Hebrews 6:4 - 6:6

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on July 9, 2014 at 11:18pm

"I believe that apostasy and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit aren't the same thing and apostasy can be forgiven."

I agree. However, often apostates refuse to repent. This is not for me to judge, but Christ alone; however I have great concern for those who "turn away from the Living God" to fables and myths and human inventions. The can have "the form of Godliness, denying the power thereof".

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 10, 2014 at 9:28am

Thanks, Scribe.


Apostasy is very serious and we should be concerned. The point I was attempting to make is that only one kind of sin is unforgivable. 

To my knowledge apostasy isn't limited to the act of completely renunciating the faith and fully abandoning Christ. It is right to say that people who are in a form of apostasy can also have the "form of Godliness, denying the power thereof" because apostasy is also true of someone who falls away from important truths that are essential doctrines. We should be concerned for anyone who refuses to repent after being enlightened by God, IMO. 

From this perspective, I see how even a true believer can fall into apostasy, (e.g. blending a new age religious concept into their Christian belief system) but I believe God will lead them back onto His path. I remember watching the noon day news one day quite a long time ago, and a nurse was being interviewed regarding a technique she was using to help cancer patients relax. She was wearing a cross necklace and speaking of prayer and Christian beliefs but then got into discussing Zen and its spiritual aspects. I could discern that she really thought it was OK to practice Zen and be a Christian, too. I understand that we can meditate upon God's Word and think upon whatsoever things are true and lovely, etcetera, but we must avoid the spiritual aspects and rituals of other religions that are not Christian. But not everyone knows that, especially those who are new to the faith, spiritual newborns. It's kind of like Paul's teaching about eating food offered to idols, I guess. We can become strong enough in our faith to where doing some stretches and breathing exercises to relax and meditating upon Scriptures and listening to worship and praise music is a blessing to us and a freedom in Christ to be enjoyed. But then we have to think about the weaker and being stumbling blocks to them. The main point is, once someone starts down a wrong path it can easily and eventually become total renunciation of the faith. Then I'd wonder if the person was saved to begin with.

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on July 10, 2014 at 2:34pm

Funny you should talk about this new age stuff. Watchman just posted a blog about this kind of thing & how they are trying to work it into our schools & in the minds of our children.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 10, 2014 at 3:31pm

Thanks, Tammy. It's a good topic that I've studied extensively and I've mentioned my memory of this woman before in a discussion on AAG, as far back as December 2012. Here is a link to that comment and my POV hasn't changed. I hope her post sheds light upon the paths of many. It's funny to me how, even though we have separation of church and state, religion seems to get worked into our schools anyway. http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/did-jesus-mean-that-the-tru...

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on July 10, 2014 at 4:28pm

Or out of it & replaced with whatever. Thanks for the link.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 10, 2014 at 5:23pm

You're welcome. Lots of lengthy replies in it :)

My POV about religion in schools I guess is controversial to many, but I'll share it anyway. I know that the way religious freedom and separation of church and state is now in America isn't the way the fathers of our nation wanted it to be, but because of the way things are now, I want to keep the separation of church and state, especially at this point in time, and I see it as a good thing because Christianity won't be the only religion that will be state-sanctioned if it ends, but all religions (and I know true Christianity is much more than a religion and is a relationship with God) will be opened up in our government. Plus, so many groups among Christianity aren't in alignment with the true gospel. So, I don't even want to imagine what our public schools would look like then. Arrive soon, Lord Jesus.

Janie, sorry for going off topic. I have nothing new to add to what you've asked. I hope you're OK. When you aren't as active as usual, I still get concerned. <3

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on July 10, 2014 at 5:44pm

That actually makes a lot of sense for sure. 

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on July 11, 2014 at 1:19am

Amanda, I think a person can have a false understanding, without necessarily being apostate. Most new believers are confused about a lot of stuff. If they are seeking and growing, they will mature and learn the truth and adhere to it eventually.

