All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
When are we no longer new Christians and can we learn from them?
In last Sundays group, my friend Michael, saved one month before I was, said he's a new Christian. I spoke to him about this later. I guess due to his younger age, he's not as bothered with wanting to grow up fast. And I need to not be bothered by it myself even at my age as it only causes agitation.
Then in last night's Saturday group we were discussing spending time in the Word. Michael admitted he doesn't do this enough and finds it slacking with his schedule. But then our praise and worship leader Pastor Jamie said he too has trouble in that area. He feels led to worship and spends much of his time in the music ministry and church work that he doesn't spend enough time in the Word cause he wants to worship so much. It seems as if nearly everyone there doesn't spend every day in scripture. And I've felt condemned if I missed a day. But God gave me something for Jamie even as long as he's done this. I said Jamie, reading the Word, spending time getting to know God IS worship. Something he and others hadn't considered.
Sooo...when are we no longer new and when can we not learn even from new? Jesus said to be as little children...innocent, trusting, always learning. But we're also to grow up. Sometimes though I think we can forget the simplest beginnings when we get so caught up in wanting to grow up. So part of me wants meat and part hopes to always remain a child.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Absolutely they should be being taught. Yet we find two things that is way to common today:
1) Many churches are to interested in reaching and retaining instead of teaching and challenging.
2) Most people are not interested in learning doctrine. Just look at the average church (even you're church), what is the percentage of the Sunday Morning Worship attendees who come to a Sunday School class, small group, workshop or other teaching (learning) opportunities?
I will stop there for now :-)
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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1) Many churches are to interested in reaching and retaining instead of teaching and challenging.
I'm wondering though if it's not that they're not interested in teaching as in they're not teaching enough. What I mean by that is we have Sunday School class and Bible studies. However, they are general lessons. There is no class for discipleship and no basic lessons for beginners...a "Basics" class. Which goes to the second question.
2) Most people are not interested in learning doctrine. Just look at the average church (even you're church), what is the percentage of the Sunday Morning Worship attendees who come to a Sunday School class, small group, workshop or other teaching (learning) opportunities?
LOLOL Do you really wanna know? We have approximately 200 i n Sunday worship, 40 in Sunday School, about the same in the in-home studies, and about 30 in Wednesday night services. And they are all the same crowd at these.
Which is why when our church tried to start a new converts class, it didn't work out. No one was interested in attending. And in that aspect, many didn't understand life groups or know anyone. They were new. It's at this point, we need to be aware of those recently converted and get close to them to be sure they are fed.
I had to struggle through so much and if it weren't for the personal time with my Sunday School teacher who became my good friend, I would've struggled a lot longer. I truly believe God sent her to our church for a couple of specific purposes...one being me. She and her husband both felt led to come to our church just at the point I was saved and they both felt called elsewhere about a year ago. But how many would ask the teacher these questions they have out of fear of looking foolish? That's why we need to target them so-to-speak and not wait for the questions to surround them later but to teach them first.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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>>"I think that's a major problem. People assume that all Christians know the essentials, even new Christians. But how can they if it is never taught? How can they if the different denominations cannot even come to an agreement on it?"
Yes, there are churches and groups that elevate a freedom in Christ up to an essential doctrine and even teach if it isn't followed, it is sin and must be confessed and repented.
Some things that I once believed were major issues but now understand them to be only minor and debatable matters are the use of musical instruments in worship and when to take holy communion and losing salvation. Style of worship is a debatable matter, and, really, once I searched the New Testament myself for a commandment about how often to take communion, I only found Jesus saying, "Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me" which is repeated in 1 Cor 11:25. I won't get into losing salvation, except to say it is a secondary issue. However, salvation by grace is an essential doctrine, and that's where things get a little tricky there. -
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From just reading scripture, I understand the essentials to be the Gospel...the good news. The rest, Scripture, is useful for training and rebuking in how one should live. Therefore, it is essential in its own as the training part once one accepts and believes the Gospel.
I like how one site puts it in relation to attending church, giving, communion, etc.:
the above activities has nothing to do with what Christ has done for us, but all about what we do for him. -
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Soteriology is an essential doctrine. The Gospel message itself has essentials in it.
Question: "What are the essentials of the gospel message?"
Answer: The word gospel means “good news,” which is the message of forgiveness for sin through the atoning work of Jesus Christ. It is essentially God’s rescue plan of redemption for those who will trust in His divine Son in order to be reconciled to a just and holy God. The essential content of this saving message is clearly laid out for us in the Bible.
In the apostle Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he lays out the content of the gospel message, “Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).
In this passage, we see three essential elements of the gospel message. First, the phrase “died for our sins” is very important. As Romans 3:23 tells us, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” The reality of sin needs to be acknowledged by all who approach the throne of God for salvation. A sinner must acknowledge the hopelessness of his guilt before God in order for forgiveness to take place, and he must understand that the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Without this foundational truth, no gospel presentation is complete.
