Hebrews 6:4 - 6:6

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by ribbon on June 30, 2014 at 5:10pm

I read some on Got Questions and they mentioned "intellectually" . I don't see this as meaning that though.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on June 30, 2014 at 9:39pm

Hi Janie,

This is one of those difficult passages in the Bible of which I've heard different interpretations expounded.

An intellectual belief...........possibly. An intellectual belief is superficial, and sure not a SPIRITUAL BELIEF.

An intellectual belief is what, or how the demons believe regarding God in James 2:19.

 My take on the passage above is likened to Jesus's parable in Matthew, Chapter 13. Some people start out "on fire for the Lord". Then the heat sets in (in various ways).........their belief is shallow, not well-rooted......and they fall away. Or they start out worshiping God........and the cares and concerns of the world choke out the person's faith.

And it is impossible to fall away, and come back to repentance again.........because what the person is doing is "crucifying Jesus again"......which is impossible.

What we're saying here is - THE PERSON DID NOT TRULY REPENT THE FIRST TIME.

The relationship with the Lord was not a real take. It looked good.....It sounded good.........it felt good, but it was not really good.

 In Acts 2:38, Peter's answer to  "What shall we do?'  was "REPENT! AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST..........".

This will do for starters..........

Grace and Peace.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on June 30, 2014 at 10:52pm

I have answered this same question here at least twice before. Perhaps I can look up the answer I gave in the past... LOL. The most important rule of all of Bible interpretation, ESPECIALLY for hard verses: Context. Please read the entire book, not just one passage out of context.

Notice who the book is written to: Hebrews. In otherwords, you cannot understand this book unless you see it from a Hebrew mindset. The writer is making a Rhetorical Argument - which is what Rabbinical teaching had mastered. Rhetoric is nowhere more common than Rabbinical teaching. Sometimes when Jesus used this frame of reference, it is called "hyperbole". Such as when Jesus suggests gouging out your eye or cutting off your hand (Matthew) "if" they cause you to sin (no ones eye or hand causes them to sin - their heart does). But that isn't really the right term. Rhetoric is the right term. Which is to say: you illustrate an absurd argument with absurdity.

Rest assured that the writer is not saying that it is impossible for anyone/someone to be saved. The meaning of this verse hinges on the word "IF". ...as in If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance.

Take for instance Judas. He fell away. But was he ever truly enlightened? I would argue not. If Judas had ever really understood who Jesus was, he would never have betrayed Him. He couldn't have. His problem was that he never really trusted/believed in Jesus for who He said He was.

Then take Peter for instance. He denied Jesus, but wept bitterly because HE KNEW that he was denying the "Christ, the son of the living God" to save his own skin. Yet he could not stay away from the other disciples and he could not stay away from Jesus. Yep, he blew it. Yep, he had sinned. But was his sin unpardonable? Of course not, which is why Jesus went out of his way to call and mention and restore Peter. Jesus never, for one second, had lost Peter. Peter had lost his nerve and he had lost his courage. But he knew that He had followed the Messiah/Christ. He had no doubt about that. And he knew that Jesus was his only hope of salvation.

So, what is the point of Hebrews 6? To make the point that if you ARE turning back to the Old Covenant (temple, sheep, sacrifices), then you ARENT saved. You aren't tasting of the heavenly gift, you are a mere hypocrite who is faking belief (trust) in the Savior. The extension to the modern person (who can't go to the Temple since it's been gone for some 1860 years), is that if you are trusting in anything other than the completed work of Christ on the Cross, then you are even more deceived. For if the Old Covenant has passed away (which had binding clauses and was ratified in the Presence of Almighty God and his Angels on Sinai), then what in the world are you going to trust in today? Your good works? Good luck. Your sincerity? Sincerely not.

Trusting in the completed work of Christ alone is able to save you. Period. Full stop. God has nothing more to offer you. That is the entire meaning of the book of Hebrews. It makes that entire point 12 different ways, in a Hebrew context. You have to know your Old Testament to fully appreciate that fact.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on July 2, 2014 at 6:45am

Scribe,

This is in alignment with what I believe.

Lord Bless,

LT

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on July 9, 2014 at 11:41pm

Thanks LT, I really appreciate your comment.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 2, 2014 at 8:44am

Scribe,

I like this comment: "So, what is the point of Hebrews 6? To make the point that if you ARE turning back to the Old Covenant (temple, sheep, sacrifices), then you ARENT saved. You aren't tasting of the heavenly gift, you are a mere hypocrite who is faking belief (trust) in the Savior."

Some interpret these verses to say that people can get very close to being born again, but turn away, and then can never be brought back to that point but will only fall deeper and deeper into unbelief. I, personally, was taught that it means being born again but losing salvation and once lost, that was the end of it, but the sign of having lost it was becoming apostate and never wanting to repent anyway even though repentance then was impossible. I thought I had reached that point once, but a few weeks later I became very remoreseful.

