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Victoria Osteen & the response
Victoria Osteen – the “response” that shows she is a typical false teacher
by Sandy Simpson, 9/8/14
It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be “Christian” leaders are apparently NEVER able to admit when they are wrong. Makes you wonder if they are born again because acceptance of the Gospel will cause a person to repent of their sins which then gives them access to the forgiveness of Christ when they sin from that point on (1 John 1:9). But be that as it may, Victoria, the “co-pastor” and wife of Joel Osteen, fires back at the article in the Christian Post entitled: “Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your O... by claiming they lied about what she said. She claims in her statement back to them in the article called “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn... that they claimed that she said a person should not worship God.
"While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it," she told The Blaze in a statement Friday. "I did not mean to imply that we don't worship God; that's ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way." (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
That is not what they said at all. The title of the article is very specific in their correct analysis of her “ridiculous” statement – that she stated that “worship is not for God, it is for yourself”. So she lied in her response.
But the real problems are that she claims the following in her response:
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy … So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered. (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
So she not only did not apologize for her statements and lied about how people quoted her, but she reiterated their same, tired, false Word of Faith teaching again. She states that worshipping God is not for Him but for us. Why? Because when we are happy that makes God happy. Oh really? What about the stories of Job, Stephen, Paul suffering from a “thorn”, and all the other prophets and apostles who died serving God? They were not worshipping God so they could be “happy”, they were worshipping God because of Who He is!
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Love and worship for God is not predicated on how we feel or the amount of joy we have. It is predicated on obedience to Him BECAUSE HE IS GOD! Victoria also tells her audience that they need to “do good because God wants you to be happy”. We don’t do good so WE can be happy. That may be a consequence of doing good, at times, but the important thing is that, in the most difficult circumstances, we simply obey Him because we know He will be pleased with us on that basis. But our “happiness” is not the end. But it is for the Osteens. Almost every word of every message from them is the New Thought idea that we can create our own little world of happiness by simply thinking and speaking positively. I have written about this idea, which is basically Karma, in an article entitled “Karma (by any other name)”. God wants us to submit our will to His, not willfully try to create our own reality that is often not in line with His purposes.
Finally, the scary part is that the “congregants cheered” after Victoria finishes her diatribe. This reminds me of a warning from the Old Testament against heretics like the Osteens:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
Someday every person who has ever been born on this earth will answer to God for their actions. You can either fool yourself into thinking you are happy because of your positive thoughts and confessions, or you can follow God and obey Him, thus proving your love for Him. Better choose correctly because “what will you do in the end?”
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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I think I am going to take it back about what I said about copying and pasting. But, I want to hear what people think on here. I could go to my commentaries or online to get some ideas there. I did get just a little frustrated to ask a question and then get an answer from a commentary. I think the two docs pasted about salvation and the Osteens created a firestorm. Just erase my idea of not copying and pasting. It was a bad one.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I'm not a huge commentary fan myself. I like to hear what the members themselves believe about things. If I wanted to know what a particular person had to say about it, I would look it up myself. Now, I love commentaries, don't get me wrong. They have helped me through the years to understand what the word was saying. The "Got Questions" annoys me as well. Normally, I just don't even read those posts or replies from Got Questions unless it just strikes me at the moment or if I'm bored. ROFL. But I also understand why some post them from time to time. I just don't usually read them.
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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Okay Roy,
Watchman,
I believe in your comment you had quoted through verse 11. I mentioned that I wanted you to go one more verse which would be verse 12.
1 Cor. 6:12--All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
We are not using this verse as an excuse for sin, right? Because if we are then it goes against all of the Bible & the immediate verses preceding it.
Verses 12-20. - The inexcusable sin and shame of fornication. Verse 12. - All things are lawful unto me. The abruptness with which the phrase is introduced perhaps shows that, in the letter of the Corinthians to St. Paul, they had used some such expression by way of palliating their lax tolerance of violations of the law of purity. By "all things," of course, is only meant "all things which are indifferent in themselves." They erroneously applied this maxim of Christian liberty to that which was inherently sinful, and thus were tempted to "make their liberty a cloak of viciousness." St. Paul, as Bengel observes, often, and especially in this Epistle, uses the first persongenerally in gnomic or semi-proverbial sentences (1 Corinthians 6:15; 1 Corinthians 7:7; 1 Corinthians 10:23, 29, 30; 1 Corinthians 14:11). But. This is St. Paul's correction of too broad a formula. Are not expedient. St. Paul illustrates this in 1 Corinthians 8:8-10. We have no right to do even that which is innocent, if it be disadvantageous to the highest interests of ourselves or others. "He alone," says St. Augustine, "does not fall into unlawful things who sometimes abstains by way of caution even from lawful ones." Will not be brought under the power. The play of words in the original might be imitated by saying, "All things are in my power, but I will not be brought under the power of any." In other words, "boundless intemperance" may become a tyranny. The pretence of moral freedom may end in a moral bondage.
"Obedience is better than freedom? What's free?
The vexed foam on the wave, the tossed straw on the sea;
The ocean itself, as it rages and swells,
In the bonds of a boundless obedience dwells." I will be master even over my liberty by keeping it under the beneficent control of law and of charity.