To me, an apostate is someone who knows what scripture says and just chooses to ignore it for sake of what is convenient, popular or easier. I have known some who have done that. It became too painful to admit that they were not following Christ and worshipping in spirit and truth, so they chose to stop believing or practicing the truth. To me, that is where apostasy comes in.

So it goes like this: you know that the Bible teaches that God answers prayer and that the Spirit restores and heals. Yet, you find that you are not getting answers to your prayers and not being healed. So, therefore you conclude that the message about restoration and healing ended with the Apostles because it isn't working for you. Why? because that is easier than finding out why God isn't answering *YOUR prayers.

I'm not an expert on the topic of apostasy at all.

I think this is where discernment comes in. We have to seek God through his Word and let Him teach us what we cannot find for ourselves. Sometimes Christians figure out the truth about something last, because they are so caught up in a cultural understanding that blinds them to what God tells us already in His word. Sort of like the Church arguing against Galileo about the earth orbiting the sun and denying the earth is round, when scripture reveals these things to us, which they simply were not aware of the passages showing it.

To me, it also sometimes seems that false religion gets some things right where Christians have missed what God was already telling us. And that's where many Christians fall prey. They see something that appears to be a nicer way to apply what they already know the Bible teaches and so they abandon essential truth and follow the more pleasant or popular version of what God has already said. They try somehow to apply it backward into their Christian experience. Or they add it to their Christian view, and begin to add all of the lies with it.

There is another danger, though. Which is to automatically rule something out simply because it comes from a person who comes from outside the Christian worldview. A lot of people get all spun up that Western Medicine practices are acceptable, but Eastern Medicine practices are not. Well, there's some things that Eastern Medicine has known about the human body for a thousand years that Western doctors are just starting to learn and study now.

Some Christians are afraid to go to a Chiropractor, because the notion of Chiropractics originated in eastern teachings. Ridiculous. Some people would rather have a nerve cut by a surgeon than have a bone adjusted that is out of place. Yet, that same person would crack their knuckles if a finger became jammed and would never consider having the nerve cut in their finger to make it stop hurting. But they will in their neck or back.

If you use meditation as a way to calm yourself and increase your breathing, it's all good. That is a simple part of learning self control. But... If you start humming the name of a pagan idol while you do it - you have serious trouble.

If we were to rule out a health practice because of where it originated, well then you couldn't take Aspirin. Because the Native Americans who worshipped the wind and the rain also were the ones who first discovered the pain relieving properties of the Willow Leaf, which is where Aspirin ultimately comes from.

So, I think the Christian must let the Word of God be our comprehensive guide to all things in life and simply use Biblical discernment to find what is Good, True, Right and Praiseworthy in the world.

*[NOTE: I'm saying You and Your in a totally generic sense, not picking on you personally. ]

You are definitely right in this observation: a lot of people think Jesus was just a teacher of Zen Buddhism which is to miss his message by a mile.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 11, 2014 at 9:30am

Well said, Scribe. We are in agreement. You've basically repeated my ideas. I have a friend who says "informed" Christians, and that's what I meant, too, when I said those who are new to the faith, spiritual newborns, might not know their freedoms in Christ. Saint Paul said this, too, in 1 Cor 8:7, "But not everyone possesses this knowledge."

As far as apostasy goes, when one denies an important essential truth of the Christian faith, such as the trinity, it is considered a form of apostasy. Arius is a good example, who began teaching Jesus was the highest of all creatures but not of the essence of God.

Thus, apostasy isn't limited to the act of completely renunciating the faith and fully abandoning Christ but apostasy is also true of someone who falls away from important truths that are essential doctrines.

One can be uninformed, absolutely. Yet, anyone who refuses to repent after being enlightened by God through Scriptures and through Holy Spirit or through someone preaching the truth about an important and essential doctrine, such as the deity of Christ, is actually denying part of the faith and denying Christ and may end up completely renunciating.  

I know by saying "you" and "your" you didn't mean me personally. Lol. All is good :)

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on July 10, 2014 at 2:32pm

Apostasy.