It is a tough passage. I think now that if we could fall away after becoming born again, all would fall away. It is because He keeps us and won't let us go that we don't.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tammy on July 1, 2014 at 12:27pm

Janie, I've read about a trillion commentaries on this since you've posted it as well as many of the LOGOS 5 Bible studies & books I have with that software - and I have the pastor edition & we renew it all the time so there is a gazillion explanations on it. I've read it many times before but never really thought about it. I must say that the smartest theologians & Bible commentaries have said this is one of the most difficult of scriptures to interpret. They talk about verbs being present, past-participle & all of those English terms I never learned. I'm still reading up on it though. This one is a whopper. lolol

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ribbon on July 2, 2014 at 10:12pm

Thank you Amanda , I will reread what you wrote a later time also.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ribbon on July 1, 2014 at 6:38pm

Thank y'all for yalls take on these verses.   After reading the comments here, I started to read Hebrews in its entirety , so I got online again and different Hebrew chapter links cme up so I clicked on one and then  Hebrews 10:26 - 31 came up. I read these verses and now its like I have been kicked in the gut. I knew I had failed God , never doubted that. But I cant see how reading other verses can take away from the verse meaning. To me this verse 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

means that it is "impossible" no chance lost chance  I messed up and lost out kind of meaning..

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

means .. tasted ... knew  and felt and believed the good word and believed what was coming. I believed these things and belive I tasted

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

6) to me  means , since I fell away it was like me myself was crucifying in my mind and heart the Son of God... Jesus.... and shamed him openly with my hateful and angered actions. I cannot see this any other way and then chapter 10?? 

It seems every single time I try to begin to start learning about the Lord again ... I get a swift kick in the rear... but this makes me lose any hope I had ever had.  YES I am pouting and big time. Beyond pouting..... Im thinking Im doomed for hell fire no matter what.

Hebrews 10:26-31King James Version (KJV)

²⁶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

²⁷ But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

²⁸ He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

²⁹ Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

³⁰ For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

³¹ It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on July 2, 2014 at 1:38am

You have to consider the "sin" which the book is speaking of. Go back to the first three chapters and read them as one complete thought - in the context of this being written to the Hebrew people of the first century. The people to whom Peter spoke on the Day of Pentecost. The sin spoken of here is the Sin of Unbelief. 

Then consider this passage from Heb 3:7-19

" 7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:

'Today, if you hear his voice,
8     do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
    during the time of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested and tried me,
    though for forty years they saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
    I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
    and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
    ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ 

12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called 'Today,' so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.15 As has just been said:

'Today, if you hear his voice,
    do not harden your hearts
    as you did in the rebellion.'

16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief. "

What was the unbelief in the wilderness? The unbelief when they worshiped the Golden Calf; the unbelief when they refused to believe God would take them into the promised land (Remember Joshua, Caleb and the ten faithless spies). So God said 'fine die in the desert... your kids will go in without you' (my paraphrase). Go back and read the Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy. You will see that Moses was constantly confounded and frustrated by the unbelief of the Israelites. And just when he was ready to give up on them, he found himself pleading for God's mercy on them because of His Namesake (Moses wanted the nations to know the Glory of Yahweh). 

How does that apply to the people who originally received this book? They were unwilling to accept that Christ had fulfilled the criteria of Messiah, that He had brought a new covenant, an eternal covenant that replaced the old one and made it "Obsolete".

See Hebrews 8:13

" 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. "

Did it disappear? Absolutely. In 70 AD Roman General Titus destroyed the temple completely, having his legions turn over every single stone to retrieve the gold that had melted between them when the temple was burned down. All of the artifacts that were not melted down were carried off to Rome, which is commemorated on the Arch of Titus as spoils of war. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_of_Titus)

You can't fulfill the Covenant of Moses without a temple, without a red heifer, without a golden lampstand, without the table of showbread, without the brazen laver and without the Ark of the Covenant. So, from 70 AD until now, there has been no way that anyone could fulfill the duties of the Priesthood and without a priesthood you have no sacrifices to fulfill the covenant. 

Why did God allow His Holy Temple to be destroyed? Because Jesus is the mediator of a New Covenant. He is the High Priest of an Eternal Covenant which can never be rendered obsolete because He stands in Heaven as a priest forever. 

There were Hebrew people who had turned to Jesus in the first century without faith/belief who were turning back to Temple worship; hedging their bets so to speak. This book was written to bring them back to Jesus as the one and only sacrifice, the one and only mediator of the New Covenant. The author is saying "if you go back to the Temple, the Mosaic Covenant, the Aaronic Priests then you are saying that Jesus' sacrifice was insufficient. You are trampling his blood under foot as meaningless."  So therefore they were guilty of a greater offense than their ancestors had committed during the Exodus. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ribbon on July 2, 2014 at 10:07pm

Thank you , Scribe.... I will go back and start reading Hebrews from the beginning as you suggest.  I haven't read anything today , lots of loud popper crackers all over the place outside, night and day.  I will reread what you wrote too. I appreciate your time in helping me with this.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on July 9, 2014 at 11:52pm

You're welcome. When you feel like Jesus may abandon  you (which Satan wants you to believe) go to what Jesus himself said about you and I and all those who turn to Him, in John Chapters 14 - 17. He confidently prays over us all, in Chapter 17. He says twice in Ch 14 that He wants us to have peace because of His promises.

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• …
• 9
• Next ›
• Page