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Hi Watchman,
I wonder if we could get that rule implemented on this forum that we are not allowed to just copy and paste. However, I have read the article you pasted. I am going to put the verse in a different version. The version is the Basic English version:
I am free to do all things; but not all things are wise. I am free to do all things; but I will not let myself come under the power of any.
Do you believe this is an accurate translation? This is basically how most interpret this verse.
Another question: I interpret your interpretation of Scripture as being that not only are we to believe in Jesus for salvation but we must succeed in overcoming all our sin as well. I think you are saying that basically all failures are lost. Only those that successfully overcome will be saved. Am I understanding you correctly?
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Funny Roy, I've seen many many copy and paste, got questions seems to be the most popular copy and paste, but now you'd like to make it a rule because I copied and pasted a commentary? :) You made me laugh, that's a good thing right? I guess that you didn't approve of the commentary?
But for you, I will reduce or completely eliminate my copy and paste.
If we're going to go to verse 12, may we go the whole way and just post the whole chapter? That is usually how I do it, so that it is in context, but many complain that I'm just posting a bunch of Scripture that they're not interested in reading...sadly.
1 Cor. 6: 13 and the rest of the way
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
My interpretation of Scripture says that we believe in Jesus for forgiveness of our sins and the promis of salvation, He is LORD of our lives, we throw ourselves into the arms of our Savior, we walk in the power of God, we flee temptation, we turn from evil and repent, we labor, we strive, we run the race set before us, we examine our hearts, we work out our salvation with fear and trembling, we overcome....now this is not done with the exclusion of faith or God, but to the inclusion of faith and God, this is what we believe and this is how we live according to what we believe. I don't need to continue in this tension with you to express what I believe. I believe Jesus is our Savior and He is Lord of our lives...both. You cannot not separate Jesus and say I will take your salvation but not your Lordship, I will not surrender or yield to you...you make me if you want, but I won't do it because I do love you, I just won't live for you. Is ls that what you are saying Roy? Because it sure does sound like it to me. And yes, to your question, those who overcome will be saved.
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Roy, I must admit that I, too, got a little chuckle out of copying & pasting. On another post someone had made the comment to Watchman that they didn't seek out commentaries for their interpretation. However, this person uses the site gotquestions.com ALL the time. It's the pot calling the pan black. I admire that she is no longer going to use them out of respect for you, I'm not that great of a person. ROFL
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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I use both commentaries and gotquestions, and just recently quoted Gill in a reply to Scribe, but only after studying it out for myself to see what I arrive at and then to compare what I have to what others are saying. It's the way I've always studied Scripture. I think we should all seek to please God and not worry or be concerned with what others think. The most important thing is that we seek truth and to be true. I see Roy's point as well. It's much easier, even after studying it out, to post the commentary or the article, but then it does give the appearance of "parroting" what someone else believes, even though it's the way you see it, too. I just recently learned that Gill preached in the same church as Spurgeon a hundred years earlier. I like Gill's commentary. I have posted from several other commentaries as well. We have to remember that commentaries are just another POV.
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I have to admit I like gotquestions and their approach.
Question: "Who is S. Michael Houdmann?"
Answer: S. Michael Houdmann is the Founder, President, and CEO of Got Questions Ministries, the parent ministry for GotQuestions.org. We rarely receive questions about S. Michael Houdmann, and that is a good thing. He does not want GotQuestions.org to be about him. He does not want people to accept or reject the answers given at GotQuestions.org because of name recognition. Rather, his hope is that people will accept or reject GotQuestions.org answers because they have read them, compared them with the Word of God, and prayed about them – and determined them to be true and biblical.
http://www.gotquestions.org/S-Michael-Houdmann.html
I seek to apply that approach to everything I read, from commentaries, articles, and even comments in discussions -- that is, compare them with God's Word and pray about them, talk with others, and ask for wisdom and discernment from God, most of all. -
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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I do see your setting yourself up almost equal to God as if you have a special channel into His throne.
I'm not sure I'd put it that way. I've thought self righteous, but I think it's just that she's so passionate that she speaks first before thinking which we are all guilty of at times. But what you've pointed out when she questions if others believe God and using always and never qualifiers is what causes it to appear this way and what gets people offended. And once offense begins, communication has a total breakdown.
Watchman, the point is not to insult you but can't you see how it can be insulting to others when you keep questioning their faith just because they have some differences in how they interpret particular scriptures or how they may have a different belief in what, as has been discussed here lately, are nonessential issues? I think this is where Roy says he feels you set yourself up as God because you appear to judge the sincerity of others Christianity based on whether they agree with all your interpretations of scripture. Not one of us have all the answers and are always learning. Five or six years from now, some of what you believe now may change as more and more is revealed. I've had a lot of my beliefs change from the initial belief. And I'm sure more will become clear as I continue along God's path for me.
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Yes, Seek, you are correct. I agree that my terminology was incorrect. I mentioned above somewhere or maybe on the next page that I consider Watchman my sister. Sometimes brothers and sisters can get into it. I certainly have with my siblings. But, we love one another deeply. That is what God wants in all of us. I love my brothers and sisters here on AAG.
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This is where I mentioned to Janie in another discussion that earth is sort of a mirror into the Kingdom of God.
We start out as babes and grow into adults in both our earthly physical bodies and in our spiritual Kingdom souls.
But here too, we are siblings that fight on occasion with a heavenly father who will spank us when we get out of line...just like on earth as it is in heaven. ;-)
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