All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
God or the devil?
Before you leave your mouth hanging open too long on that title, my question is simply this....
A member here was considering involvement in something when two small tragedies struck their home in the last two weeks.
I have heard it said that that is when you press on through, that it's satan keeping you from doing what God wants you to do.
Ok...what if it's not satan? What if it's God saying DON'T!? How does one know the difference? I know we can't just ascribe things that go wrong in our lives to God or satan either because God says we'll have trouble. He didn't say that satan is going to cause every trouble in our lives, just that we'll have it. So why assume satan is fighting you from moving forward or that God is stopping you from making a mistake, or perhaps that it's neither?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Well I'm on Part II, but something you said brings up another point on this...
You said you can't expect God will heal you if you're living in sin. This creates a problem at times in that...what is sin? I see the sins as adultery, fornication, idolatry, etc. But what about where he said if you even look at a woman with lust you've committed adultery. So then what if you have a bad thought? They come up frequently. You don't act on them, but the thought comes anyway. What if you try with all your might to forgive someone but still feel the hurt, or you try to stay peaceful yet you get stressed, you try to walk in love and sometimes are irritated? This one has pecked at me for years...what is sin when people speak of living in sin. I've read Gill on this many times, but his explanations still don't seem to settle this for me.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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To clarify ... failing is not living in sin. Living in sin is to live in rebellion against God. We all stumble and fail, though that does not make it right or acceptable, but is still different from one who has looked at God ... His Word ... and chooses to ignore both and chooses to live the way they wish. Hope that helps clarify.
Added note: This rebellion could be in all areas of life or in specific areas of life.
Starting a new thread in the forum using this comment
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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In Jesus' death we see that it was God who was pleased to put his son to death. We also see human responsability and demonic intrusions.
In all things - ultimately only what God allows to happen happens. He has no issues holding demons and humans responsible for their wickedness, even when that wickedness is working his good pleasure out.
Joseph Comforts his Brothers
…19But Joseph said to them, "Do not be afraid, for am I in God's place? 20"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive. 21"So therefore, do not be afraid; I will provide for you and your little ones." So he comforted them and spoke kindly to them.Joseph Knew God was behind his trials and He was ok with that. God holds the agents of evil responsible for evil even when it is him who has the last word in all matters of the universe.
Question: "Who was responsible for Christ's death? Who killed Jesus?"
Answer: The answer to this question has many facets. First, there is no doubt the religious leaders of Israel were responsible for Jesus’ death. Matthew 26:3-4 tells us that “the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, assembled together to the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas. And they consulted so that they might take Jesus by guile and kill Him.” The Jewish leaders demanded of the Romans that Jesus be put to death (Matthew 27:22-25). They couldn’t continue to allow Him to work signs and wonders because it threatened their position and place in the religious society they dominated (John 11:47-50), so “they plotted to put Him to death” (John 11:53).
The Romans were the ones who actually crucified Him (Matthew 27:27-37). Crucifixion was a Roman method of execution, authorized and carried out by the Romans under the authority of Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor who sentenced Jesus. Roman soldiers drove the nails into His hands and feet, Roman troops erected the cross and a Roman solider pierced His side (Matthew 27:27-35).
The people of Israel were also complicit in the death of Jesus. They were the ones who shouted, “Crucify Him! Crucify Him!” as He stood on trial before Pilate (Luke 23:21). They also cried for the thief Barabbas to be released instead of Jesus (Matthew 27:21). Peter confirmed this in Acts 2:22-23 when he told the men of Israel “you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified and put to death” Jesus of Nazareth. In fact the murder of Jesus was a conspiracy involving Rome, Herod, the Jewish leaders and the people of Israel, a diverse group of people who never worked together on anything before or since, but who came together this one time to plot and carry out the unthinkable – the murder of the son of God.
Ultimately, and perhaps somewhat amazingly, it was God Himself who put Jesus to death. This was the greatest act of divine justice ever carried out, done in “the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God” (Acts 2:23) and for the highest purpose. Jesus’ death on the cross secured the salvation of countless millions and provided the only way God could forgive sin without compromising His holiness and perfect righteousness. Christ’s death was God’s perfect plan for the eternal redemption of His own. Far from being a victory for Satan, as some have suggested, or an unnecessary tragedy, it was the most gracious act of God’s goodness and mercy, the ultimate expression of the Father’s love for sinners. God put Jesus to death for our sin so that we could live in sinless righteousness before Him, a righteousness only possible because of the cross. “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
So we who have come to Christ in faith are guilty of His blood, shed on the cross for us. He died to pay the penalty for our sins (Romans 5:8; 6:23). In the movie "The Passion of the Christ," the director, Mel Gibson, was the one whose hands you see actually driving the nails through Christ's hands. He did it that way to remind himself, and everyone else, that it was our sins that nailed Jesus to the cross.
