church (institution) has already been infiltrated. The majority, and I say this with confidence, but no statistics, in churches today are not saved ... they are religonist. The sad thing is that even without these "arguments" you mention most churches already look just like the world.
"... each generation is converted by the saint who contradicts it most.' G.K. Chesterton
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I'm not lumping anyone standing against false teachers. It's just one aspect. I'm trying to understand how we, as the truly saved (not those who sit in the pews unsaved), can actually stand apart. And things like any arguments here, like religious debates on television, celebrating Halloween, Christmas, Easter (you name it), our dress code, etc....are we standing out? Or have we conformed for the most part? That's my question.
I'm speaking of the church as a whole. My own church has at times done some things I didn't think were appropriate for a church and I wonder how it might look to those outside the church. But we all fail, individuals fail, and churches fail. I don't believe in all they do or teach but I also don't feel they're false. This is what they truly believe, such as tithing, which was a very big issue I wanted to learn about. But then, the outside world thinks...they just want our money. So they frown on religion. They see these debates on TV or on religious sites, they see churches all separated and each preaching something different aside from Christ, and they see this and decide this isn't something they want.
I'm questioning our being in the world but not of it. This thing about Halloween that I've seen brought up, and soon it'll be about whether or not we should celebrate Christmas. And if you look around the web, there is debate after debate on it. Sadly, there are actually more debating sites and articles on all these little issue online than there is about the Gospel. So I'm trying to find out how we can be in the world and not of it, how we can be accountable to one another, whatever works to bring people together as the body of Christ rather than what tears them apart. Because if we don't start coming together, Jesus will come back soon. And there are going to be a whole lot of people spending an eternity in hell...people that we love who call us hypocrites. The church can raise a voice up in this country and others and put an end to some of the nonsense going on right now, but we don't. We are concerted against one another instead of concerted against the evil and ungodly things going on in this world.
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OK. That is a completely different question (to me) from what you had originally posted. With that I will cease debating :-)
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Whenever you see me ask: Does that make sense?" It usually means I'm not sure I understand what I'm asking myself. LOL I have a jumble of thoughts going on and trying to get them out into words that don't sound jumbled.
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I understand your concern. The image of the church is often damaged by the actions of those who profess to be Christian. Yet, there are things that must be addressed, for if certain things go unchecked the end result inside the church would be worse than the risk to the image portrayed before those on the outside looking in.
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I'm thinking I'm just a worry wart even though we're not to worry. I worry what outsiders coming here think, what outsiders who attended our last (a bit over the top) VBS thought, whether I should have not thought it funny myself, what people are thinking when we go door to door trying to sell them on something even we can't portray...maybe why Jesus told the Pharisees that they tried to place burdens on people that even they couldn't keep.
I once went with my class to help a homeless man in need of clothes. He'd been drinking. We invited him to church but he wouldn't because he thought he can't go to church like he was. People either look at Christians as being holy or holier than thou. We told him that he doesn't clean up to go to God but that God cleans him up after.
Bottom line...I worry, therefore I am. Or something like it.
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