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Victoria Osteen & the response
Victoria Osteen – the “response” that shows she is a typical false teacher
by Sandy Simpson, 9/8/14
It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be “Christian” leaders are apparently NEVER able to admit when they are wrong. Makes you wonder if they are born again because acceptance of the Gospel will cause a person to repent of their sins which then gives them access to the forgiveness of Christ when they sin from that point on (1 John 1:9). But be that as it may, Victoria, the “co-pastor” and wife of Joel Osteen, fires back at the article in the Christian Post entitled: “Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your O... by claiming they lied about what she said. She claims in her statement back to them in the article called “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn... that they claimed that she said a person should not worship God.
"While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it," she told The Blaze in a statement Friday. "I did not mean to imply that we don't worship God; that's ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way." (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
That is not what they said at all. The title of the article is very specific in their correct analysis of her “ridiculous” statement – that she stated that “worship is not for God, it is for yourself”. So she lied in her response.
But the real problems are that she claims the following in her response:
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy … So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered. (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
So she not only did not apologize for her statements and lied about how people quoted her, but she reiterated their same, tired, false Word of Faith teaching again. She states that worshipping God is not for Him but for us. Why? Because when we are happy that makes God happy. Oh really? What about the stories of Job, Stephen, Paul suffering from a “thorn”, and all the other prophets and apostles who died serving God? They were not worshipping God so they could be “happy”, they were worshipping God because of Who He is!
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Love and worship for God is not predicated on how we feel or the amount of joy we have. It is predicated on obedience to Him BECAUSE HE IS GOD! Victoria also tells her audience that they need to “do good because God wants you to be happy”. We don’t do good so WE can be happy. That may be a consequence of doing good, at times, but the important thing is that, in the most difficult circumstances, we simply obey Him because we know He will be pleased with us on that basis. But our “happiness” is not the end. But it is for the Osteens. Almost every word of every message from them is the New Thought idea that we can create our own little world of happiness by simply thinking and speaking positively. I have written about this idea, which is basically Karma, in an article entitled “Karma (by any other name)”. God wants us to submit our will to His, not willfully try to create our own reality that is often not in line with His purposes.
Finally, the scary part is that the “congregants cheered” after Victoria finishes her diatribe. This reminds me of a warning from the Old Testament against heretics like the Osteens:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
Someday every person who has ever been born on this earth will answer to God for their actions. You can either fool yourself into thinking you are happy because of your positive thoughts and confessions, or you can follow God and obey Him, thus proving your love for Him. Better choose correctly because “what will you do in the end?”
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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I gave two comments in the above questioned post.
Comment One:
Sorry, but I do not see the length of the seventh day as any different than the previous 6.
This comment states that I believe day 7 is equal in time to days 1 through 6. Since I have repeatedly stated I believe in 6 literal days of creation in this forum and the other I did not see the need to type all that out again.
Comment two:
Relating to your secondary question in the description of creation we see literal time, whether we accept it as literal 24 hours or literal long periods of time it is still traceable time. The verses posted by Seek relate to how time relates to God, who is unchanging, never ages and is the Creator of time. To Him a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. He is unaffected by time. At the same time He established time and uses time in the description of Creation. Two very different things.
The second comment simply states that because God is the Creator of time, who uses time, put man in time, but is not bound by time is thus not affected by time. He is unchanging and never ages. Thus, for clarity, He is unaffected by the six days of creation as 24 hours (which is what I believe), but for the sake of argument even if it were the other (long periods) it would not change anything regarding God. Therefore, when we read the two verses you posted we see that they are talking specifically about time and its relationship to God ... He is unaffected, sees the past, present and future as the same to the exception of the fact that He created a timeline for man and chooses to work within that timeline, but is not bound by that time line.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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LT
Typing it out doesn't provide explanation of what still isn't clear. It's the explanation that's needed as I still don't know if you believe each of the 7 days were 24 hour days or long periods of time.
The reason being if His day can be a long period, short period, instant, whatever He wants, then it could have been much longer than a human idea of a day and the earth aging more as each of His creation days passed, since it's the age of earth that is being discussed. -
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Ok. One more try :-)
I believe in the literal 24 hour day. That each of the six days and even the seventh was a single 24 hour day.
My point, that is getting mixed up is that God is not affected by time. He established it, but He Himself is not affected by time. He does not change. He is the same today as He was when He created, and is the same as He was before creation came into existence ... He also will be the same 50,000 years from now. The passing of a day has no effect on Him. We also know that the Creator of time is not bound by time. He exists outside of time for the Creator cannot be directed by His creation. The creation is subject to the Creator. Thus, since He is not affected by time, lives outside of and apart from time a day to Him is not different that a thousand years, to the exception that He established the clock, set man in time and has relevant events that take place within time because He deems it to be so.
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Ahh See I always wondered about the day is like a thousand days part if God's days of creation were longer than what we associate with a day and that's why the earth might appear older to scientists. The only two ways I could think to explain why earth seems to date older are:
1) The idea that the waters were here before the earth and the water are therefore ancient. So when the world was covered with the waters, that affected it.
2) God's 6 days is longer than 6 days to us.
3) God simply made an earth as old as He wanted it to be.
Just conjecture as I'm probably wrong on all three counts. I'm sure we'll all find out just how wrong we've been about a whole lot of things one day. LOL
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Hi Group,
For the record......
I'm throwin' in with Seek., Amanda, and LT here.
I Timothy 1:3-4, : As I urged you when I went into Macedonia - remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, (4) nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith." (N.K.J.V.).
Grace and Peace to one and all.
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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"I think I am going to take it back about what I said about copying and pasting. But, I want to hear what people think on here. I could go to my commentaries or online to get some ideas there. I did get just a little frustrated to ask a question and then get an answer from a commentary. I think the two docs pasted about salvation and the Osteens created a firestorm. Just erase my idea of not copying and pasting. It was a bad one."
I think that I have stated over and over again what I believe Roy. I don't think that I've swayed from that belief. You asked me a couple of questions about the verses that I posted and I replied with the pulpit commentary on each, of which, I find very sound biblically speaking. I believe the Pulpit commentary is less about opinion and more on the actual words being spoken, but I could be wrong.
I'm not sure what "two docs" pasted about salvation you are talking about....unless you are talking about the Scriptures and the pulpits commentary I posted?
But to say that those two docs and the Osteens created a firestorm, I beg to differ with you. It was, in fact, Victoria's comments that created the firestorm. Joel and Victoria are reknown for their prosperity Gospel and their milque toast views on Christianity...Their view is limited and horizontal,and very Me motivated. While they have been defended they continue to tout the same language without apology.
I also read your reply to LT. I hope to believe that we agree on more than we disagree, except sin. Sin isn't so much about us, as it is about us offending our Creator. Yes, sin has terrible consequences on us, but that is not the main theme. God is our main theme, not us, it's always about Him, always will be about Him, never has been about you and me....except in the theme of us being redeemed and that too, is to His Glory, Honor, and Praise.
I have more to say...but I am very tired, it's going to be a very long week.
Love you dearly Roy.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Watchman, I'm not sure about the two docs - the document about lordship salvation did cause some controversy as well as this forum on the Osteens. Maybe "firestorm" is a little too much but I think it is pretty descriptive of what has occurred. That statement was not directed as to who was right or wrong. It was just an observation. I would guess that we do agree on much more than on what we disagree on. It's just those minor differences that cause so much division in the church. Some can live with them while others cannot. You and I, well we might fall a little into that latter category - maybe a little too much. I do believe that as we put our beliefs out there being challenged is good for us.
Blessings and love to you as well.
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