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Well that's not really getting the answer I'm looking for so I'll pose a scenario.
Let's say you feel called to sing. You have a good voice and love singing. You try and try but it never seems to work out. One week you get laryngitis. No sooner are you over it then you need your tonsils removed. Your throat heals and you start to sing again and the church you're in divides over something...the congregation parts ways. You go to a new church but they already have a praise team. You wait for a chance and months go by, perhaps a couple years even. You either stick it out waiting or find another church that might give you the opportunity to lead praise and worship.
In any event, say things like this go on for years and you never really get the chance to sing the way you felt you were meant to sing.
All along you know you have a desire to sing and you think that old devil is trying to block you from moving forward. But at some point...I dunno, maybe when you're 60, you start thinking maybe it wasn't God's will that you sing. Say you reach that decision earlier like at 40 and turn your attention to teaching kids. You do well in this and spend many wonderful years teaching children about Jesus and enjoy seeing their smiles.
So...at what point do we decide to change our direction? If we keep waiting on God to open a door and we don't see it, do we wait till its too late to change direction? Do we just leave it all to chance figuring whatever move we decide to make must be God's will for us?
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Permalink Reply by Tawny Ealy on
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I think thats a good question. I think one example of when God's stopping us to do something is when ther is a prompting of the Holy SPirit .this example is in Acts 16:6- They went through the countries of Phrygia and Galatia. The Holy Spirit kept them from preaching the Word of God in the countries of Asia. I think the Holy SPirit wil convict us about things, and tell us things As the word of God says in John 14:26- The Helper is the Holy Spirit. The Father will send Him in My place. He will teach you everything and help you remember everything I have told you. ANd plus with us being his sheep we listen to His Voice and He is our Shephard. Psalm 23:1, and John 10:2-5. The devil main involvement is to bring destruction, and all things that bring confusion. John 10:10, and James 3:15-16. But true not everything is related to devil in some cases. Some things are because of choice we made. Like we reap what sowed. We follow are own consels and then we suffer from that choice. Look at Psalm 81:12 and Galatians 6:8. Thats just may take it out.
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That gets difficult though when one has spent the majority of life listening to lies. You can hear an entire party going on inside and be unable to pick out the participants. Training isn't an overnight deal. It takes time and effort.
I think many today also make it even more difficult because they come up with these cookie cutter statements like:
- Which answer brings peace?
- What's God telling you to do?
- Stand still and wait till you get a clear answer from God?
OK God. I'm not moving here. But I really would like you to tell me if I should get out of the way of the oncoming truck or sit here and he'll go around me. God? Any minute now? You're cutting this a bit close Lord.
I really love when they say: what does scripture say?
Last I checked I didn't see scripture mention anything about which job offer I should accept or what house I should buy.
I hear people constantly talking about what God said this morning, last night, an hour ago...
They attribute everything they hear internally to God telling them. If that's how He operates, why we He instruct us to get wisdom? We don't need wisdom if God is telling us every step.
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Is this the new thread? LOL I get confused on the "new threads". I'm always thinking you mean a new discussion.
See that's something that bothered me for so long...sin. Was it sinning to get upset at the driver who cut me off? I still find myself sometimes speeding up a bit when the guy behind me whips out and revs it up to 90 just to cut back in between me and the car in front of me because they're so impatient. And I start praying God help me to not let what others do upset me like that or that I not feel a need to speed up and stop him from jumping in there and just lay back and let him do whatever. And I've always felt that was sin. Or if you don't jump to do something for someone else because you're worn out that you're being selfish and that was sin. So that's why I said when we say living in sin it can confuse people. I was really confused by it, and to an extent it does still bother me. I keep telling myself that I've seen growth in areas like traffic. I used to have a terrible road rage but don't drive that way anymore. I've even forced myself to get behind the slowest car on the interstate to make myself keep calm. LOL But sometimes no matter how much I try, calm don't stay calm. I want it to, try to get it to, get upset when it don't...which is another problem, getting upset with getting upset. Aye aye aye.
But I question it because there are many who don't commit adultery, steal, cheat, lie, murder, etc., and who go out of their way to help others, who still aren't righteous. Sometimes I think I think too much. Ya think?