Turning against God, as evidenced by abandonment and repudiation of former beliefs. The term generally refers to a deliberate renouncing of the faith by a once sincere believer rather than a state of ignorance or mistaken knowledge. Apostasy is distinguished from heresy (denial of a part of the faith), and from transfer of allegiance from one religious body to another within the same faith. Also, it is possible to deny the faith, as Peter once did, and then at a later time reaffirm it.

Originally, “apostasy” meant literal rebellion. Thus the Jews were described as “rebels” against King Artaxerxes (1 Esd 2:23) and Jason as a “rebel against the laws” (2 Mc 5:6–8). OT descriptions of spiritual rebellion include departure from the Law, forsaking temple worship, and willful disobedience toward God himself (Jos 22:22, rebellion or unfaithful act; 2 Chr 29:19, transgression kjv, or faithlessness; Jer 2:19, backslidings kjv, or apostasy). The prophetic writings of Isaiah and Jeremiah provide many examples of Israel’s defections (Is 1:2–4; Jer 2:19). Israelite kings were often guilty of apostasy (Rehoboam—1 Kgs 14:22–24; Ahab—1 Kgs 16:30–33; Ahaziah—1 Kgs 22:51–53; Jehoram—2 Chr 21:6, 10; Ahaz—2 Chr 28:1–4; Manasseh—2 Chr 33:1–19; Amon—2 Chr 33:21–23).

In NT times many disciples withdrew from Christ (Jn 6:66), the most notorious example being Judas Iscariot. The Greek word from which “apostasy” is derived appears in only two passages. The apostle Paul was accused of apostasy for being “against the laws of Moses” (Acts 21:21 lb). Apostasy was given an eschatological significance in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Christians were warned not to be carried away and deceived in the widespread apostasy to come in the end times before the Lord’s return. That apostasy is linked to the rise of a “man of rebellion” who will be “Satan’s tool” (2 Thes 2:3–12 lb; cf. 1 Tm 4:1–3).

Many other NT passages, using different words, convey similar warnings. In the last days, tribulation and persecution will cause many to “fall away” (Mt. 24:9, 10); false prophets will arise and “lead many astray” (Mt 24:11). Other causes of apostasy include temptation (Lk 8:13) and unbelief (Heb 3:12). Paul cited Hymenaeus and Alexander as examples of those who had rejected the faith (1 Tm 1:20). The writer of Hebrews referred to those who had believed and then departed from the faith as being in a hopeless state with no possibility of further repentance (Heb 6:1–6). The consequences of willful sinning after receiving Christ are terrifying (Heb 10:26–31). The apostle Peter said that, for believers in Christ who knowingly turned away, “the last state has become worse for them than the first” (2 Pt 2:20–22). The apostle John addresses this same problem (1 Jn 2:18, 19).

Ten periods of persecution intensified the problem of apostasy during the first four centuries of the church’s existence. Repentance and public confession were required before offenders could be accepted again. The Roman emperor Julian (361–63) renounced the Christian faith and made such a vigorous effort to establish paganism in the empire that he became known as “the Apostate.” Apostasy continues to be a danger to the Christian church, especially where the church is undergoing persecution.

James D. Price and Luder G. Whitlock Jr

blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, an offense that Jesus identifies as an “eternal sin” that can never be forgiven (Mark 3:28–30). In the immediate context for this passage, the works of God performed by Jesus through the Holy Spirit are being attributed to the spirit of Beel-zebul (3:22). Those who identify the saving work of God as something evil commit a sin that is unpardonable because, ironically, the power they reject holds their only hope for pardon. See also blasphemy.

S.B./M.A.P.

I posted a Commentary & Dictionary but it was really interesting & I couldn't improvise it without cutting some of it out & didn't want to take any of it out. 

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Permalink Reply by marina on July 7, 2014 at 4:50pm

I was told by a friend who is Catholic that there is a whole chaoter missing out of our bible. Does anyone know if there is or not.

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Permalink Reply by 2968mctuuxavp on July 7, 2014 at 5:59pm

This has been an ongoing argument with many articles laying claim to different sides. I find one to be very good and simplistic at http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleStudyAndTheology/perspectives...

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