Second, the person and work of Christ are indispensable components of the gospel. Jesus is both God (Colossians 2:9) and man (John 1:14). Jesus lived the sinless life that we could never live (1 Peter 2:22), and, because of that, He is the only one who could die a substitutionary death for the sinner. Sin against an infinite God requires an infinite sacrifice. Therefore, either man, who is finite, must pay the penalty for an infinite length of time in hell, or the infinite Christ must pay for it once. Jesus went to the cross to pay the debt we owe to God for our sin, and those who are covered by His sacrifice will inherit the kingdom of God as sons of the king (John 1:12).
Third, the resurrection of Christ is an essential element of the gospel. The resurrection is the proof of the power of God. Only He who created life can resurrect it after death, only He can reverse the hideousness that is death itself, and only He can remove the sting that is death and the victory that is the grave’s (1 Corinthians 15:54–55). Further, unlike all other religions, Christianity alone possesses a Founder who transcends death and who promises that His followers will do the same. All other religions were founded by men and prophets whose end was the grave.
Finally, Christ offers His salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15; 6:23), that can only be received by faith, apart from any works or merit on our part (Ephesians 2:8–9). As the apostle Paul tells us, the gospel is “the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile” (Romans 1:16). The same inspired author tells us, “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).
These, then, are the essential elements of the gospel: the sin of all men, the death of Christ on the cross to pay for those sins, the resurrection of Christ to provide life everlasting for those who follow Him, and the offer of the free gift of salvation to all.
Recommended Resources: Faith Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine of Justification by R.C. Sproul and Logos Bible Software.
http://www.gotquestions.org/gospel-message.html -
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After regeneration and justification, works follow. It may take time before the new life is evidenced in the newly saved and regenerated person. A seed sprouts and then grows and then bears fruit. Ephesians 2:8-10
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I have spent a lot of time studying and seeking out what are the essential doctrines over the past four years, as my faith has been undergoing a rebuilding.
Here is a list that maybe will help you as you study this:
The Doctrine of the Scriptures -- what is the truth about the Bible, also called Bibliology
Theology, also called the Doctrine of God
Christology, also called the Doctrine of Christ
Pneumatology, also called the Doctrine of the Holy Spirit
Anthropology, also called the Doctrine of Man
Soteriology, also called the Doctrine of Salvation -
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Here is a list that maybe will help you as you study this:
The Doctrine of the Scriptures -- what is the truth about the Bible, also called Bibliology
Theology, also called the Doctrine of God
Christology, also called the Doctrine of Christ
Pneumatology, also called the Doctrine of the Holy Spirit
Anthropology, also called the Doctrine of Man
Soteriology, also called the Doctrine of SalvationI will never understand why they have to make things so utterly difficult. If it were me, it would be:
Bibliology = doctrine of the Bible
Godology = doctrine of God
Christology = doctrine of Christ
Spiritology = doctrine of the Holy Spirit
Manopology = doctrine of Man (also known as something you will rarely experience)
Salvationology = doctrine of SalvationThere now. Isn't that more easily understood?
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Lol! It's like the word "apologetics" which the Greek word for it means speaking in defense, not needing to apologize for what one believes :)
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David, that's a great way of saying it -- "One does not know the essentials until one lives by the essentials." It's kind of like people posting the ten commandments in their home, their yard, or wanting them to be posted in their school or workplace. If they aren't written on the heart, what does it matter?
I've learned, very simply, that what pleases God has been internalized within us through the new birth. We not only have received a new spirit but we have received a new heart and have been made spiritually alive. 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. Ezekiel 36, NASB
I understand that the mind, will, emotions, and intellect (the soul) are undergoing a process of transformation that begins at new birth. The new spirit is fully sanctified but the transformation of the soul is not instant but rather begins at the moment of regeneration and progresses over one's life. The flesh remains unregenerated and this is why there is a battle between the spirit and the flesh.
Renewing the mind as mentioned in Romans 12:1-2 involves being enlightened and transformed through reading and studying God's Word, praying, and abiding in Christ. Then bad attitudes and wrong beliefs are gradually transformed as we see more and more of the truth and repent, realizing we have been wrong. Then we are called to walk in that new light as we receive it. The flesh, of course, battles against us. The Spirit convinces, convicts, prods, leads, guides, teaches (causes us to walk in His statutes and to be careful to observe His ordinances.) When you are doing something that isn't pleasing God, the Spirit lets you know but never condemns. Those thoughts of condemnation, when experienced by a child of God, are not from God and are arguments that need to be inwardly cast down and taken captive.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Amanda,
Bravo! Praise God who is worthy of all praise for the work of His Son and the Holy Spirit in His Church. Very "biblical" stated sister.
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