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Seek,
In my situation, two negative things happened within five days of each other, and both have impacted my life to a certain extent where I must adjust and be "inconvenienced" and the insight I've received for my own situation is simply that God is saying to me that I wasn't ready to take the training and become a volunteer advocate right now.
I'm not ready because I'm not able to handle even minor stress very well, let alone the kind of stress that I once juggled while holding down a full time job, being a mom and wife, working in the community and attending church and its various functions, such as leading children's church, etcetera.
Also, I haven't healed from the sexual violence I've experienced in my own life. God isn't in a hurry. Why should I be? God has a timetable for me. That the door at the crisis center remains open for me to take the training to be able to help as a crisis line counselor and a hospital advocate is a sign to me that God is calling me to that. It's just not the right time.
I'm not saying God caused the two negative events. My belief is that God is Sovereign and is all-powerful but it does seem that man resists God. Yet, this resistance is, in some mysterious way, a manifestation of God's will, for God allows man the liberty to obey or disobey.
I don't know what caused the woman to slam into the back of my son's car on the highway when he was doing everything right. Her reason was that she didn't see him. I don't know what would cause someone not to see another vehicle on the road right in front of them, when it's a straight stretch and there's only two lanes. To not see the road in front of her, was she having a seizure without being aware of it? Was she texting? I don't know the answers. Did demons blind her so that she could see everything else except my son's car? It beats me.
That my son wasn't hurt worse -- was that God's protection? The driver's seat fully collapsed and broke. The car was totaled. She hit him at 55 mph, and he was sitting still, waiting to make a left turn. He was actually turning in to the vet's to pick up a medication for his dog, Corbin, when she hit him. What does that mean? Am I not supposed to help Corbin recover? Why didn't it happen to me a few days ago, when I first took Corbin to the vet after his back legs became paralyzed? That day I thought the vet would say to euthanize him.
Instead, I found there is some hope for the little guy. Did I make bad choices that led to Corbin's paralysis? The vet told me that dachsunds are known to have this happen to them just from aging and with normal activity. Yet, I did let Corbin become a little overweight. Plus, I've let him be very active. My fault.
I can't live with the guilt though and all the questions. I do blame myself for almost every bad thing that happens in my life. I should have gone to the vet myself that day when Cameron had the accident. I should have done this, done that, done the other, done anything except what I do because everything I do is always wrong. I should let others make all the decisions and not ask others to do things. On and on and on. Shame, blame, guilt.
You see, I don't know either if it's God, Satan, me, or others and the world, or all of it together. I just have to trust in Romans 8:28.
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That's what started me thinking on this. Even you say: the insight I've received for my own situation is simply that God is saying to me that I wasn't ready....
And I wonder, was God really saying that? Was satan just fighting you moving forward in something? Or was it just one (or two) of those things and was neither saying anything? It depends on what person of what faith you talk to on what day of the week under what constellation arrangement under what sign. LOL
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Well, I made the decision to not go to the training due to the added stress. Most likely, others not in the same situation of dealing with the same past experiences as I have been dealing with and struggling with depression, could have gone on with everything, just as planned, making the necessary adjustments, just as I did, all my life. So, yes, it is an insight for me. I'm not ready to go back out into the world and be in it but not of it. I'm not ready to handle that stress. I need to grow in my trust of God and need more mind renewing and more healing. The two added stressors just proved it to me. I wouldn't say God caused them, but God permitted them. I trust God will use them according to Romans 8:28.
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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"I gotta hand it to JB, he hit the nail squarely on the head when he brought up that Jesus won't return until we all reach unity of faith.
Is that really what the totality of Scripture teaches? Does it really teach that we as believers will move toward a oneness on earth so that we agree with each other on all issues before Christ returns ... is that unity? ... no, unfortunately it does not teach that. I love JB, though he and I see eye-to-eye on many things and disagree on other things, this is one we will disagree on since you brought it into the conversation."
No, this is a false belief. Jesus will return, to some who are expectant and to others who are not ready.
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Seek,
Started a new thread in the forum using this comment that is also posted to your previous comment.
To clarify ... failing is not living in sin. Living in sin is to live in rebellion against God. We all stumble and fail, though that does not make it right or acceptable, but is still different from one who has looked at God ... His Word ... and chooses to ignore both and chooses to live the way they wish. Hope that helps clarify.
Added note: This rebellion could be in all areas of life or in specific areas of life.
Lord Bless,
LT